Utah elementary and middle schools ban the Bible for "vulgarity and violence"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Nah. Kids aren’t really reading much anymore, much less curious about the news to find out what the fuss is about for themselves. If it happens to show up in one of their social media feeds/dms they’ll ask chatGPT to summarize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Nah. Kids aren’t really reading much anymore, much less curious about the news to find out what the fuss is about for themselves. If it happens to show up in one of their social media feeds/dms they’ll ask chatGPT to summarize.

Sorry your kids don’t read. Mine do, as do their friends.

One of the great joys of childhood was bucking parental controls over what we were exposed to. I remember giggling with a friend in 7th grade over her parents’ copy of the Joy of Sex. How many of us got our hands on inappropriate material and survived? Raise your hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Nah. Kids aren’t really reading much anymore, much less curious about the news to find out what the fuss is about for themselves. If it happens to show up in one of their social media feeds/dms they’ll ask chatGPT to summarize.

Well no wonder book bans come so easily to conservatives. They don't actually value reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Nah. Kids aren’t really reading much anymore, much less curious about the news to find out what the fuss is about for themselves. If it happens to show up in one of their social media feeds/dms they’ll ask chatGPT to summarize.

Well no wonder book bans come so easily to conservatives. They don't actually value reading.

That is correct. Most don't read, it's performative.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why do people here keep referring to “book bans” when what has happened is that a book is age-limited. Is this some political styling to score points against your adversaries or do you sincerely not know what the word “ban” means?

Precisely this. No books have been banned. They are placed only in age-appropriate settings. Huge difference.

So younger kids are banned from reading them?

Don't you worry, your kids will have all the lewd, pornographic books they can get their hands on once they reach high school. Maybe even middle school. Or, you know, feel free to buy them yourself and have a really wholesome story hour with your own kids. Knock yourself out.

LOL that you think the books being pulled from schools are "pornographic." I mean yes, the Bible does have some pretty sexualized stuff in it for sure.

Did you keep your kids from PG movies until they were 18?

If you think Gender Queer, Lawn Boy, This Book is Gay, etc. are the equivalent of PG, then we have nothing further to discuss.

What is wrong with This Book is Gay? Have you ever read it??

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/

Educate yourself.

It sounds like a book about how sex works except it specifically talks about how gay sex works. So?

Feel free to buy this book for your own kid. Or get it from the public library for your own kid.

You don't get it. If libraries have books about how heterosexual sex happens - One was given out in my fifth grade sex ed class 30 years ago which talked about that hetero sex, masturbation, and more - why can't a book talk about how gay sex works?

So you’re ok with a book that also gives tips about how to meet men on Grindr? See, with every word you write, it’s blindingly obvious that you actually *want* kids to be exposed to inappropriate sexual material. Sure, they can find all of this online if they’re so inclined. How on earth does that make it ok for schools to willingly provide this garbage to them? Your views are so out of the norm that there’s really no point in engaging further.

Again, the sexual emission of horses is something Christians are pushing on our kids.

Sorry - who exactly is pushing the Bible on anyone, let alone your kids?

Christians mostly.

Really? How so? Who has forced your kids to read the Bible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Great. At least we don't have school administrators and librarians willing to help them access inappropriate material. I know that disappoints you.

No. The fact that you didn't realize this before you started banning books disappoints me.

It's common sense if you are a teacher, administrator or librarian. If a book is assigned to students, they typically don't want to read it. If you tell them it is banned, they immediately want to read it.

If educators were able to indoctrinate students like you like, test scores would be sky high and kids wouldn't have to be forced to read.

No one has to ‘tell them it’s banned’ unless there’s an agenda. Just don’t have the books available.

So now, in addition to telling everyone what you think is appropriate for libraries, you expect to silence parents from talking to their own children about the dangers of book banning? Because that has some sort of agenda? I talked to my kids from when they were 2 years old about how lucky they are to read whatever they wanted. And that back in the day, people couldn’t read. And when people did learn to read, they were banned from reading certain things. It is something we have talked about all their lives.

DP. And did you hand your two year old books about gay sex (or sex in general) and how to hook up on Grindr? If not, why? If so… why?

Nope I didn’t hand my kids books about sex, gay or otherwise. Because I made the choice for my kids on how I want to parent. You are free to do the same.

Here’s what I didn’t do. Rally to make sure libraries didn’t have books on sex, even when they could be accessed by my 2 year old. I had fairly high confidence in my parenting (and my child’s literacy 😀) that even if they came across something I wouldnt have chosen, I can handle it and use it as a learning opportunity.

That is the issue here. You believe your 10 year old shouldn’t be exposed to some material so you don’t want it in the school library. I believe you should tell your kids what you do and don’t want them doing and why. But not lecture me if I don’t care if my 10 year old sees that material. And as has been pointed out before, the books you really have issue with are not generally in elementary school libraries. So in effect you want to control what my 16 year old can find in her school library. Which is all kinds of crazy.

Again: no one is stopping you from buying these books yourself or checking them out at the public library. You could accumulate an extensive home library of sexual topics, specifically curated for your own (poor) kids. Leave the rest of us out of it.

What problem are you trying to solve here? Are your kids sneaking books from the school library that you don’t like as elementary school kids? Because honestly that has never been an issue in my household.

My kid brought home a story about a kid who was going on some sort of adventure but happened to have gay dads in 3rd grade from the school library. The gay dads was most certainly not the point of the book. We are a boring heterosexual family with nobody in our extended family involved in homosexual relationships that I am aware of. The book was an awesome opportunity for my kid to bring up questions about two dad families and for me to talk about our family values. It would have been a lost opportunity if such books were banned.

But that isn't the kind of book we're talking about (as you know), so that's quite a strawman. We're discussing books that graphically - and inappropriately - discuss sex acts and instruct children on how to access Grindr, what its purpose is, etc. We're not talking about Larlo who happens to have two dads.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people here keep referring to “book bans” when what has happened is that a book is age-limited. Is this some political styling to score points against your adversaries or do you sincerely not know what the word “ban” means?

Precisely this. No books have been banned. They are placed only in age-appropriate settings. Huge difference.

So younger kids are banned from reading them?

Don't you worry, your kids will have all the lewd, pornographic books they can get their hands on once they reach high school. Maybe even middle school. Or, you know, feel free to buy them yourself and have a really wholesome story hour with your own kids. Knock yourself out.

LOL that you think the books being pulled from schools are "pornographic." I mean yes, the Bible does have some pretty sexualized stuff in it for sure.

Did you keep your kids from PG movies until they were 18?

If you think Gender Queer, Lawn Boy, This Book is Gay, etc. are the equivalent of PG, then we have nothing further to discuss.

What is wrong with This Book is Gay? Have you ever read it??

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/

Educate yourself.

It sounds like a book about how sex works except it specifically talks about how gay sex works. So?

Feel free to buy this book for your own kid. Or get it from the public library for your own kid.

You don't get it. If libraries have books about how heterosexual sex happens - One was given out in my fifth grade sex ed class 30 years ago which talked about that hetero sex, masturbation, and more - why can't a book talk about how gay sex works?

Because heterosexual sex can result in pregnancy and it makes sense to educate kids (though I think it should be done via a class and nurse). Gay sex does not.

I understand that’s what you think. But why should our policy be based on what you think alone?

Ask yourself the same question.
DP

Because generally in our society, we don’t try to censor stuff and allow individuals to make choices from themselves and their children. The burden of proof is really on those who wish to ban stuff - whether it’s a book about two mommies or the Bible.

Wrong. The burden of proof is on the parents who want their kids to be exposed to these books. Get them yourself.

Wouldnt this just mean we should get rid of all school libraries?

Only if you’re so simpleminded you actually can’t figure out what “age-appropriate” means.

Who gets to decide what is age appropriate?

I read stuff in middle school that a lot of conservative parents would raise hell over. My parents were pretty liberal and had no problems with whatever we read. They were stricter about letting us get into video games or the films we could watch.

Those books did not lead me to the dark side, by the way.

And many families are lenient about the movies their kids watch, but more strict about the books they read - this isn't about your particular upbringing. It's simply about common sense. Public schools are not the place for graphically sexual books - OR movies. Not sure how you could possibly argue otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Great. At least we don't have school administrators and librarians willing to help them access inappropriate material. I know that disappoints you.

No. The fact that you didn't realize this before you started banning books disappoints me.

It's common sense if you are a teacher, administrator or librarian. If a book is assigned to students, they typically don't want to read it. If you tell them it is banned, they immediately want to read it.

If educators were able to indoctrinate students like you like, test scores would be sky high and kids wouldn't have to be forced to read.

No one has to ‘tell them it’s banned’ unless there’s an agenda. Just don’t have the books available.

So now, in addition to telling everyone what you think is appropriate for libraries, you expect to silence parents from talking to their own children about the dangers of book banning? Because that has some sort of agenda? I talked to my kids from when they were 2 years old about how lucky they are to read whatever they wanted. And that back in the day, people couldn’t read. And when people did learn to read, they were banned from reading certain things. It is something we have talked about all their lives.

DP. And did you hand your two year old books about gay sex (or sex in general) and how to hook up on Grindr? If not, why? If so… why?

Nope I didn’t hand my kids books about sex, gay or otherwise. Because I made the choice for my kids on how I want to parent. You are free to do the same.

Here’s what I didn’t do. Rally to make sure libraries didn’t have books on sex, even when they could be accessed by my 2 year old. I had fairly high confidence in my parenting (and my child’s literacy 😀) that even if they came across something I wouldnt have chosen, I can handle it and use it as a learning opportunity.

That is the issue here. You believe your 10 year old shouldn’t be exposed to some material so you don’t want it in the school library. I believe you should tell your kids what you do and don’t want them doing and why. But not lecture me if I don’t care if my 10 year old sees that material. And as has been pointed out before, the books you really have issue with are not generally in elementary school libraries. So in effect you want to control what my 16 year old can find in her school library. Which is all kinds of crazy.

Again: no one is stopping you from buying these books yourself or checking them out at the public library. You could accumulate an extensive home library of sexual topics, specifically curated for your own (poor) kids. Leave the rest of us out of it.

You sound like you're a member of the Sacred Congregation of the Index.

Who spurred tons of kids to sneak books out of their public libraries, including my grandpa. Nothing like spouting off about naughty books to make kids want to read them!!

Odd post, but ok. Like most kids, I too snuck inappropriate books when I was younger. I would find them at public libraries, bookstores, or the homes of friends. They were NOT available for me to just pick up in my school library, however. Why? Because clearly parents and administrators had far more common sense than they currently do.

And nowadays, of course, kids can easily access this material online. We all know that. That doesn't mean schools should be actively placing these books in their libraries for kids to get their hands on easily. And again - the discussion is about graphically sexual books, so don't bother with more silly strawmen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Nah. Kids aren’t really reading much anymore, much less curious about the news to find out what the fuss is about for themselves. If it happens to show up in one of their social media feeds/dms they’ll ask chatGPT to summarize.

Well no wonder book bans come so easily to conservatives. They don't actually value reading.

Oh, BS. Grow up. If I recall, liberals were the ones who wanted (and probably still want) to ban books like Huckleberry Finn, Tom Sawyer, Uncle Tom's Cabin, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc. You know - the classics.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Great. At least we don't have school administrators and librarians willing to help them access inappropriate material. I know that disappoints you.

No. The fact that you didn't realize this before you started banning books disappoints me.

It's common sense if you are a teacher, administrator or librarian. If a book is assigned to students, they typically don't want to read it. If you tell them it is banned, they immediately want to read it.

If educators were able to indoctrinate students like you like, test scores would be sky high and kids wouldn't have to be forced to read.

No one has to ‘tell them it’s banned’ unless there’s an agenda. Just don’t have the books available.

So now, in addition to telling everyone what you think is appropriate for libraries, you expect to silence parents from talking to their own children about the dangers of book banning? Because that has some sort of agenda? I talked to my kids from when they were 2 years old about how lucky they are to read whatever they wanted. And that back in the day, people couldn’t read. And when people did learn to read, they were banned from reading certain things. It is something we have talked about all their lives.

DP. And did you hand your two year old books about gay sex (or sex in general) and how to hook up on Grindr? If not, why? If so… why?

Nope I didn’t hand my kids books about sex, gay or otherwise. Because I made the choice for my kids on how I want to parent. You are free to do the same.

Here’s what I didn’t do. Rally to make sure libraries didn’t have books on sex, even when they could be accessed by my 2 year old. I had fairly high confidence in my parenting (and my child’s literacy 😀) that even if they came across something I wouldnt have chosen, I can handle it and use it as a learning opportunity.

That is the issue here. You believe your 10 year old shouldn’t be exposed to some material so you don’t want it in the school library. I believe you should tell your kids what you do and don’t want them doing and why. But not lecture me if I don’t care if my 10 year old sees that material. And as has been pointed out before, the books you really have issue with are not generally in elementary school libraries. So in effect you want to control what my 16 year old can find in her school library. Which is all kinds of crazy.

Again: no one is stopping you from buying these books yourself or checking them out at the public library. You could accumulate an extensive home library of sexual topics, specifically curated for your own (poor) kids. Leave the rest of us out of it.

What problem are you trying to solve here? Are your kids sneaking books from the school library that you don’t like as elementary school kids? Because honestly that has never been an issue in my household.

My kid brought home a story about a kid who was going on some sort of adventure but happened to have gay dads in 3rd grade from the school library. The gay dads was most certainly not the point of the book. We are a boring heterosexual family with nobody in our extended family involved in homosexual relationships that I am aware of. The book was an awesome opportunity for my kid to bring up questions about two dad families and for me to talk about our family values. It would have been a lost opportunity if such books were banned.

But that isn't the kind of book we're talking about (as you know), so that's quite a strawman. We're discussing books that graphically - and inappropriately - discuss sex acts and instruct children on how to access Grindr, what its purpose is, etc. We're not talking about Larlo who happens to have two dads.

In elementary school? The books listed in this thread were never about elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, the idiots banning everything have just given all the kids a handy reading list of everything their parents don't want them to read.

You know they are going to be reading all this, as soon as they can get their hands on a copy, when they probably would have never read it in the school library.

Great. At least we don't have school administrators and librarians willing to help them access inappropriate material. I know that disappoints you.

No. The fact that you didn't realize this before you started banning books disappoints me.

It's common sense if you are a teacher, administrator or librarian. If a book is assigned to students, they typically don't want to read it. If you tell them it is banned, they immediately want to read it.

If educators were able to indoctrinate students like you like, test scores would be sky high and kids wouldn't have to be forced to read.

No one has to ‘tell them it’s banned’ unless there’s an agenda. Just don’t have the books available.

So now, in addition to telling everyone what you think is appropriate for libraries, you expect to silence parents from talking to their own children about the dangers of book banning? Because that has some sort of agenda? I talked to my kids from when they were 2 years old about how lucky they are to read whatever they wanted. And that back in the day, people couldn’t read. And when people did learn to read, they were banned from reading certain things. It is something we have talked about all their lives.

DP. And did you hand your two year old books about gay sex (or sex in general) and how to hook up on Grindr? If not, why? If so… why?

Nope I didn’t hand my kids books about sex, gay or otherwise. Because I made the choice for my kids on how I want to parent. You are free to do the same.

Here’s what I didn’t do. Rally to make sure libraries didn’t have books on sex, even when they could be accessed by my 2 year old. I had fairly high confidence in my parenting (and my child’s literacy 😀) that even if they came across something I wouldnt have chosen, I can handle it and use it as a learning opportunity.

That is the issue here. You believe your 10 year old shouldn’t be exposed to some material so you don’t want it in the school library. I believe you should tell your kids what you do and don’t want them doing and why. But not lecture me if I don’t care if my 10 year old sees that material. And as has been pointed out before, the books you really have issue with are not generally in elementary school libraries. So in effect you want to control what my 16 year old can find in her school library. Which is all kinds of crazy.

Again: no one is stopping you from buying these books yourself or checking them out at the public library. You could accumulate an extensive home library of sexual topics, specifically curated for your own (poor) kids. Leave the rest of us out of it.

What problem are you trying to solve here? Are your kids sneaking books from the school library that you don’t like as elementary school kids? Because honestly that has never been an issue in my household.

My kid brought home a story about a kid who was going on some sort of adventure but happened to have gay dads in 3rd grade from the school library. The gay dads was most certainly not the point of the book. We are a boring heterosexual family with nobody in our extended family involved in homosexual relationships that I am aware of. The book was an awesome opportunity for my kid to bring up questions about two dad families and for me to talk about our family values. It would have been a lost opportunity if such books were banned.

But that isn't the kind of book we're talking about (as you know), so that's quite a strawman. We're discussing books that graphically - and inappropriately - discuss sex acts and instruct children on how to access Grindr, what its purpose is, etc. We're not talking about Larlo who happens to have two dads.

In elementary school? Yes it is

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/the-top-7-most-banned-picture-books-last-school-year/2023/02

[Anonymous]

I live in Utah. The local news outlet released this article with more quotes and details than the national level take

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/davis-school-district-explains-bible-ban-lawmaker-calls-for-review-of-all-utah-school-materials/

“The request continued, “I noticed there’s a gap, though. Utah Parents United left off one of the most sex-ridden books around: The Bible. Incest, onanism, bestiality, prostitution, genital mutilation, fellatio, dildos, rape, and even infanticide.”

The rest of the quotes are equally entertaining and salty. The point of the request is that if the Bible, which contains material defined by state law as pornographic, has merit and worth, then other banned books do as well.

Complaining about the Bible is proof of the stupidity of banning books and tells lawmakers that they can’t legislate their right wing Christian agenda so cleanly.