Can a China expert explain why xi didn’t let covid burn through the population?

[Anonymous]

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Older people are respected in China and Asia in general. There is no real herd immunity when you are talking about a virus that mutates and they don't have a good vaccine. For some reason they won't use the western vaccine.

+1. Aging population + the Chinese vaccine (Synovac ???) isn’t the mRNA technology. And Chinese nationalism prevents them from accepting the mRNA vaccine and admitting the American vaccine is superior. Also, they told Modera and Pfizer they wouldn’t “accept” their vaccines until they also got the intellectual property. Which for obvious reasons is never gonna happen.

Result: one of the only nations with very little immunity (and still no vaccine). They have really painted themselves into a corner. They are still where we were in fall 2020, except no vaccine on the horizon. I’ve seen projections of well over a million deaths of they open back up now.

Wow. I didn’t know some of this. Thank you for explaining this all.

NP

What I don’t get is why they haven’t developed a better vaccine by now. What has happened to their scientists? Their laboratories?

What is so frustrating about COVID anti-vaxx conspiracies is that mRNA technology is a once is a generation medical breakthrough. And it probably saved millions of American lives. Without it, we’d all have the J&J shot. Which is something. But there is a reason most places don’t offer it. Sometimes medical breakthroughs don’t happen on demand. We got lucky with Pfizer and Moderna— which we’re ironically in the works in 3/2020 as possible vaccines for SARS and MERS.

If you are so sure mRNA is a way to go and the future of all vaccination why are you using the word "probably" when talking about saving lives? Hmm.. I would expect a more assertive statement from someone so sure

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:But China only wants to protect the people. It’s such a benevolent nation

I wouldn’t call them benevolent, but they definitely handled covid better. We could learn a lot from them. Not just in how the government administers it’s authority, but how the people accept it. We’d be better off as a nation if we were more like China.

Troll gonna troll

I can assure you I’m definitely not a troll.

What I AM is someone who’s had their fill of the “muh freedumbs” idiots over the last few years. Freedumb IS the problem. This country has too much of it, and these idiots can’t handle it. So yes, I admire the Chinese, for the way their citizens understand personal responsibility and for the way the govt doesn’t allow the stupidity we’ve seen here during the pandemic. We the opposite end of the spectrum from China. The ideal point would be somewhere in the middle. Closer to where UK/Canada/Australia/NZ would’ve been IF they didn’t have their own freedumb loons mucking things up. Inspired by American freedumb loons, btw.

So yes, I look longingly towards being more like China.

China is stupid in their own way. Surely you must realize that. They resort to lockdowns because they don’t have a decent vaccine. If they could have provided their citizens that, they likely could have opened up with masks and it would have been ok there.

Also calling anyone who dares to question the cost/benefits of Covid mitigation measures as “freedumbs” shows you are simple minded and most likely sheltered. What made sense in March 2020 eventually did not anymore.

I'm not even sure what we did made sense in March 2020, either. Our public health officials panicked, and basically ignored decades of planning on how to handle disease outbreaks and just kind of engaged in a race to see who could be the most restrictive, before some places decided to dial it back, and eventually end restrictions. It's good that we live in a federal republic, where states could push back on the narrative and try different, less restrictive approaches, rather than being stuck with a top-down, one-size fits all approach.

People living in NYC would call out your dismissive tone for the bullsh1t it is. Hospitals and EMS were overwhelmed. As were funeral homes and crematoria.

One could argue that the measures weren’t enough in NYC yet overkill elsewhere.

Or, one could argue that because the measures weren’t enough in NYC, where it hit first, the rest of the country took measure to not be like NYC.

Please, what part of our country took more draconian measures than NYC? NYC was the only place with all employer vax mandates, the first to implement vaxxports, and the ONLY place where 5+ KIDS were required to be vaxed to attend public places and childhood activities and sports. They did all the testing and tracing and required Covid infected to confirm each day that they didn't leave their quarantine. They built make shift overflow hospitals and a huge Navy ship was brought to provide thousands of beds. None of it was really used, but this was the only place where temp hospital capacity ramp up was taken seriously.

Draconian measures are of limited use once a mass casualty event has already happened. NYC was so skittish because they got hit so hard so fast. It’s not like they closed schools before the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But China only wants to protect the people. It’s such a benevolent nation

I wouldn’t call them benevolent, but they definitely handled covid better. We could learn a lot from them. Not just in how the government administers it’s authority, but how the people accept it. We’d be better off as a nation if we were more like China.

Troll gonna troll

I can assure you I’m definitely not a troll.

What I AM is someone who’s had their fill of the “muh freedumbs” idiots over the last few years. Freedumb IS the problem. This country has too much of it, and these idiots can’t handle it. So yes, I admire the Chinese, for the way their citizens understand personal responsibility and for the way the govt doesn’t allow the stupidity we’ve seen here during the pandemic. We the opposite end of the spectrum from China. The ideal point would be somewhere in the middle. Closer to where UK/Canada/Australia/NZ would’ve been IF they didn’t have their own freedumb loons mucking things up. Inspired by American freedumb loons, btw.

So yes, I look longingly towards being more like China.

China is stupid in their own way. Surely you must realize that. They resort to lockdowns because they don’t have a decent vaccine. If they could have provided their citizens that, they likely could have opened up with masks and it would have been ok there.

Also calling anyone who dares to question the cost/benefits of Covid mitigation measures as “freedumbs” shows you are simple minded and most likely sheltered. What made sense in March 2020 eventually did not anymore.

I'm not even sure what we did made sense in March 2020, either. Our public health officials panicked, and basically ignored decades of planning on how to handle disease outbreaks and just kind of engaged in a race to see who could be the most restrictive, before some places decided to dial it back, and eventually end restrictions. It's good that we live in a federal republic, where states could push back on the narrative and try different, less restrictive approaches, rather than being stuck with a top-down, one-size fits all approach.

People living in NYC would call out your dismissive tone for the bullsh1t it is. Hospitals and EMS were overwhelmed. As were funeral homes and crematoria.

One could argue that the measures weren’t enough in NYC yet overkill elsewhere.

Or, one could argue that because the measures weren’t enough in NYC, where it hit first, the rest of the country took measure to not be like NYC.

Please, what part of our country took more draconian measures than NYC? NYC was the only place with all employer vax mandates, the first to implement vaxxports, and the ONLY place where 5+ KIDS were required to be vaxed to attend public places and childhood activities and sports. They did all the testing and tracing and required Covid infected to confirm each day that they didn't leave their quarantine. They built make shift overflow hospitals and a huge Navy ship was brought to provide thousands of beds. None of it was really used, but this was the only place where temp hospital capacity ramp up was taken seriously.

Draconian measures are of limited use once a mass casualty event has already happened. NYC was so skittish because they got hit so hard so fast. It’s not like they closed schools before the DMV.

Schools in NYC closed in March, we pulled our kids out before that and started wearing masks everywhere. People who were scared started to take precautions right away, even while our clueless mayor was still contemplating whether to have St. Patricks parade. Not knowing much about how this virus spreads and what's high risk and low risk many started sanitizing surfaces, washing hands and wearing masks even outdoors. We knew it was circulating already, but we also were in control and not elderly trapped in nursing homes, hospitals or already weakened by the flu season in full swing. That's where most casualties were

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But China only wants to protect the people. It’s such a benevolent nation

I wouldn’t call them benevolent, but they definitely handled covid better. We could learn a lot from them. Not just in how the government administers it’s authority, but how the people accept it. We’d be better off as a nation if we were more like China.

Troll gonna troll

I can assure you I’m definitely not a troll.

What I AM is someone who’s had their fill of the “muh freedumbs” idiots over the last few years. Freedumb IS the problem. This country has too much of it, and these idiots can’t handle it. So yes, I admire the Chinese, for the way their citizens understand personal responsibility and for the way the govt doesn’t allow the stupidity we’ve seen here during the pandemic. We the opposite end of the spectrum from China. The ideal point would be somewhere in the middle. Closer to where UK/Canada/Australia/NZ would’ve been IF they didn’t have their own freedumb loons mucking things up. Inspired by American freedumb loons, btw.

So yes, I look longingly towards being more like China.

China is stupid in their own way. Surely you must realize that. They resort to lockdowns because they don’t have a decent vaccine. If they could have provided their citizens that, they likely could have opened up with masks and it would have been ok there.

Also calling anyone who dares to question the cost/benefits of Covid mitigation measures as “freedumbs” shows you are simple minded and most likely sheltered. What made sense in March 2020 eventually did not anymore.

I'm not even sure what we did made sense in March 2020, either. Our public health officials panicked, and basically ignored decades of planning on how to handle disease outbreaks and just kind of engaged in a race to see who could be the most restrictive, before some places decided to dial it back, and eventually end restrictions. It's good that we live in a federal republic, where states could push back on the narrative and try different, less restrictive approaches, rather than being stuck with a top-down, one-size fits all approach.

People living in NYC would call out your dismissive tone for the bullsh1t it is. Hospitals and EMS were overwhelmed. As were funeral homes and crematoria.

One could argue that the measures weren’t enough in NYC yet overkill elsewhere.

Or, one could argue that because the measures weren’t enough in NYC, where it hit first, the rest of the country took measure to not be like NYC.

Please, what part of our country took more draconian measures than NYC? NYC was the only place with all employer vax mandates, the first to implement vaxxports, and the ONLY place where 5+ KIDS were required to be vaxed to attend public places and childhood activities and sports. They did all the testing and tracing and required Covid infected to confirm each day that they didn't leave their quarantine. They built make shift overflow hospitals and a huge Navy ship was brought to provide thousands of beds. None of it was really used, but this was the only place where temp hospital capacity ramp up was taken seriously.

Draconian measures are of limited use once a mass casualty event has already happened. NYC was so skittish because they got hit so hard so fast. It’s not like they closed schools before the DMV.

Schools in NYC closed in March, we pulled our kids out before that and started wearing masks everywhere. People who were scared started to take precautions right away, even while our clueless mayor was still contemplating whether to have St. Patricks parade. Not knowing much about how this virus spreads and what's high risk and low risk many started sanitizing surfaces, washing hands and wearing masks even outdoors. We knew it was circulating already, but we also were in control and not elderly trapped in nursing homes, hospitals or already weakened by the flu season in full swing. That's where most casualties were

I don't disagree that our local government mishandled this, and they dialed up the measures too much too late when pandemic wave already passed. They also dialed up on vax coercion like no other place when most of the population already had immunity from previous exposure. Their measures destroyed lots of businesses, created mass exodus and fall in rent prices, which later backfired with people coming back and rents going up to a lot higher than pre-pandemic levels. They locked down schools for a while too. They created a lot of friction with vax mandates and passports and fueled anti-vax movement even more. These measures did destroy lives while it's unclear how much they contributed to saving lives because so many vulnerable people already died out during the first wave, and if you believe in herd immunity, then NYC would probably be the place that came closest to achieving it.

[Anonymous]

China locked down because they wanted more information and date on the virus after it was exported.

The rub is, China knows less about it now than in 2020 as the “vaccinated” west now deals with populations that could handle things like rsv and strep A but pose a new challenge.

So China is going to have all sorts of issues beyond Covid.

Their plan was to wait out, use the world as their Petri dish but their population got tired of their plan. Xi realized he needed another 2-5 years for his plan to play out and went to plan b.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:China locked down because they wanted more information and date on the virus after it was exported.

The rub is, China knows less about it now than in 2020 as the “vaccinated” west now deals with populations that could handle things like rsv and strep A but pose a new challenge.

So China is going to have all sorts of issues beyond Covid.

Their plan was to wait out, use the world as their Petri dish but their population got tired of their plan. Xi realized he needed another 2-5 years for his plan to play out and went to plan b.

That’s a dumb conspiracy theory and frankly rather bigoted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But China only wants to protect the people. It’s such a benevolent nation

I wouldn’t call them benevolent, but they definitely handled covid better. We could learn a lot from them. Not just in how the government administers it’s authority, but how the people accept it. We’d be better off as a nation if we were more like China.

Troll gonna troll

I can assure you I’m definitely not a troll.

What I AM is someone who’s had their fill of the “muh freedumbs” idiots over the last few years. Freedumb IS the problem. This country has too much of it, and these idiots can’t handle it. So yes, I admire the Chinese, for the way their citizens understand personal responsibility and for the way the govt doesn’t allow the stupidity we’ve seen here during the pandemic. We the opposite end of the spectrum from China. The ideal point would be somewhere in the middle. Closer to where UK/Canada/Australia/NZ would’ve been IF they didn’t have their own freedumb loons mucking things up. Inspired by American freedumb loons, btw.

So yes, I look longingly towards being more like China.

China is stupid in their own way. Surely you must realize that. They resort to lockdowns because they don’t have a decent vaccine. If they could have provided their citizens that, they likely could have opened up with masks and it would have been ok there.

Also calling anyone who dares to question the cost/benefits of Covid mitigation measures as “freedumbs” shows you are simple minded and most likely sheltered. What made sense in March 2020 eventually did not anymore.

I'm not even sure what we did made sense in March 2020, either. Our public health officials panicked, and basically ignored decades of planning on how to handle disease outbreaks and just kind of engaged in a race to see who could be the most restrictive, before some places decided to dial it back, and eventually end restrictions. It's good that we live in a federal republic, where states could push back on the narrative and try different, less restrictive approaches, rather than being stuck with a top-down, one-size fits all approach.

People living in NYC would call out your dismissive tone for the bullsh1t it is. Hospitals and EMS were overwhelmed. As were funeral homes and crematoria.

One could argue that the measures weren’t enough in NYC yet overkill elsewhere.

Or, one could argue that because the measures weren’t enough in NYC, where it hit first, the rest of the country took measure to not be like NYC.

Please, what part of our country took more draconian measures than NYC? NYC was the only place with all employer vax mandates, the first to implement vaxxports, and the ONLY place where 5+ KIDS were required to be vaxed to attend public places and childhood activities and sports. They did all the testing and tracing and required Covid infected to confirm each day that they didn't leave their quarantine. They built make shift overflow hospitals and a huge Navy ship was brought to provide thousands of beds. None of it was really used, but this was the only place where temp hospital capacity ramp up was taken seriously.

DC in conjunction with the Army Corps of Engineers built out its convention center to be able to provide overflow beds.

[Anonymous]

The US is now requiring a negative COVID test for travelers from China. While I think this is an excellent policy, it’s amazing how no one seems fazed by it. Under Trump, we would have had pages and pages of outrage, claiming this policy was “racist.” But it’s Biden, so I guess it’s all good now! 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US is now requiring a negative COVID test for travelers from China. While I think this is an excellent policy, it’s amazing how no one seems fazed by it. Under Trump, we would have had pages and pages of outrage, claiming this policy was “racist.” But it’s Biden, so I guess it’s all good now! 🙄

I agree on this one and I'm a democrat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US is now requiring a negative COVID test for travelers from China. While I think this is an excellent policy, it’s amazing how no one seems fazed by it. Under Trump, we would have had pages and pages of outrage, claiming this policy was “racist.” But it’s Biden, so I guess it’s all good now! 🙄

I agree on this one and I'm a democrat.

Ooh actually I disagree. I think it's useless to test travelers from China at this time in the pandemic. I do agree that if Trump put this policy into place there would be outcry over racism (I do NOT like Trump FWIW).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US is now requiring a negative COVID test for travelers from China. While I think this is an excellent policy, it’s amazing how no one seems fazed by it. Under Trump, we would have had pages and pages of outrage, claiming this policy was “racist.” But it’s Biden, so I guess it’s all good now! 🙄

I agree on this one and I'm a democrat.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US is now requiring a negative COVID test for travelers from China. While I think this is an excellent policy, it’s amazing how no one seems fazed by it. Under Trump, we would have had pages and pages of outrage, claiming this policy was “racist.” But it’s Biden, so I guess it’s all good now! 🙄

I agree on this one and I'm a democrat.

Ooh actually I disagree. I think it's useless to test travelers from China at this time in the pandemic. I do agree that if Trump put this policy into place there would be outcry over racism (I do NOT like Trump FWIW).

They’re not starting the testing for a few more days, which is insane.

And the reason no one is decrying this as racist is because Biden hasn’t spent his presidency being a racist POS like Trump. And we’ve watched China eff up covid, lie about how it’s going, refuse to vaccinate their people and just generally make this as bad as possible. And here we go again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US is now requiring a negative COVID test for travelers from China. While I think this is an excellent policy, it’s amazing how no one seems fazed by it. Under Trump, we would have had pages and pages of outrage, claiming this policy was “racist.” But it’s Biden, so I guess it’s all good now! 🙄

Well, China wasn't allowing any US folk in for a while, and had mandatory covid tests for even it's own citizens. They're just being treated the way they treated others. I don't see a problem, personally. I think non US persons still need to have proof of vaccine , and China's vaccines aren't great at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:China locked down because they wanted more information and date on the virus after it was exported.

The rub is, China knows less about it now than in 2020 as the “vaccinated” west now deals with populations that could handle things like rsv and strep A but pose a new challenge.

So China is going to have all sorts of issues beyond Covid.

Their plan was to wait out, use the world as their Petri dish but their population got tired of their plan. Xi realized he needed another 2-5 years for his plan to play out and went to plan b.

China is having all kinds of issues because their vaccines weren't the same as the western mRNA vaccines and were nowhere near as effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China locked down because they wanted more information and date on the virus after it was exported.

The rub is, China knows less about it now than in 2020 as the “vaccinated” west now deals with populations that could handle things like rsv and strep A but pose a new challenge.

So China is going to have all sorts of issues beyond Covid.

Their plan was to wait out, use the world as their Petri dish but their population got tired of their plan. Xi realized he needed another 2-5 years for his plan to play out and went to plan b.

China is having all kinds of issues because their vaccines weren't the same as the western mRNA vaccines and were nowhere near as effective.

+1.