Old (2019) NYT article—“In the salary race, Engineering majors sprint, but English majors endure”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

This is what idiots say who have never completed a math degree.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

The fact you think this way shows you have no real idea how the business world works, and I say this as someone with a graduate STEM degree from HYPS.

Lady, I AM in the 'business world'! Saying 'I don't think so' is not really a strong argument.. but then, I don't expect any better from an liberal arts major.

Good Lord. You can’t read at all. No wonder you struggle with English and in business.

I said plainly above that I have a graduate STEM degree (engineering) from HYPS.

Your graduate degree is not your major. They were talking about your major, not your graduate degree. The fact that you missed this means it's you who can't read. This isn't the pot calling the kettle black - it's the pot calling the fine china black. How embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the only STEM majors/work in STEM in my incredibly wealthy neighborhood. You can't throw a stone without hitting a lawyer in my hood.

OK so you're telling us that a BA isn't worth sh*t unless you get a JD after that. This is... not new information.

+1 why aren't these English majors getting it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure...

Upper level undergrad math classes are proof-based; assignments and tests involve producing proofs. I have no idea how you "plod through" Baby Rudin (real analysis) or abstract algebra.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

This is what idiots say who have never completed a math degree.

Nope, the opposite. I would guess it's mostly proud parents and people in other fields who are pushing back. (An engineer who grudgingly competes the math for their degree *is* someone in another field.) I'm saying it and I have a math degree. I bring it up here because I'm hearing it from people who have fancier degrees than mine, and are teaching this influx of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

Provide data to prove your point, PP. Your post is pure conjecture.

Mmm.. I made a statement along the lines of "If you jump off your second floor bedroom window, you'll break your leg" and you want me to bring data to prove it! Looks like common sense is not your forte.

DP: I don't think the relative matter of IQ scores of STEM vs. Non-STEM is a commonsense given. Verbal IQ is not likely higher among STEM majors than English, history or social science majors for instance.

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e4f6e555d97fdd45bc70fde996cf6506
https://i.insider.com/5447f61969bedd6f0f758aa6?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-average-sat-score-for-every-college-major-2014-10
Physics and mathematics majors actually have higher verbal SAT scores than sociology, psychology, communications, and other social sciences majors

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

This is what idiots say who have never completed a math degree.

I was not able to complete one, and I agree with you! PP you're replying to is an idiot.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

This is what idiots say who have never completed a math degree.

Nope, the opposite. I would guess it's mostly proud parents and people in other fields who are pushing back. (An engineer who grudgingly competes the math for their degree *is* someone in another field.) I'm saying it and I have a math degree. I bring it up here because I'm hearing it from people who have fancier degrees than mine, and are teaching this influx of students.

No one's saying it's extremely unlikely for people who don't like and/or are bad at math to major in math, they're saying it's extremely unlikely for those people to do well in all their upper level math classes and graduate with a math degree that the just "grinded out". Are those people who have fancier degrees than yours saying that influx of students is doing well and is on track to graduate?

[Anonymous]

So your salary catches up by age 40, according to the article. But what about all the extra income the STEM majors have been stashing away for 20 years, saving and investing, taking advantage of compounding interest?

I feel like you need a pretty solid grasp on some advanced math concepts just to navigate personal finance successfully these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure...

Upper level undergrad math classes are proof-based; assignments and tests involve producing proofs. I have no idea how you "plod through" Baby Rudin (real analysis) or abstract algebra.

Producing proofs that follow the model presented, this is why there are textbooks and teachers, this material is as learnable as any other advanced subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was an English major and I have an MLS - Master of Library Science. I am head of a unit in a library and I make $175,000 a year.... pffft.

Let me guess, you’re 50?

I made that at 30.

The thing that is also super silly is that all these English majors have to go get grad degrees in other fields to have any semblance of a decent career. Look at this moron citing his MS in Library Science and that's what his job is. That's not a result of your english degree, buffoon. Nobody in chemical engineering needs to waste another two years of their life and $60k getting another semi useless MS degree

But I bet, the buffoon could write a thesis on the origins of the word buffoon and it's cultural significance (which no one gives two shi*s about)!

[Anonymous]

Eh. My son wants to be an engineer. I am sure others may out-earn him in the future, but he's interested in it, and it pays a reasonable amount.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

This is what idiots say who have never completed a math degree.

Nope, the opposite. I would guess it's mostly proud parents and people in other fields who are pushing back. (An engineer who grudgingly competes the math for their degree *is* someone in another field.) I'm saying it and I have a math degree. I bring it up here because I'm hearing it from people who have fancier degrees than mine, and are teaching this influx of students.

No one's saying it's extremely unlikely for people who don't like and/or are bad at math to major in math, they're saying it's extremely unlikely for those people to do well in all their upper level math classes and graduate with a math degree that the just "grinded out". Are those people who have fancier degrees than yours saying that influx of students is doing well and is on track to graduate?

Yes, they are graduating. The latest person I heard this from was talking about UCSD. Check the numbers, it's insane how popular math is right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

This is what idiots say who have never completed a math degree.

Nope, the opposite. I would guess it's mostly proud parents and people in other fields who are pushing back. (An engineer who grudgingly competes the math for their degree *is* someone in another field.) I'm saying it and I have a math degree. I bring it up here because I'm hearing it from people who have fancier degrees than mine, and are teaching this influx of students.

I have a math degree and you're full of sh*t. Nobody can grind it out without skill and intelligence. Any "plodding" people get weeded out sophomore year and driven into other majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

The fact you think this way shows you have no real idea how the business world works, and I say this as someone with a graduate STEM degree from HYPS.

Lady, I AM in the 'business world'! Saying 'I don't think so' is not really a strong argument.. but then, I don't expect any better from an liberal arts major.

Good Lord. You can’t read at all. No wonder you struggle with English and in business.

I said plainly above that I have a graduate STEM degree (engineering) from HYPS.

Your graduate degree is not your major. They were talking about your major, not your graduate degree. The fact that you missed this means it's you who can't read. This isn't the pot calling the kettle black - it's the pot calling the fine china black. How embarrassing.

Thanks for coming to my defense. You make a good point, but I just assumed the PP was lying about their 'graduate STEM degree from HYPS'. They clearly can't comprehend what I wrote and had to respond with ad hominems.. With that level of intellect, I seriously doubt they'd have gotten into a STEM grad program with an English UG degree, let alone at HYPS..