Old (2019) NYT article—“In the salary race, Engineering majors sprint, but English majors endure”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Running a library is a science?
lol

Yeah libraries are replaced by Google and chatgpt right now it's just public urinal for homeless. No educational skills needed to wash the floors and toilet's.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Most people can't do higher level math. Non engineering majors stop at Calculus 1 usually, and I just found at that some degrees don't even require Calculus. That is surprising to me.

Just like higher level reading, higher level math is not about the math, but about complex thinking and critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Higher level math needs a certain type of mind - i.e., a mind with a higher IQ than the mind that can handle "engineering math".

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Higher level math needs a certain type of mind - i.e., a mind with a higher IQ than the mind that can handle "engineering math".

I attempted to major in math & got either a D or D- in the intro proofs class that used this textbook: https://www.people.vcu.edu/~rhammack/BookOfProof/BookOfProof.pdf

It was all absolute gibberish to me. And I did great in Calc I & II.

I ended up majoring in Accounting instead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DW with an English BS major married to a DH with a PhD in engineering. I make 10k more. I've actually always made made more because at 22 I was able to work full time and work long hours. DH was always in night school. We both graduated top of our class too. Now in our late 30's we're both experts in our fields.

Don't discount us English majors. My comprehension skills, fast reading skills, and ability to communicate have taken me far.

So, you don't have a masters degree? What's your job and field?

PP here. No, I don't have a masters degree. I said I have a BS, but I meant a BA degree.

I'm not interested in posting my job or field, but they both use liberal arts skills. DH uses his engineering skills daily, but he cannot advance in his field if he still wants to do actual engineering work.

[Anonymous]

My non-stem husband (Econ major/German minor) at a top 10 university makes 3 times my very good salary. He went into software right out of college with a BA.

I have a BS undergrad and MS in STEM, unless I also went to law school like a lot of my colleagues I would never make the $ he makes. He was making over $300k/year before he turned 30, and it went up from there.

[Anonymous]

I'm one of the only STEM majors/work in STEM in my incredibly wealthy neighborhood. You can't throw a stone without hitting a lawyer in my hood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My non-stem husband (Econ major/German minor) at a top 10 university makes 3 times my very good salary. He went into software right out of college with a BA.

I have a BS undergrad and MS in STEM, unless I also went to law school like a lot of my colleagues I would never make the $ he makes. He was making over $300k/year before he turned 30, and it went up from there.

yes, because though he did not major in STEM, he works in a STEM field, ie, CS.

I also did not major in STEM, but not English, either. I eventually ended up in the IT field and made a lot more than my STEM majoring sibling. The point being: non STEM majors who end up in STEM related fields end up earning more than English majors who do not end up working in STEM fields.

Eng fields with only undergrad degrees earn more than English majors in non eng/IT fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the only STEM majors/work in STEM in my incredibly wealthy neighborhood. You can't throw a stone without hitting a lawyer in my hood.

yes, but they ALL needed advanced degrees to get there. Get it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DW with an English BS major married to a DH with a PhD in engineering. I make 10k more. I've actually always made made more because at 22 I was able to work full time and work long hours. DH was always in night school. We both graduated top of our class too. Now in our late 30's we're both experts in our fields.

Don't discount us English majors. My comprehension skills, fast reading skills, and ability to communicate have taken me far.

So, you don't have a masters degree? What's your job and field?

PP here. No, I don't have a masters degree. I said I have a BS, but I meant a BA degree.

I'm not interested in posting my job or field, but they both use liberal arts skills. DH uses his engineering skills daily, but he cannot advance in his field if he still wants to do actual engineering work.

You're not interested because it would blow a hole in your logic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My non-stem husband (Econ major/German minor) at a top 10 university makes 3 times my very good salary. He went into software right out of college with a BA.

I have a BS undergrad and MS in STEM, unless I also went to law school like a lot of my colleagues I would never make the $ he makes. He was making over $300k/year before he turned 30, and it went up from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My non-stem husband (Econ major/German minor) at a top 10 university makes 3 times my very good salary. He went into software right out of college with a BA.

I have a BS undergrad and MS in STEM, unless I also went to law school like a lot of my colleagues I would never make the $ he makes. He was making over $300k/year before he turned 30, and it went up from there.

and other bolded

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:LMFAO the majors that require the highest level of math are trade school??

Morons.

+1

Math classes are generally harder than English classes. That's why the average SAT score in English is usually higher than the average SAT for math.

Average SAT Verbal 529, SAT Math 521. i'd hardly call that significant

By design since these are normalized scores not raw, but try explaining that to the STEM booster.

I’m someone who started out in STEM at a T20 school but slid into being an English major partly because I came in (in the pre-AP test days) less well prepared than I thought; partly because the average grades in STEM classes were about 0.5 points lower, just because; and partly because everyone in my family thought the idea of me majoring in STEM was absurd. My parents had no idea how anyone who majored in STEM who wasn’t a doctor could earn a living.

What’s hot in terms of majors changes over time. Now, humanities majors are out of fashion because law school is out of fashion. If legal hiring recovers, then interest in humanities and social sciences majors will recover.

But I think the big thing is that students have to be smart and enthusiastic to get through STEM classes at T20 universities. Dutiful, sort-of-bright children who are majoring in CS at Duke or John’s Hopkins because their parents want them to be CS majors are unlikely to survive the weeding out process. Parents who sincerely want to push bright-ish kids into CS or the like need to aim their kids at the Catholic Universities of the world, not the Johns Hopkinses.

Those kids aren't making it to CS at Duke or Johns Hopkins anymore (if they ever did in the first place)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

I don’t know where the failing classes part is coming from, it’s totally possible to get a stem degree with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.

Yes, an environmental science degree.

A math degree.

It is not possible to get a math degree “with no skill beyond sit-on-your-butt.”

It absolutely is, I know so many examples. Short of actual disability, anyone could get a math degree. I don’t know where this reverence comes from.

I don’t think any idiot could get a classics or a philosophy degree either.

But I am truly confused about your assertion that one needs no skills to get a math degree. I think most of us with average to high average IQs could handle the math that goes into engineering. But higher level math does require a certain type of mind. Not saying those people are “smarter” but I truly don’t think anyone could do it.

Producing advanced math sure, completing a math degree absolutely does not require skill beyond sit-on-your-butt. It's a lot more fun if you're the sort that just naturally loves it, but you can say that about any field. Point is this is exactly what's going on in math departments right now, people are plodding through math degrees like other people plod through econ degrees. (There are people who love econ, there are plenty who don't but get by all the same.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm one of the only STEM majors/work in STEM in my incredibly wealthy neighborhood. You can't throw a stone without hitting a lawyer in my hood.

OK so you're telling us that a BA isn't worth sh*t unless you get a JD after that. This is... not new information.