Student Behavior - Starting to Fall Apart?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

Funny. I'm not in disagreement, but have you read any of the thread about schools' no-homework policies? There are plenty of parents who are not happy that their children aren't bringing home work after spending over 6.5 hours in school each day.

DP. I think the school day is too long and that kids should actually get homework. I also think that block scheduling is detrimental to learning, especially long term learning.

Well colleges in a sense do block learning. You either have classes M, W, F or Tues, Th.

Middle school and high school students are not high school students. Middle school and high school is not college.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?

For some reason, some people think they should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

Funny. I'm not in disagreement, but have you read any of the thread about schools' no-homework policies? There are plenty of parents who are not happy that their children aren't bringing home work after spending over 6.5 hours in school each day.

DP. I think the school day is too long and that kids should actually get homework. I also think that block scheduling is detrimental to learning, especially long term learning.

Well colleges in a sense do block learning. You either have classes M, W, F or Tues, Th.

Middle school and high school students are not high school students. Middle school and high school is not college.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?

For some reason, some people think they should be.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?? I’ve noticed that my son is more organized, has more time to complete work and study for classes, and overall more balanced homework. I love it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

Funny. I'm not in disagreement, but have you read any of the thread about schools' no-homework policies? There are plenty of parents who are not happy that their children aren't bringing home work after spending over 6.5 hours in school each day.

DP. I think the school day is too long and that kids should actually get homework. I also think that block scheduling is detrimental to learning, especially long term learning.

Well colleges in a sense do block learning. You either have classes M, W, F or Tues, Th.

Middle school and high school students are not high school students. Middle school and high school is not college.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?

For some reason, some people think they should be.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?? I’ve noticed that my son is more organized, has more time to complete work and study for classes, and overall more balanced homework. I love it!

For some classes, such as math, foreign language, and music/band/strings/chorus, consistent daily practice is a better way to learn than longer less frequent periods. For some classes such as English and science, a longer period gives more time for in-depth discussion or a lab, but even those don't happen in every single class.

Since a block schedule is every other day, the teacher plans for two lessons in the 90 minute period - but neither teachers nor students can focus on one subject that long so some material is dropped or not absorbed. Ultimately, the kids cover less content or learn more shallowly. And if they have any homework at all, it is less, since teachers assign single homework rather than double.

[Anonymous]

This is not special education students.

This is not immigrants.

This is pervasive casual disrespect from students. It’s everywhere. Students have no natural respect for teachers anymore. I’m very worried about the future if this is what our children think is okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

Funny. I'm not in disagreement, but have you read any of the thread about schools' no-homework policies? There are plenty of parents who are not happy that their children aren't bringing home work after spending over 6.5 hours in school each day.

DP. I think the school day is too long and that kids should actually get homework. I also think that block scheduling is detrimental to learning, especially long term learning.

Well colleges in a sense do block learning. You either have classes M, W, F or Tues, Th.

Middle school and high school students are not high school students. Middle school and high school is not college.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?

For some reason, some people think they should be.

What is so detrimental about block scheduling?? I’ve noticed that my son is more organized, has more time to complete work and study for classes, and overall more balanced homework. I love it!

For some classes, such as math, foreign language, and music/band/strings/chorus, consistent daily practice is a better way to learn than longer less frequent periods. For some classes such as English and science, a longer period gives more time for in-depth discussion or a lab, but even those don't happen in every single class.

Since a block schedule is every other day, the teacher plans for two lessons in the 90 minute period - but neither teachers nor students can focus on one subject that long so some material is dropped or not absorbed. Ultimately, the kids cover less content or learn more shallowly. And if they have any homework at all, it is less, since teachers assign single homework rather than double.

I like less homework. And I like that they have longer class periods to complete work in class. Win win.

[Anonymous]

In a 90 minute block I teach 30 minutes of content since that’s all anyone can handle. 1 standard for 30 minutes (broken into 2-15 minute segments with a “brain break” in between, 15 minute lecture, 5 brain break, 15 minute 2nd half lecture, another 5 minute brain break) then give them 45 minutes to practice it.

In a 45 minute period I teach half the standard’s content for 15 minutes, and give them 30 minutes to practice. Much more manageable amount of content to master at one time. Easier to catch strugglers earlier in the lesson so that struggles don’t compound. Tougher with behavior issues because it takes 5 minutes to settle kids at the beginning of the period though, so that’s 10 minutes lost across two classes instead of 5 minutes (but saved with lack of brain breaks).

—middle school math teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a 90 minute block I teach 30 minutes of content since that’s all anyone can handle. 1 standard for 30 minutes (broken into 2-15 minute segments with a “brain break” in between, 15 minute lecture, 5 brain break, 15 minute 2nd half lecture, another 5 minute brain break) then give them 45 minutes to practice it.

In a 45 minute period I teach half the standard’s content for 15 minutes, and give them 30 minutes to practice. Much more manageable amount of content to master at one time. Easier to catch strugglers earlier in the lesson so that struggles don’t compound. Tougher with behavior issues because it takes 5 minutes to settle kids at the beginning of the period though, so that’s 10 minutes lost across two classes instead of 5 minutes (but saved with lack of brain breaks).

—middle school math teacher

Very helpful, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not special education students.

This is not immigrants.

This is pervasive casual disrespect from students. It’s everywhere. Students have no natural respect for teachers anymore. I’m very worried about the future if this is what our children think is okay.

Well, when their parents spend all this time calling teachers lazy, groomers, and other lovely things, it’s kind of inevitable.

School problems start in the home, but many parents don’t want to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in kindergarten kids are rolling their eyes and talking back.

Lots of back talk and over the top reactions to not getting their way. I’d usually have one difficult student but now I have 4-5. It’s a lot and it makes most days feel like a marathon.

Me at work to my 4th graders: “You have a lot of attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to subtract.”

Umm... you have 4th graders that don't know how to subtract? That seems the larger issue here.

Not the PP but just STOP! Student behavior is a huge issue and it gets in the way of good teaching and learning. Unless you are in the classroom trying to put out 5-7 behavioral fires before lunch and again after-Just STOP!

Exactly!

My DD's 4th grade class has had to evacuate the classroom TWICE this week. Just let that sink in. Today is Wednesday - a holiday - and both Monday and Tuesday they were evacuated. Why? An unruly student. Same student both times. And when they evacuate, it's not for short periods of time, either. DD said on Monday it was almost 2 hours, and the email from the teacher on yesterday's incident said that the students went to Miss M.'s classroom during the duration while her class was out of the room at art class. On Monday the students were taken to the library after 30 minutes when it appeared that they weren't going to get the student calmed quickly. DD said they were told to read books quietly but she said most kids just talked about the incident and all the things the student threw around the classroom.

So, 2 hours on Monday without any constructive learning. Then once the student was out of the room and the room was restored, there was another short period where the teacher talked with the kids about the incident to calm any fears, so maybe another 30 minutes of instruction gone. By then she said they did their math unit and it was the end of the day. So Monday my kid's day was independent reading & journal time, history, PE, lunch, recess, science for a bit until the incident happened, library for 2 hours, and a shortened math unit before dismissal.

This is now the 5th disturbance in her classroom since the school year started. Unacceptable and I know lots of parents spent today emailing the principal about just how unacceptable it is.

I had to evacuate my class many times last year. I also had to re arrange furniture (climbing), hide things (throwing) and took risks using my computer, smart board, etc on a daily basis.

My whole class schedule had to be restructured and no normal things could be done well because of the constant support and 1:1 this one child needed. There are no other human bodies to help. It takes months to get any sort of IEP in place but you can’t do an IEP based on class behavior alone.

It was a very tiring year. And I had many other challenges on top of the main one.

Education really is brought down to the neediest. I don’t say that in a mean way but entire classes suffer because of one student because that’s just how the system is these days.

So very true. So much time is wasted on the few. I wish parents knew how much time is wasted on a few students. And it is wasted time since those few students often cannot be moved out of the classroom. I often take my entire class to a book room (basically a large closet) when it is clear that we won't be moving back into the classroom anytime soon. I've brought in a carpet and entire class sets of supplies.

It sounds odd to have to evacuate or move into closets. Why does this occur? If one child misbehaves, don't they get sent to the principal? Why does the class have to evacuate instead? Sorry if this is a remedial question but I haven't heard this occurring in DC'c class so I'm puzzled.

I could write a really long message about this, but this is the gist… We can’t simply send a child to the office because they’re being annoying and disrupting class. That is no longer a reason - for the past 10-15 years. Admin has made it very clear that we are to send them to the office, because interrupts THEIR learning What happens is the child becomes kind of annoying/disruptive to emotionally and physically destructive in about 10-15 seconds. So at that point our choice is to evacuate the room. The downfall is very, very quick (unfortunately).

+1, I’ve been teaching for a long time and I think part of the issue is these students used to be all over the main office - 2-10 students at a time. I think it looked really bad for the school when parents come into the main office and there’s just kids scattered everywhere. Admin wanted to stop it. So send them back to the classroom. And in all honesty, there were kids who acted up and wanted to go to the office to avoid work.

This was happening at my DCs school. I was frequent visitor to school and every time I walked into the office there were always 4-5 kids just sitting there with nothing to do. And they were always brown/black kids. This was a school in which their rep was somewhere less than 5-7%. It wasn’t a good look at all. Especially given that the offending school was in a system coming under increasing criticism for disparate discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not special education students.

This is not immigrants.

This is pervasive casual disrespect from students. It’s everywhere. Students have no natural respect for teachers anymore. I’m very worried about the future if this is what our children think is okay.

Well, when their parents spend all this time calling teachers lazy, groomers, and other lovely things, it’s kind of inevitable.

School problems start in the home, but many parents don’t want to hear that.

Yes, there has been a trend of parents disrespecting teachers as well. I’ve also had parents openly admit they just give the kids screen time when they are upset

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in kindergarten kids are rolling their eyes and talking back.

Lots of back talk and over the top reactions to not getting their way. I’d usually have one difficult student but now I have 4-5. It’s a lot and it makes most days feel like a marathon.

Me at work to my 4th graders: “You have a lot of attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to subtract.”

Umm... you have 4th graders that don't know how to subtract? That seems the larger issue here.

Not the PP but just STOP! Student behavior is a huge issue and it gets in the way of good teaching and learning. Unless you are in the classroom trying to put out 5-7 behavioral fires before lunch and again after-Just STOP!

Exactly!

My DD's 4th grade class has had to evacuate the classroom TWICE this week. Just let that sink in. Today is Wednesday - a holiday - and both Monday and Tuesday they were evacuated. Why? An unruly student. Same student both times. And when they evacuate, it's not for short periods of time, either. DD said on Monday it was almost 2 hours, and the email from the teacher on yesterday's incident said that the students went to Miss M.'s classroom during the duration while her class was out of the room at art class. On Monday the students were taken to the library after 30 minutes when it appeared that they weren't going to get the student calmed quickly. DD said they were told to read books quietly but she said most kids just talked about the incident and all the things the student threw around the classroom.

So, 2 hours on Monday without any constructive learning. Then once the student was out of the room and the room was restored, there was another short period where the teacher talked with the kids about the incident to calm any fears, so maybe another 30 minutes of instruction gone. By then she said they did their math unit and it was the end of the day. So Monday my kid's day was independent reading & journal time, history, PE, lunch, recess, science for a bit until the incident happened, library for 2 hours, and a shortened math unit before dismissal.

This is now the 5th disturbance in her classroom since the school year started. Unacceptable and I know lots of parents spent today emailing the principal about just how unacceptable it is.

Dear Parent, Thank you so much for emailing the principal about this. Seriously. Parents are the ONLY people most administrators listen to. Better yet, email the superintendent. File a class action suit. Something in this country has to change around special education laws. The right to FAPE that students with disabilities or potential disabilities have cannot come at the EXPENSE of everyone else's learning or safety. I'm a teacher who is looking for a job outside of education because it is all far too much. I can't deal, I'm out.

Unhinged, histrionic, frazzled, limited tolerance for stressful situations, weak cognitive reasoning skills, do yourself a favor and stick to working with kids l, zero chance you’d make it in the private sector. Seriously if you are having a nervous breakdown go out in disability, use the time to think about your next move. Maybe try floral arranging?

Wait a minute. Are you seriously attempting to argue that you in your private sector job have to keep 24+ children safe in an environment where people are throwing things? And you can’t touch the aggressor in anyway?
Is that what you are saying, that the private sector office work environment is similar in nature to a classroom of out of control kids?

I didn’t know black water still existed!

If you can’t command the respect of a bunch of kids… what are you going to do when your boss throws a stapler at your head. You are clearly too soft. The kids smell your fear. Get out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not special education students.

This is not immigrants.

This is pervasive casual disrespect from students. It’s everywhere. Students have no natural respect for teachers anymore. I’m very worried about the future if this is what our children think is okay.

Well, when their parents spend all this time calling teachers lazy, groomers, and other lovely things, it’s kind of inevitable.

School problems start in the home, but many parents don’t want to hear that.

Kids have NO attention span whatsoever. They melt down when they are asked to do anything significant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in kindergarten kids are rolling their eyes and talking back.

Lots of back talk and over the top reactions to not getting their way. I’d usually have one difficult student but now I have 4-5. It’s a lot and it makes most days feel like a marathon.

Me at work to my 4th graders: “You have a lot of attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to subtract.”

Umm... you have 4th graders that don't know how to subtract? That seems the larger issue here.

Not the PP but just STOP! Student behavior is a huge issue and it gets in the way of good teaching and learning. Unless you are in the classroom trying to put out 5-7 behavioral fires before lunch and again after-Just STOP!

Exactly!

My DD's 4th grade class has had to evacuate the classroom TWICE this week. Just let that sink in. Today is Wednesday - a holiday - and both Monday and Tuesday they were evacuated. Why? An unruly student. Same student both times. And when they evacuate, it's not for short periods of time, either. DD said on Monday it was almost 2 hours, and the email from the teacher on yesterday's incident said that the students went to Miss M.'s classroom during the duration while her class was out of the room at art class. On Monday the students were taken to the library after 30 minutes when it appeared that they weren't going to get the student calmed quickly. DD said they were told to read books quietly but she said most kids just talked about the incident and all the things the student threw around the classroom.

So, 2 hours on Monday without any constructive learning. Then once the student was out of the room and the room was restored, there was another short period where the teacher talked with the kids about the incident to calm any fears, so maybe another 30 minutes of instruction gone. By then she said they did their math unit and it was the end of the day. So Monday my kid's day was independent reading & journal time, history, PE, lunch, recess, science for a bit until the incident happened, library for 2 hours, and a shortened math unit before dismissal.

This is now the 5th disturbance in her classroom since the school year started. Unacceptable and I know lots of parents spent today emailing the principal about just how unacceptable it is.

Dear Parent, Thank you so much for emailing the principal about this. Seriously. Parents are the ONLY people most administrators listen to. Better yet, email the superintendent. File a class action suit. Something in this country has to change around special education laws. The right to FAPE that students with disabilities or potential disabilities have cannot come at the EXPENSE of everyone else's learning or safety. I'm a teacher who is looking for a job outside of education because it is all far too much. I can't deal, I'm out.

Unhinged, histrionic, frazzled, limited tolerance for stressful situations, weak cognitive reasoning skills, do yourself a favor and stick to working with kids l, zero chance you’d make it in the private sector. Seriously if you are having a nervous breakdown go out in disability, use the time to think about your next move. Maybe try floral arranging?

Wait a minute. Are you seriously attempting to argue that you in your private sector job have to keep 24+ children safe in an environment where people are throwing things? And you can’t touch the aggressor in anyway?
Is that what you are saying, that the private sector office work environment is similar in nature to a classroom of out of control kids?

I didn’t know black water still existed!

If you can’t command the respect of a bunch of kids… what are you going to do when your boss throws a stapler at your head. You are clearly too soft. The kids smell your fear. Get out!

Do bosses really throw staplers at their employees? Really? And if they do, which I doubt, you, as an adult,have recourse.

Ok, your turn...take over in a classroom, for a year, and try to teach when the kids are mildly or violently disruptive and don't stop when you tell them to. Try to teach when those kids throw things and destroy equipment and flip desks and hit other kids - and hit you. Try to teach while trying to keep the other kids safe and from erupting into chaos themselves because of the violent, disruptive kids' behavior. Try to teach in those situations when you have little to no recourse, little to no support from admin and parents...you basically are on your own.

Let's see how tough you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in kindergarten kids are rolling their eyes and talking back.

Lots of back talk and over the top reactions to not getting their way. I’d usually have one difficult student but now I have 4-5. It’s a lot and it makes most days feel like a marathon.

Me at work to my 4th graders: “You have a lot of attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to subtract.”

Umm... you have 4th graders that don't know how to subtract? That seems the larger issue here.

Not the PP but just STOP! Student behavior is a huge issue and it gets in the way of good teaching and learning. Unless you are in the classroom trying to put out 5-7 behavioral fires before lunch and again after-Just STOP!

Exactly!

My DD's 4th grade class has had to evacuate the classroom TWICE this week. Just let that sink in. Today is Wednesday - a holiday - and both Monday and Tuesday they were evacuated. Why? An unruly student. Same student both times. And when they evacuate, it's not for short periods of time, either. DD said on Monday it was almost 2 hours, and the email from the teacher on yesterday's incident said that the students went to Miss M.'s classroom during the duration while her class was out of the room at art class. On Monday the students were taken to the library after 30 minutes when it appeared that they weren't going to get the student calmed quickly. DD said they were told to read books quietly but she said most kids just talked about the incident and all the things the student threw around the classroom.

So, 2 hours on Monday without any constructive learning. Then once the student was out of the room and the room was restored, there was another short period where the teacher talked with the kids about the incident to calm any fears, so maybe another 30 minutes of instruction gone. By then she said they did their math unit and it was the end of the day. So Monday my kid's day was independent reading & journal time, history, PE, lunch, recess, science for a bit until the incident happened, library for 2 hours, and a shortened math unit before dismissal.

This is now the 5th disturbance in her classroom since the school year started. Unacceptable and I know lots of parents spent today emailing the principal about just how unacceptable it is.

Dear Parent, Thank you so much for emailing the principal about this. Seriously. Parents are the ONLY people most administrators listen to. Better yet, email the superintendent. File a class action suit. Something in this country has to change around special education laws. The right to FAPE that students with disabilities or potential disabilities have cannot come at the EXPENSE of everyone else's learning or safety. I'm a teacher who is looking for a job outside of education because it is all far too much. I can't deal, I'm out.

Unhinged, histrionic, frazzled, limited tolerance for stressful situations, weak cognitive reasoning skills, do yourself a favor and stick to working with kids l, zero chance you’d make it in the private sector. Seriously if you are having a nervous breakdown go out in disability, use the time to think about your next move. Maybe try floral arranging?

Wait a minute. Are you seriously attempting to argue that you in your private sector job have to keep 24+ children safe in an environment where people are throwing things? And you can’t touch the aggressor in anyway?
Is that what you are saying, that the private sector office work environment is similar in nature to a classroom of out of control kids?

I didn’t know black water still existed!

If you can’t command the respect of a bunch of kids… what are you going to do when your boss throws a stapler at your head. You are clearly too soft. The kids smell your fear. Get out!

Do bosses really throw staplers at their employees? Really? And if they do, which I doubt, you, as an adult,have recourse.

Ok, your turn...take over in a classroom, for a year, and try to teach when the kids are mildly or violently disruptive and don't stop when you tell them to. Try to teach when those kids throw things and destroy equipment and flip desks and hit other kids - and hit you. Try to teach while trying to keep the other kids safe and from erupting into chaos themselves because of the violent, disruptive kids' behavior. Try to teach in those situations when you have little to no recourse, little to no support from admin and parents...you basically are on your own.

Let's see how tough you are.

I think this poster was being facetious and making fun of the other poster who said teachers couldn't hack it in the private sector.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not special education students.

This is not immigrants.

This is pervasive casual disrespect from students. It’s everywhere. Students have no natural respect for teachers anymore. I’m very worried about the future if this is what our children think is okay.

Well, when their parents spend all this time calling teachers lazy, groomers, and other lovely things, it’s kind of inevitable.

School problems start in the home, but many parents don’t want to hear that.

Kids have NO attention span whatsoever. They melt down when they are asked to do anything significant.

They also feel they should not have to wait for anything. The whining is crazy.