The Witch Trials of JK Rowling podcast

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

This is exactly how the public gaslit JKR, who actually doesn't hate trans people.

As long as they don't expect any rights, JKR will allow trans people to exist. What else could anyone want (besides rights)?

What rights is Rowling trying to take away from trans people?

She thinks there should be some parameters around accessing public bathrooms and being kept in prison with someone of the opposite biological gender. She is generally fine with trans women accessing bathrooms but would like some parameters to prevent men who aren't trans from entering.

So convicted rapists who self-ID as women now have inalienable rights to be housed in women’s prisons?

Yes, in Scotland. And she is concerned because in some cases, male rapists have identified as female after the arrest and demanded to be housed in a women's prison, where they raped female prisoners. She feels that this is not an acceptable approach.

It should be 100% obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that it’s unacceptable, yet here we are.

I thought so, but the podcast was illuminating about why the trans community is upset about this. They feel that their gender identities are often complicated and don't conform to expectations, and they don't want to leave it to other people to interpret which bathroom or prison is correct for them. They believe people can only reliably determine their sex for themselves, so observable traits like penises are not reliable determinants for things like bathrooms and prisons.

I don’t understand why any of that trumps women’s rights to safety and bodily autonomy.

I wasn't persuaded by it. I think that women are a vulnerable population and that they deserve some protection based on the weaknesses inherent to their biology. But, I previously didn't understand why trans people were upset about any of this, and now it makes sense to me. They think that the risk to women is acceptable when weighed against the risk of not having their gender identity validated by society.

Of course they do. After all when you separate the wheat from the chaff, majority men always think women are second-class and any risk to women is acceptable if it benefits men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

What does "trans women are women" mean to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Agreed. Which is why I say the whole trans movement is rooted in sexier stereotypes. What does it mean to “feel like a woman” or “think like a man”?

This isn't my experience at all. Most transgender people I know are very fluid and exist in the middle of the spectrum, not at the extreme ends. Look at how many gender-neutral people there are. They are anti-stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

Then what, pray tell, are the differences? And why can AFAB women not distinguish themselves from transwomen without opening ourselves up to attack as TERFs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

This is exactly how the public gaslit JKR, who actually doesn't hate trans people.

As long as they don't expect any rights, JKR will allow trans people to exist. What else could anyone want (besides rights)?

What rights is Rowling trying to take away from trans people?

She thinks there should be some parameters around accessing public bathrooms and being kept in prison with someone of the opposite biological gender. She is generally fine with trans women accessing bathrooms but would like some parameters to prevent men who aren't trans from entering.

So convicted rapists who self-ID as women now have inalienable rights to be housed in women’s prisons?

Yes, in Scotland. And she is concerned because in some cases, male rapists have identified as female after the arrest and demanded to be housed in a women's prison, where they raped female prisoners. She feels that this is not an acceptable approach.

It should be 100% obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that it’s unacceptable, yet here we are.

I thought so, but the podcast was illuminating about why the trans community is upset about this. They feel that their gender identities are often complicated and don't conform to expectations, and they don't want to leave it to other people to interpret which bathroom or prison is correct for them. They believe people can only reliably determine their sex for themselves, so observable traits like penises are not reliable determinants for things like bathrooms and prisons.

I don’t understand why any of that trumps women’s rights to safety and bodily autonomy.

I wasn't persuaded by it. I think that women are a vulnerable population and that they deserve some protection based on the weaknesses inherent to their biology. But, I previously didn't understand why trans people were upset about any of this, and now it makes sense to me. They think that the risk to women is acceptable when weighed against the risk of not having their gender identity validated by society.

If transwomen want their gender identity validated by society, doesn’t that mean somehow winning the approval of half of society, which is … biological women? How is alienating and turning against half of society a winning strategy to gain general acceptance? Or do transwomen only want to be validated by biological men?

Transgender women are only "alienating" anti-trans women. The rest of us are fine and support all women.

NP. Keep telling yourself that. I guess you’re pro-rape-threats?

Those two things are unrelated so logic fail.

I'm anti-rape-threats and anti-trans-haters.

No, sorry, you’re pro-rape-threats. I said it, so it’s true. Why do you hate women?

Not much of a discussion here if you're going to be irrational and hysterical.

Ha. I would wonder if there were a glimmer of self-awareness in your response, but I know you’re not really capable of that.

As soon as you're ready to have a rational discussion, let me know.

Ditto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Agreed. Which is why I say the whole trans movement is rooted in sexier stereotypes. What does it mean to “feel like a woman” or “think like a man”?

This isn't my experience at all. Most transgender people I know are very fluid and exist in the middle of the spectrum, not at the extreme ends. Look at how many gender-neutral people there are. They are anti-stereotypes.

Actually they are not. They feel some sort of otherness, and decide that it means they are not sufficiently male or female enough. Why can’t they just be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

What does "trans women are women" mean to you?

It means be inclusive and respectful. It doesn't mean I think they had a vagina at birth or had the same exact experience as me.

Cis-gender woman can have a wide range of experiences themselves. It's not hard to widen the tent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

What does "trans women are women" mean to you?

It means be inclusive and respectful. It doesn't mean I think they had a vagina at birth or had the same exact experience as me.

Cis-gender woman can have a wide range of experiences themselves. It's not hard to widen the tent.

So can women have separate prisons that exclude people with penises?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

What does "trans women are women" mean to you?

It means be inclusive and respectful. It doesn't mean I think they had a vagina at birth or had the same exact experience as me.

Cis-gender woman can have a wide range of experiences themselves. It's not hard to widen the tent.

Or the prison cell, or the concept of being a woman to the point that a male-presenting, biological male rapist can declare himself a woman and access your YMCA locker room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

This is exactly how the public gaslit JKR, who actually doesn't hate trans people.

As long as they don't expect any rights, JKR will allow trans people to exist. What else could anyone want (besides rights)?

What rights is Rowling trying to take away from trans people?

She thinks there should be some parameters around accessing public bathrooms and being kept in prison with someone of the opposite biological gender. She is generally fine with trans women accessing bathrooms but would like some parameters to prevent men who aren't trans from entering.

So convicted rapists who self-ID as women now have inalienable rights to be housed in women’s prisons?

Yes, in Scotland. And she is concerned because in some cases, male rapists have identified as female after the arrest and demanded to be housed in a women's prison, where they raped female prisoners. She feels that this is not an acceptable approach.

It should be 100% obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that it’s unacceptable, yet here we are.

I thought so, but the podcast was illuminating about why the trans community is upset about this. They feel that their gender identities are often complicated and don't conform to expectations, and they don't want to leave it to other people to interpret which bathroom or prison is correct for them. They believe people can only reliably determine their sex for themselves, so observable traits like penises are not reliable determinants for things like bathrooms and prisons.

I don’t understand why any of that trumps women’s rights to safety and bodily autonomy.

I wasn't persuaded by it. I think that women are a vulnerable population and that they deserve some protection based on the weaknesses inherent to their biology. But, I previously didn't understand why trans people were upset about any of this, and now it makes sense to me. They think that the risk to women is acceptable when weighed against the risk of not having their gender identity validated by society.

If transwomen want their gender identity validated by society, doesn’t that mean somehow winning the approval of half of society, which is … biological women? How is alienating and turning against half of society a winning strategy to gain general acceptance? Or do transwomen only want to be validated by biological men?

Transgender women are only "alienating" anti-trans women. The rest of us are fine and support all women.

NP. Keep telling yourself that. I guess you’re pro-rape-threats?

Those two things are unrelated so logic fail.

I'm anti-rape-threats and anti-trans-haters.

Not possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if it benefits men.

There you go again. Misgendering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

Really? DP here, but...really? Because I have. I've been told that transwomen are women and that I should let them into women's changing rooms, women's public restrooms, and women's jails. Because, since transwomen aren't a distinct category from biological women, there's certainly no threat that she'd use her penis to assault me. I don't have a right to feel uncomfortable because she is not different from me. That's the argument.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

+1

"delusional"
"something men didn’t like"
women's prison!
and other faux hysterics

Standard RWNJ/TURF talking points.

If the trans “debate” isn’t misogynistic, why do people use TERF but without any equivalent term for men? Why do we say “trans women are women” 10x more frequently than we say trans men are men? Why do non-medically transitioned trans women demand to be in women only spaces (ie women’s prisons) while the trans men don’t? Why do trans women threaten to rape women but trans men don’t?

How many men are on DCUM and trashing transgender people 24x7? I mostly see hostile women - many older and/or lesbians.

If men were relentlessly attacking transgender people we could come up with a name for them. TERM?

This has nothing to do with DCUM because the word "TERF" wasn't invented on this forum, nor was it invented for this forum. (Nor do I see women here "trashing" transgender people but that's a separate issue.) Women don't do anything to transgender people except to ask them to respect our spaces. Men, on the other hand, are responsible 99% of the time for beating up, raping and/or killing transgender people.

Yet we get called TERF? For simply not feeling comfortable with OUR hard-won rights and safe spaces being appropriated or eroded? It's the absolute height of sexism.

I'm explaining why I use the term TERF. Because I'm addressing women. I will start using TERM when I start coming across anti-trans men.

Women are absolutely trashing transgender people. Regularly on DCUM. On this thread, we have "delusional" for starters.

DP, but it is delusional to say that trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women. That being born with a penis and raised as a boy is exactly the same as being born with a vaginas and raised as a girl. If this were true, transgenderism wouldn't exist because your sex wouldn't be a notable characteristic. But it does matter- it is a core and defining characteristic, which is the exact reason this issue generates controversy.

Who says that? I've never heard anyone on DCUM say that.

Lots and lots of people say that. If you say that trans women are a distinct category that are in any way separate from biological women, that is considered transphobic.

Not "lots" of people.

I've literally never heard someone say that "trans women are in every way, both biologically and experientially, exactly and in all ways the same as biological women."

What does "trans women are women" mean to you?

It means be inclusive and respectful. It doesn't mean I think they had a vagina at birth or had the same exact experience as me.

Cis-gender woman can have a wide range of experiences themselves. It's not hard to widen the tent.

So can women have separate prisons that exclude people with penises?

No, because transwomen are women.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This feels like the same person posting over and over, trying to convince us that it's ok to dislike trans people.

This is exactly how the public gaslit JKR, who actually doesn't hate trans people.

As long as they don't expect any rights, JKR will allow trans people to exist. What else could anyone want (besides rights)?

What rights is Rowling trying to take away from trans people?

She thinks there should be some parameters around accessing public bathrooms and being kept in prison with someone of the opposite biological gender. She is generally fine with trans women accessing bathrooms but would like some parameters to prevent men who aren't trans from entering.

So convicted rapists who self-ID as women now have inalienable rights to be housed in women’s prisons?

Yes, in Scotland. And she is concerned because in some cases, male rapists have identified as female after the arrest and demanded to be housed in a women's prison, where they raped female prisoners. She feels that this is not an acceptable approach.

It should be 100% obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that it’s unacceptable, yet here we are.

I thought so, but the podcast was illuminating about why the trans community is upset about this. They feel that their gender identities are often complicated and don't conform to expectations, and they don't want to leave it to other people to interpret which bathroom or prison is correct for them. They believe people can only reliably determine their sex for themselves, so observable traits like penises are not reliable determinants for things like bathrooms and prisons.

I don’t understand why any of that trumps women’s rights to safety and bodily autonomy.

I wasn't persuaded by it. I think that women are a vulnerable population and that they deserve some protection based on the weaknesses inherent to their biology. But, I previously didn't understand why trans people were upset about any of this, and now it makes sense to me. They think that the risk to women is acceptable when weighed against the risk of not having their gender identity validated by society.

If transwomen want their gender identity validated by society, doesn’t that mean somehow winning the approval of half of society, which is … biological women? How is alienating and turning against half of society a winning strategy to gain general acceptance? Or do transwomen only want to be validated by biological men?

Transgender women are only "alienating" anti-trans women. The rest of us are fine and support all women.

NP. Keep telling yourself that. I guess you’re pro-rape-threats?

Those two things are unrelated so logic fail.

I'm anti-rape-threats and anti-trans-haters.

Not possible.

I'm sorry you struggle with logic.