Old (2019) NYT article—“In the salary race, Engineering majors sprint, but English majors endure”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

Provide data to prove your point, PP. Your post is pure conjecture.

Mmm.. I made a statement along the lines of "If you jump off your second floor bedroom window, you'll break your leg" and you want me to bring data to prove it! Looks like common sense is not your forte.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is also less obvious about an English major is that it also teaches one how to be empathetic and how to interact with others no matter the situation.

Yes. Majoring in English teaches you empathy, increases your life, change water to wine and fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

The fact you think this way shows you have no real idea how the business world works, and I say this as someone with a graduate STEM degree from HYPS.

Lady, I AM in the 'business world'! Saying 'I don't think so' is not really a strong argument.. but then, I don't expect any better from an liberal arts major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More colleges are getting rid of the English major due to waning interest.

In a society obsessed with technology, its not at all surprising that there has been decreased interest in the humanities. Gen Z students have shorter attention spans than previous generations which should not be surprising as they grew up with iphones, Snapchat, and TikTok. I believe that the obsession with STEM fields is shortsighted. For instance, the current debate about the impact of AI on humanity makes it even more important that we have people who are able to think about big picture ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English major. Very content at 40 to be making $150K in a communications field, writing a lot, leaving every day at 4. My work is wonderful, and it never comes home with me. I’m sure I could be making a lot more money, but I value peace of mind and meaningful work a lot more. I’m happy!

+1. That’s awesome.

+2 this is me too, although I'm younger. Very happy with my career choice and salary.

English major from a small college with a party school reputation. Over 50.

I’m in a healthcare field and likely because I’m the only English major, I’m always asked to review content before publication. This is only one small part of my job and I absolutely love being the in-house editor.

I also get to delve into research and do extensive narrative report writing.

Another happy English major in a fulfilling career. I’ve held myself back salary-wise with a long gap as a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

The fact you think this way shows you have no real idea how the business world works, and I say this as someone with a graduate STEM degree from HYPS.

Lady, I AM in the 'business world'! Saying 'I don't think so' is not really a strong argument.. but then, I don't expect any better from an liberal arts major.

Good Lord. You can’t read at all. No wonder you struggle with English and in business.

I said plainly above that I have a graduate STEM degree (engineering) from HYPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
New (2023) CBSNews article

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-major-highest-lowest-incomes/

Sorry English is way at the bottom

Is this data gender-corrected? Using 35-45 year old does not account for the fact that women often take off significant time/reduce career efforts for caregiving?

Women with real careers and good benefits don't take off/reduce.

Those women don't have good career path in the first place probably have mediocre degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

College is not trade school! What you make starting out isn’t very relevant. Think long-term.

STEM majors aren’t in “trade school”. They are as highly educated as their humanities peers and have as many options for flexible career shifts long term.

Also, while salaries may eventually equal out, that fast start allows STEM majors to pay off loans quickly, save to pay cash for a car, and save for a down payment on a house. Compound interest and early investment in the stock market is a wonderful thing for retirement.

This! The VAST MAJORITY of STEM kids are smarter/more intelligent than the VAST MAJORITY of English grads. The only smart kids that WANT to get an English degree are those that love English or are getting an 'easy' degree for a high GPA as a stepping stone to grad school (medicine, law or MBA). The first group will score high on job/career satisfaction and the latter, of course, will make money compared to a CS grad that didn't go to grad school. A third group will just coast on family connections.. Get into a decent school, study English or something equally fu fu, get a job with daddy's company or daddy's friend's and go up the ladder. The skills needed for a high level job are less cerebral and more interpersonal. I know someone who dropped out of college (English major) who 20 years later is the COO of a large company in another country (daddy's connections) and seems to be doing well (anecdotal, of course). I also know many, many STEM grads that decided to get an MBA and are rubbing shoulders with the C Suite.

If you were to measure the collective wealth of ALL STEM undergrads and compare that to ALL liberal arts grads adjusted for college pedigree, I bet the the STEM grads would be way ahead of the LA peers at any age group. Common sense.

Provide data to prove your point, PP. Your post is pure conjecture.

Mmm.. I made a statement along the lines of "If you jump off your second floor bedroom window, you'll break your leg" and you want me to bring data to prove it! Looks like common sense is not your forte.

DP: I don't think the relative matter of IQ scores of STEM vs. Non-STEM is a commonsense given. Verbal IQ is not likely higher among STEM majors than English, history or social science majors for instance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

Its called weed out
Nothing new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are many here continually making the assumption that kids are being pushed into CS by their parents? Our public school district has been laser-focused on touting the importance of competency in STEM skills since my now-HS kid was in kindergarten.

Additionally, if a kid shows a preference for and aptitude in math and science over social studies, language and literature, doesn't want to be a doctor or lawyer but wants to make a fairly decent living, engineering/CS etc. seem to be one obvious answer for them.

I have know idea whether it's parental pressure or response to the STEM drumbeat, but the number of math majors has exploded. I don't teach but I've heard from a lot of people who do, and math course are more unpleasant than ever. The students that are taking classes because they like math are now very much drowned out by the people who hate the classes, hate the major, but think it will pay the bills. It didn't used to be this way, but every field gets over run from time to time.

College is not a place to continue your hobby paying shit ton of money.

Nor is it the place to fail classes over and over in a subject you both hate & suck at, that you only picked because you thought it was the golden ticket.

Its called weed out
Nothing new.

I was the PP, and I didn’t say anything about people being weeded out, in fact, that is not happening. Something like 80K math degrees are awarded annually now. I’m not someone who’s going to argue that math aptitude is special, but at least in the past it was a self selected group. This is just the bums rush, these graduates are not going to bring any special skills to the workforce, and they probably hate writing even more than they hate math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A pre-ChatGPT article. Cute.

Yep, ChatGPT will depress CS wages very quickly.

it will depress mostly non stem

[Anonymous]

DW with an English BS major married to a DH with a PhD in engineering. I make 10k more. I've actually always made made more because at 22 I was able to work full time and work long hours. DH was always in night school. We both graduated top of our class too. Now in our late 30's we're both experts in our fields.

Don't discount us English majors. My comprehension skills, fast reading skills, and ability to communicate have taken me far.