Classical education

[Anonymous]

The only thing this thread has proven about Classical education is that no one knows what it is. It’s a phrase anyone can use to cover anything other than what they don’t like about today’s schools. It’s now lost its actual meaning completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

I'm sure you are aware that classical education predates 2016 and Milo and social media. And has nothing to do with any of them.

I'm sure most people know that, but what may be news is that the term has been co-opted by the right-wingers whose goal is to eradicate public education (e.g., Hillsdale College's Classical Education charter schools)y. And they're winning! What we need to do is demand a classic education from our public schools without all the right-wing bullcrap.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Look, sate education is always going to be around and anyone withe eyes to see can tell it’s a cesspool of woke tripe. That’s why classical schools are getting more attention, because they teach the basics of a liberal (a real liberal) education. Parents are craving this, and that’s a good thing.

LOL

"Before coming to Harvard, 63 percent of respondents attended public school, most of them non-charter, while 35 percent attended private school—26 percent non-denominational and 10 percent parochial."

All this proves is that Harvard likes woke tripe.

Wait until their endowment donations dry up once all the woke grads never work much, build companies, or bother to make donations with their DEI or activist donor funded jobs.

It is difficult to type with Tucker’s arm that far up your a**?

[Anonymous]

Most people using the ten classical education are talking about:

The Trivium
Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study. In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium.

So in early elementary school there is an emphasis on copying, dictation, recitation, spelling, grammar, and memorization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

There's always one that shows up with this drivel. A focus on liberal arts, classical literature, and the history of Western civilization is good, actually.

OP, most Catholic schools have at least pieces of this if they're not all in. And the level of Catholicism varies by school, so I wouldn't count them out entirely.

Jesse Jackson- "Hey Hey ho ho Western culture's got to go"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people using the ten classical education are talking about:

The Trivium
Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study. In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium.

So in early elementary school there is an emphasis on copying, dictation, recitation, spelling, grammar, and memorization.

Rhetoric?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people using the ten classical education are talking about:

The Trivium
Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study. In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium.

So in early elementary school there is an emphasis on copying, dictation, recitation, spelling, grammar, and memorization.

Makes sense and works for all learning types.

[Anonymous]

I am italian and attended a “classical” highschool. In Italy after middle school you can choose 2 types of high schools: professional schools (learn a trade) or “liceo” (prepare you for university.
Among the “liceo” there are 4 different fields in order of “prestige”: classical, scientific, linguistic, artistic.

In the classical liceo students focus their learning on Ancient Greek, Latin, philosophy, history and literature. There is a lot of reading, writing and translating. Math and science is minimal. Traditionally, this is the hardest course of study with toughest academics and where the smartest and hard working students go.

It’s different from the US where STEM seems to be the most important/prestigious component.

I went o the classic liceo and college in the US was extremely easy in comparison (even considering the new language)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

I'm sure you are aware that classical education predates 2016 and Milo and social media. And has nothing to do with any of them.

I'm sure most people know that, but what may be news is that the term has been co-opted by the right-wingers whose goal is to eradicate public education (e.g., Hillsdale College's Classical Education charter schools)y. And they're winning! What we need to do is demand a classic education from our public schools without all the right-wing bullcrap.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Look, sate education is always going to be around and anyone withe eyes to see can tell it’s a cesspool of woke tripe. That’s why classical schools are getting more attention, because they teach the basics of a liberal (a real liberal) education. Parents are craving this, and that’s a good thing.

LOL

"Before coming to Harvard, 63 percent of respondents attended public school, most of them non-charter, while 35 percent attended private school—26 percent non-denominational and 10 percent parochial."

All this proves is that Harvard likes woke tripe.

Wait until their endowment donations dry up once all the woke grads never work much, build companies, or bother to make donations with their DEI or activist donor funded jobs.

This is like Trump screaming about the failing NY Times as their circulation went through the roof. Harvard has the largest university endowment in the world by far. Your lame hopes it will fail are just that, lame hopes.

Try living in the fact-based world for a change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

I'm sure you are aware that classical education predates 2016 and Milo and social media. And has nothing to do with any of them.

I'm sure most people know that, but what may be news is that the term has been co-opted by the right-wingers whose goal is to eradicate public education (e.g., Hillsdale College's Classical Education charter schools)y. And they're winning! What we need to do is demand a classic education from our public schools without all the right-wing bullcrap.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Look, sate education is always going to be around and anyone withe eyes to see can tell it’s a cesspool of woke tripe. That’s why classical schools are getting more attention, because they teach the basics of a liberal (a real liberal) education. Parents are craving this, and that’s a good thing.

LOL

"Before coming to Harvard, 63 percent of respondents attended public school, most of them non-charter, while 35 percent attended private school—26 percent non-denominational and 10 percent parochial."

All this proves is that Harvard likes woke tripe.

Wait until their endowment donations dry up once all the woke grads never work much, build companies, or bother to make donations with their DEI or activist donor funded jobs.

This is like Trump screaming about the failing NY Times as their circulation went through the roof. Harvard has the largest university endowment in the world by far. Your lame hopes it will fail are just that, lame hopes.

Try living in the fact-based world for a change.

Ironically it was one of their board members that said that.
He also said if the mission is to educate people, add more seats, it’s been 100 years at same ugrad capacity.

As for endowment, less donations + 5% draw + <5% pa returns = shrinking.

And do you think most alums like what the Dean has done with the college, mission and reputation? Many don’t have their head in the sand on the trend line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

I'm sure you are aware that classical education predates 2016 and Milo and social media. And has nothing to do with any of them.

I'm sure most people know that, but what may be news is that the term has been co-opted by the right-wingers whose goal is to eradicate public education (e.g., Hillsdale College's Classical Education charter schools)y. And they're winning! What we need to do is demand a classic education from our public schools without all the right-wing bullcrap.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Look, sate education is always going to be around and anyone withe eyes to see can tell it’s a cesspool of woke tripe. That’s why classical schools are getting more attention, because they teach the basics of a liberal (a real liberal) education. Parents are craving this, and that’s a good thing.

LOL

"Before coming to Harvard, 63 percent of respondents attended public school, most of them non-charter, while 35 percent attended private school—26 percent non-denominational and 10 percent parochial."

All this proves is that Harvard likes woke tripe.

Wait until their endowment donations dry up once all the woke grads never work much, build companies, or bother to make donations with their DEI or activist donor funded jobs.

This is like Trump screaming about the failing NY Times as their circulation went through the roof. Harvard has the largest university endowment in the world by far. Your lame hopes it will fail are just that, lame hopes.

Try living in the fact-based world for a change.

Ironically it was one of their board members that said that.
He also said if the mission is to educate people, add more seats, it’s been 100 years at same ugrad capacity.

As for endowment, less donations + 5% draw + <5% pa returns = shrinking.

And do you think most alums like what the Dean has done with the college, mission and reputation? Many don’t have their head in the sand on the trend line.

The Harvard endowment is $53 billion with a b, even after many years of ultra-low interest rates. That return can easily top 5% in the current environment, so that argument is comical at best. Worst case, they only have $33 billion in 40 years?

The Ivies don't add seats because they don't dilute their product. My Ivy alma mater now has almost twice as many applications as they did back in my day for the same number of seats, allowing them to customize each class literally any way they like.

But keep dreaming that they are all about to collapse. It's common theme in history. "That can never last!" LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If people don’t know what a classical education emphasizes in elementary school here are some examples:

Phonics is taught systematically using a curriculum. Students will read decodable texts instead of guessing and memorizing whole words while looking at picture cues. Workbooks to practice phonics skills are used.

Spelling is taught and there are weekly spelling tests. Instead of having students in kindergarten and first grade write sentences, paragraphs or pages of journal writing where they write using invented spelling about their favorite animal or what they did during the weekend, in classical education students first learn to copy correctly using correct spelling and punctuation. They memorize and recite poems.

In math students memorize math facts.

I don't think this is specifically a classical education which is based on the trivium. This is a standard education from 25 years ago.
My son brought home so many pieces of writing last year which consisted of "i like to eat piza my favrit piza is peperony it is soooooooo gud" (with enough O's in it to to fill up the sheet of paper). Now he has to copy a paragraph using correct capitalization, spelling and punctuation. He doesn't care about creative writing; he likes to know that what he has written is correct. Teachers have it in their heads that every 6 year old is a budding stream-of-consciousness author who can't be constrained by the rules of grammar. Wrong! The time for creative writing is AFTER they've learned the rules of the language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people don’t know what a classical education emphasizes in elementary school here are some examples:

Phonics is taught systematically using a curriculum. Students will read decodable texts instead of guessing and memorizing whole words while looking at picture cues. Workbooks to practice phonics skills are used.

Spelling is taught and there are weekly spelling tests. Instead of having students in kindergarten and first grade write sentences, paragraphs or pages of journal writing where they write using invented spelling about their favorite animal or what they did during the weekend, in classical education students first learn to copy correctly using correct spelling and punctuation. They memorize and recite poems.

In math students memorize math facts.

I don't think this is specifically a classical education which is based on the trivium. This is a standard education from 25 years ago.
My son brought home so many pieces of writing last year which consisted of "i like to eat piza my favrit piza is peperony it is soooooooo gud" (with enough O's in it to to fill up the sheet of paper). Now he has to copy a paragraph using correct capitalization, spelling and punctuation. He doesn't care about creative writing; he likes to know that what he has written is correct. Teachers have it in their heads that every 6 year old is a budding stream-of-consciousness author who can't be constrained by the rules of grammar. Wrong! The time for creative writing is AFTER they've learned the rules of the language.

You really hit the nail on the head. I think public schools are starting to realize that they need phonics to teach reading, which is great. But they are still really far behind on writing. The philosophy seems to be that getting the kids to produce any writing at all is the point, instead of teaching the kids how to spell and write. My kid's handwriting at 10 still looks like a Kindergarteners. I hate how they underestimate what kids can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

I'm sure you are aware that classical education predates 2016 and Milo and social media. And has nothing to do with any of them.

I'm sure most people know that, but what may be news is that the term has been co-opted by the right-wingers whose goal is to eradicate public education (e.g., Hillsdale College's Classical Education charter schools)y. And they're winning! What we need to do is demand a classic education from our public schools without all the right-wing bullcrap.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Look, sate education is always going to be around and anyone withe eyes to see can tell it’s a cesspool of woke tripe. That’s why classical schools are getting more attention, because they teach the basics of a liberal (a real liberal) education. Parents are craving this, and that’s a good thing.

LOL

"Before coming to Harvard, 63 percent of respondents attended public school, most of them non-charter, while 35 percent attended private school—26 percent non-denominational and 10 percent parochial."

2% homeschooled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, y’all, something to know is that the sudden interest in “classical” education has nothing to do with great books or Latin. It traces back to a 2016 Identity Evropa (white nationalist group) “Don’t forget your heritage” campaign, which was tied to visuals of Greek and Roman sculpture and architecture. Folks like Milo Yiannipolous followed on; Milo even went by the handle @nero on Twitter. As well, these folks had a sudden interest in the Edward Gibbons book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which was written in the 18th century. No, it’s not because a group suddenly became historically curious. Rather, they used Rome’s history to justify xenophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric.

If OP is not aware of this, he/she now knows and can ask in more specific terms about the attributes his/her family wants in a school (small group seminars, reading the English canon, uniforms, whatever). If OP is aware of the loaded nature of “classical education,” then we should probably avoid normalizing and aiding this level of white supremacy.

I'm sure you are aware that classical education predates 2016 and Milo and social media. And has nothing to do with any of them.

I'm sure most people know that, but what may be news is that the term has been co-opted by the right-wingers whose goal is to eradicate public education (e.g., Hillsdale College's Classical Education charter schools)y. And they're winning! What we need to do is demand a classic education from our public schools without all the right-wing bullcrap.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Look, sate education is always going to be around and anyone withe eyes to see can tell it’s a cesspool of woke tripe. That’s why classical schools are getting more attention, because they teach the basics of a liberal (a real liberal) education. Parents are craving this, and that’s a good thing.

LOL

"Before coming to Harvard, 63 percent of respondents attended public school, most of them non-charter, while 35 percent attended private school—26 percent non-denominational and 10 percent parochial."

All this proves is that Harvard likes woke tripe.

Wait until their endowment donations dry up once all the woke grads never work much, build companies, or bother to make donations with their DEI or activist donor funded jobs.

This is like Trump screaming about the failing NY Times as their circulation went through the roof. Harvard has the largest university endowment in the world by far. Your lame hopes it will fail are just that, lame hopes.

Try living in the fact-based world for a change.

Ironically it was one of their board members that said that.
He also said if the mission is to educate people, add more seats, it’s been 100 years at same ugrad capacity.

As for endowment, less donations + 5% draw + <5% pa returns = shrinking.

And do you think most alums like what the Dean has done with the college, mission and reputation? Many don’t have their head in the sand on the trend line.

The Harvard endowment is $53 billion with a b, even after many years of ultra-low interest rates. That return can easily top 5% in the current environment, so that argument is comical at best. Worst case, they only have $33 billion in 40 years?

The Ivies don't add seats because they don't dilute their product. My Ivy alma mater now has almost twice as many applications as they did back in my day for the same number of seats, allowing them to customize each class literally any way they like.

But keep dreaming that they are all about to collapse. It's common theme in history. "That can never last!" LOL.

Lol.
Didn’t they publish their June 2022 yearend report? Negative returns
Didn’t Princeton add 100s of seats last year? Yes
Going from $53b to $33b over 40years of performance, donations, inflation and operating draw would be a record poor performance.

great example of your Ivy League education, common sense, and financial sense. Gender studies major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people don’t know what a classical education emphasizes in elementary school here are some examples:

Phonics is taught systematically using a curriculum. Students will read decodable texts instead of guessing and memorizing whole words while looking at picture cues. Workbooks to practice phonics skills are used.

Spelling is taught and there are weekly spelling tests. Instead of having students in kindergarten and first grade write sentences, paragraphs or pages of journal writing where they write using invented spelling about their favorite animal or what they did during the weekend, in classical education students first learn to copy correctly using correct spelling and punctuation. They memorize and recite poems.

In math students memorize math facts.

I don't think this is specifically a classical education which is based on the trivium. This is a standard education from 25 years ago.
My son brought home so many pieces of writing last year which consisted of "i like to eat piza my favrit piza is peperony it is soooooooo gud" (with enough O's in it to to fill up the sheet of paper). Now he has to copy a paragraph using correct capitalization, spelling and punctuation. He doesn't care about creative writing; he likes to know that what he has written is correct. Teachers have it in their heads that every 6 year old is a budding stream-of-consciousness author who can't be constrained by the rules of grammar. Wrong! The time for creative writing is AFTER they've learned the rules of the language.

Agree. Such a joke.

We were on a tour and I believe they said it was 4th grade classroom but the “writing” up on the walls looked like 1st grade at most. Poor penmanship, poor spelling- same word three different ways even, lack of punctuation, and poor content- repetitive, no descriptions, restated the question as an answer.

And zero teacher feedback. Maybe that was the issue, no one looking things over = Who cares

My spouse actually took phone photos of it to remember. Maybe we’ll apply at a later year there if things elsewhere don’t work out.