New VA trans policies for schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This policy says that teachers can’t use nicknames without parent permission. I know this is aimed at trans kids. But wouldn’t that also mean that every time a kid named William asks to be called Will the teachers have get parental approval?

No, because Will is a commonly used nickname for William.

Now, if your kid has a nickname that is not commonly substituted, you will need parental approval. Thanh goes by Lucy? Better have permission on file before you use her nickname.

School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record. Nothing in this policy shall prevent [School Division] personnel from using a different name for a student when it is necessary for the student’s academic instruction, such as using a name more common in a foreign country while in a foreign-language course.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have an uncommon name so my nickname was also uncommon (as does my son). Would teachers have been prohibited from calling me by that name? What about kids that go by their middle name? Many nicknames “stick” from the time a child is a young kid and that becomes their identity. Who has time for this non-sense? Our local high school has over 4,000 students. I can’t imagine teachers wasting time evaluating each nickname to determine whether or not it conforms to this absurd rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This policy says that teachers can’t use nicknames without parent permission. I know this is aimed at trans kids. But wouldn’t that also mean that every time a kid named William asks to be called Will the teachers have get parental approval?

No, because Will is a commonly used nickname for William.

Now, if your kid has a nickname that is not commonly substituted, you will need parental approval. Thanh goes by Lucy? Better have permission on file before you use her nickname.

School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record. Nothing in this policy shall prevent [School Division] personnel from using a different name for a student when it is necessary for the student’s academic instruction, such as using a name more common in a foreign country while in a foreign-language course.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have an uncommon name so my nickname was also uncommon (as does my son). Would teachers have been prohibited from calling me by that name? What about kids that go by their middle name? Many nicknames “stick” from the time a child is a young kid and that becomes their identity. Who has time for this non-sense? Our local high school has over 4,000 students. I can’t imagine teachers wasting time evaluating each nickname to determine whether or not it conforms to this absurd rule.

Who decides “commonly associated “? Is there an official list? Can Katherine be Kitty or only Kate?
What an idiotic rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This policy says that teachers can’t use nicknames without parent permission. I know this is aimed at trans kids. But wouldn’t that also mean that every time a kid named William asks to be called Will the teachers have get parental approval?

No, because Will is a commonly used nickname for William.

Now, if your kid has a nickname that is not commonly substituted, you will need parental approval. Thanh goes by Lucy? Better have permission on file before you use her nickname.

School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record. Nothing in this policy shall prevent [School Division] personnel from using a different name for a student when it is necessary for the student’s academic instruction, such as using a name more common in a foreign country while in a foreign-language course.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have an uncommon name so my nickname was also uncommon (as does my son). Would teachers have been prohibited from calling me by that name? What about kids that go by their middle name? Many nicknames “stick” from the time a child is a young kid and that becomes their identity. Who has time for this non-sense? Our local high school has over 4,000 students. I can’t imagine teachers wasting time evaluating each nickname to determine whether or not it conforms to this absurd rule.

PP here.
I agree.

Yes, it seems so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

Agree. These rules seem fine. Parents parent their children, not schools. Schools only have children for part of the day while parents have their children 100%.

And here comes the parents rights contingent. We see you.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you trying to say parents of minor children shouldn’t be made aware of socio-medical changes in their children that occur at school? Because that’s kind of what it comes down to.

Medical?

Mental health is medical?

Being gender non conforming is not a mental illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP. I wonder if there is a way to allow for judgment based on likelihood of medical intervention. I don’t think it’s workable to ask teachers to not call kids by their preferred names, just on a practical basis. And, I think it’s good for kids to have an outlet to experiment with identity. Who cares if Rebecca wants to be called Rex by her favorite teacher?

However, I also think it’s very problematic for schools to hide full gender transitions from parents, because of the medicalized potential outcomes. A parent can’t just find out their kid has adopted a trans identity when the child demands puberty blockers. That’s too late, and by then the child has probably absorbed a bunch of overtly wrong propaganda about medical transition. There is just so much coming out about how much misleading medical information has been promoted in the name of gender affirmative care. (Personally, given how things are going, I think that medicalized transition for youth is well on its way to being the lobotomy of our times.) It isn’t right for parents to only find out after their child has absorbed enormous amounts of misinformation about medical transitions.

Maybe there could be a judgment call: parents are notified when authorities at the school think the transition is enough that the child may ask for medical intervention. Idk, just thinking out loud and trying to bridge a tricky problem.

Mom of trans child again here. I want to address this post because I feel that you are trying to understand and come from a good place, but I also think you are doing harm to families and have some misinformation. First, to be clear, parents always control the decision and pace of any medical transition in any minor. A child who waits to inform parents would not be able to get medical transition and would have to wait longer because they would not have completed the pretransition steps that are required such as therapy and living full time in the gender. In any event, your concern would exist whether or not the child is outted by the school because all this policy will do is to make kids keep it to themselves longer rather than talk about it at school (none of which prevents them from doing their online research if they want).

Second, as a family facing this challenge and whose child has medically transitioned, please realize that the off hand comments like comparisons to lobotomies are extremely hurtful to us. Believe me, I did not want to have a child in this situation and was skeptical and questioning. We are doing the best we can and making decisions the best we can with love for our children at the forefront of it. We have relied on the expertise of medical professionals at the most respected medical institutions throughout. To suggest that we have (either deliberately or through stupidity) hurt our kids when you don't know that and to use the example of something that destroys people's personalities is simply mean. My child is still (and always will be) a wonderful person regardless of his body and we have always acted with the best intentions to do the best by him. If that turns out over the course of his life to be the wrong decision, I will be sad but at least I will know that we did the best we could. I would ask that you consider whether you have the same feelings about schools reporting kids when they or teachers know that the parents would likely refuse to accept their trans children or would kick out a child or (god forbid) abuse that child.

I’m the PP. Thanks for the thoughtful response. You have given me a lot to think about.

I do want to say one thing: nobody (well, nobody who isn’t insane) can ever doubt the love and caring of parents who followed the expertise and advice of the physicians who recommended medicalized transition for their children. NOBODY. I think there are a lot of questions as to how we ended up where we are now in the US, but that’s not at all a reflection of the dedication and love of parents like you for their kids. Those questions have to do with a profit-driven medical system, and are not at all about the clear and obvious love parents have for their trans kids. You are clearly and obviously a wonderful parent who had done the best possible for their child.

When I use the analogy to lobotomy, I was thinking more about the systemic faults that allowed the lobotomy to ever exist in the first place. The systemic failure that permitted the lobotomy also happened other widespread medical treatments that turned out to be very harmful overall but that started with positive and good intent: for instance, opioid clinics, or thalidomide. And it is those systemic failures that are alarming.

But I appreciate that it’s painful to hear the comparison as a parent as a trans kid, and I am not in your shoes. So, I won’t use that comparison any more. I think that there must be a way to talk rationally about some of the systemic failures in gender affirming care without comparing gender affirming care to lobotomies. And, as you correctly observe, there isn’t a loss of personality with medicalized gender affirmative care, so it’s probably a sloppy analogy anyhow even if my intent was only to talk about the systemic failures I see in both. In any event, I won’t use the comparison again.

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of teachers putting themselves forward as trusted adults with the idea of keeping secrets from parents. “Don’t tell your parents” is the prime directive of all abusers, and I’ve been uncomfortable for years with the increasingly aggressive bent towards that position that I’ve seen from schools. It does feel like there is the potential for enormous abuse here, and I don’t know how to manage that. I don’t think these rules are workable for teachers, but I also think that some schools across the country have really overstepped their boundaries.

Thanks again for the thoughtful answer. I’m not sure we will agree on everything, but I won’t use the comparison to lobotomies again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Call me archaic, but parents are responsible for their children and their children’s mental health more than the schools.
I don’t care what pronouns are used my nickname used, but if a parent inquires, or something is hidden from a parent, the school has overstepped its boundaries.

Agreed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

Agree. These rules seem fine. Parents parent their children, not schools. Schools only have children for part of the day while parents have their children 100%.

And here comes the parents rights contingent. We see you.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you trying to say parents of minor children shouldn’t be made aware of socio-medical changes in their children that occur at school? Because that’s kind of what it comes down to.

Medical?

Mental health is medical?

A kid asking to go by Chris instead of Christine is not medical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any school districts responded yet?

From Superintendent Duran's twitter: "We are currently reviewing the model policies. I oppose any policy that infringes upon the rights of our students and threatens the safety and well-being of our LGBTQIA+ students. APS will continue to uphold our core mission and policies to ensure that every child receives equal educational access and opportunities. We fully support our transgender and LGBTQIA+ students and value the many diverse identities within our schools, where every student can authentically express themselves. As it stands now, our current PIPs in support of transgender and gender fluid students and staff remain fully in effect."

No mention of parents

I noticed that too. No mention of parents or families.

He’s in charge of a school district responding to how the school district will address this. Why would parents be involved in that statement?

As a teacher and a parent it’s funny to me how some parents want allllll the credit and consideration for their kids with stuff like this but the second their kid has behavior issues or can’t read they often want to put that back on the school. So I have to personally run it by you apparently if your kid asks to go by a nickname but when I need you to help them with reading at home, that’s my job and I need to do it and not expect you to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

Agree. These rules seem fine. Parents parent their children, not schools. Schools only have children for part of the day while parents have their children 100%.

And here comes the parents rights contingent. We see you.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you trying to say parents of minor children shouldn’t be made aware of socio-medical changes in their children that occur at school? Because that’s kind of what it comes down to.

Medical?

Mental health is medical?

Being gender non conforming is not a mental illness.

And being gender non conforming is not the same as being transgender or gender dysphoric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

Agree. These rules seem fine. Parents parent their children, not schools. Schools only have children for part of the day while parents have their children 100%.

And here comes the parents rights contingent. We see you.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you trying to say parents of minor children shouldn’t be made aware of socio-medical changes in their children that occur at school? Because that’s kind of what it comes down to.

Medical?

Mental health is medical?

Being gender non conforming is not a mental illness.

And being gender non conforming is not the same as being transgender or gender dysphoric.

And teachers don’t need to determine which of these a kid falls into to just use the name the kid asks to go by. These policies make routine human interactions difficult for no damn reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any school districts responded yet?

From Superintendent Duran's twitter: "We are currently reviewing the model policies. I oppose any policy that infringes upon the rights of our students and threatens the safety and well-being of our LGBTQIA+ students. APS will continue to uphold our core mission and policies to ensure that every child receives equal educational access and opportunities. We fully support our transgender and LGBTQIA+ students and value the many diverse identities within our schools, where every student can authentically express themselves. As it stands now, our current PIPs in support of transgender and gender fluid students and staff remain fully in effect."

No mention of parents

I noticed that too. No mention of parents or families.

He’s in charge of a school district responding to how the school district will address this. Why would parents be involved in that statement?

As a teacher and a parent it’s funny to me how some parents want allllll the credit and consideration for their kids with stuff like this but the second their kid has behavior issues or can’t read they often want to put that back on the school. So I have to personally run it by you apparently if your kid asks to go by a nickname but when I need you to help them with reading at home, that’s my job and I need to do it and not expect you to help.

Some parents in Arlington consider him and teachers to be their personal servants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

Agree. These rules seem fine. Parents parent their children, not schools. Schools only have children for part of the day while parents have their children 100%.

And here comes the parents rights contingent. We see you.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you trying to say parents of minor children shouldn’t be made aware of socio-medical changes in their children that occur at school? Because that’s kind of what it comes down to.

Medical?

Mental health is medical?

Being gender non conforming is not a mental illness.

And being gender non conforming is not the same as being transgender or gender dysphoric.

Gender nonconforming, non binary, gender fluid, etc sometimes fall under the transgender umbrella. But the language itself is fluid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

This also though prevents bio girls from competing on bio boys teams. Meanwhile they get misgendered on bio girls teams because they have transitioned and look like "boys". Arlington Karens asking why there's a boy on the team LOUDLY. This happens all the time.

Yes. The anti trans people don't want trans kids to be anywhere. They are just supposed to "conform" or disappear I guess.

Or just select a gender appropriate sport where they are good enough to make the team.

What’s a gender appropriate sport? If a person born female is good enough to make the boys team, these rules don’t allow her to be on the team.

Is this true? I honestly don't 'know. When I was in HS in the late 90s we had a girl on our football team. Can girls not try out for boys teams at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

This also though prevents bio girls from competing on bio boys teams. Meanwhile they get misgendered on bio girls teams because they have transitioned and look like "boys". Arlington Karens asking why there's a boy on the team LOUDLY. This happens all the time.

Yes. The anti trans people don't want trans kids to be anywhere. They are just supposed to "conform" or disappear I guess.

Or just select a gender appropriate sport where they are good enough to make the team.

What’s a gender appropriate sport? If a person born female is good enough to make the boys team, these rules don’t allow her to be on the team.

Is this true? I honestly don't 'know. When I was in HS in the late 90s we had a girl on our football team. Can girls not try out for boys teams at all?

Yes they can. There is a girl on the football team at the high school I teach at. The issue seems to be if they are a girl who identifies as a boy and tries out as a trans boy. THEN it’s a no no 🙄

[Anonymous]

Does this have any teeth? It’s not legislation, just “guidelines”.

“ During this year’s legislative session, two bills related to the treatment of transgender students in schools survived a floor vote in the Republican-controlled House, marking the first time that measures targeting transgender youths have been passed by a Virginia legislative chamber.

Senate Democrats defeated both bills, one that would have required students in public schools to compete in sports under the gender they were assigned at birth, and another that would have required school administrators to notify parents if a child identified as a gender different from their biological sex.”

And the bolded should be scary for anyone who isn’t anti-LGBTQ (or a misogynist).

It’s critical that the Ds retain the state senate.