Student Behavior - Starting to Fall Apart?

[Anonymous]

Public schools have become the bottom of the barrel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public schools have become the bottom of the barrel.

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Because (1) class sizes are two big for one teacher to meet all students' needs, (2) parents do not set limits at home and kids can't focus on basic learning (a,b,c, basic math) and (3) kids are addicted to technology and have to idea how to focus and actually learn something. Just like their parents, unfortunatelly. It's alarming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public schools have become the bottom of the barrel.

So has the GOP and the parents who can't parent. Guess we all have complaints.

[Anonymous]

“ The 50 percent rule, he said, created “an environment where students can come to school to pop their heads into the classroom to tell the teacher to mark them present, which the teacher is required to do, then proceed to socialize, wander the halls, flirt, fight, walk to the corner store for some food and come back, play games in the gym or atrium, vandalize school property, pop in on the few friends who chose to go to their class, disrupting everyone, and generally live a free and happy life without consequences.”



https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/10/23/dc-schools-grading-policy-50-percent-rule/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even in kindergarten kids are rolling their eyes and talking back.

Lots of back talk and over the top reactions to not getting their way. I’d usually have one difficult student but now I have 4-5. It’s a lot and it makes most days feel like a marathon.

Me at work to my 4th graders: “You have a lot of attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to subtract.”

Umm... you have 4th graders that don't know how to subtract? That seems the larger issue here.

Not the PP but just STOP! Student behavior is a huge issue and it gets in the way of good teaching and learning. Unless you are in the classroom trying to put out 5-7 behavioral fires before lunch and again after-Just STOP!

Exactly!

My DD's 4th grade class has had to evacuate the classroom TWICE this week. Just let that sink in. Today is Wednesday - a holiday - and both Monday and Tuesday they were evacuated. Why? An unruly student. Same student both times. And when they evacuate, it's not for short periods of time, either. DD said on Monday it was almost 2 hours, and the email from the teacher on yesterday's incident said that the students went to Miss M.'s classroom during the duration while her class was out of the room at art class. On Monday the students were taken to the library after 30 minutes when it appeared that they weren't going to get the student calmed quickly. DD said they were told to read books quietly but she said most kids just talked about the incident and all the things the student threw around the classroom.

So, 2 hours on Monday without any constructive learning. Then once the student was out of the room and the room was restored, there was another short period where the teacher talked with the kids about the incident to calm any fears, so maybe another 30 minutes of instruction gone. By then she said they did their math unit and it was the end of the day. So Monday my kid's day was independent reading & journal time, history, PE, lunch, recess, science for a bit until the incident happened, library for 2 hours, and a shortened math unit before dismissal.

This is now the 5th disturbance in her classroom since the school year started. Unacceptable and I know lots of parents spent today emailing the principal about just how unacceptable it is.

Dear Parent, Thank you so much for emailing the principal about this. Seriously. Parents are the ONLY people most administrators listen to. Better yet, email the superintendent. File a class action suit. Something in this country has to change around special education laws. The right to FAPE that students with disabilities or potential disabilities have cannot come at the EXPENSE of everyone else's learning or safety. I'm a teacher who is looking for a job outside of education because it is all far too much. I can't deal, I'm out.

Unhinged, histrionic, frazzled, limited tolerance for stressful situations, weak cognitive reasoning skills, do yourself a favor and stick to working with kids l, zero chance you’d make it in the private sector. Seriously if you are having a nervous breakdown go out in disability, use the time to think about your next move. Maybe try floral arranging?

Wait a minute. Are you seriously attempting to argue that you in your private sector job have to keep 24+ children safe in an environment where people are throwing things? And you can’t touch the aggressor in anyway?
Is that what you are saying, that the private sector office work environment is similar in nature to a classroom of out of control kids?

I didn’t know black water still existed!

If you can’t command the respect of a bunch of kids… what are you going to do when your boss throws a stapler at your head. You are clearly too soft. The kids smell your fear. Get out!

Do bosses really throw staplers at their employees? Really? And if they do, which I doubt, you, as an adult,have recourse.

Ok, your turn...take over in a classroom, for a year, and try to teach when the kids are mildly or violently disruptive and don't stop when you tell them to. Try to teach when those kids throw things and destroy equipment and flip desks and hit other kids - and hit you. Try to teach while trying to keep the other kids safe and from erupting into chaos themselves because of the violent, disruptive kids' behavior. Try to teach in those situations when you have little to no recourse, little to no support from admin and parents...you basically are on your own.

Let's see how tough you are.

Honestly, you sound incredibly high-strung and a hot mess. Maybe you really should just quit. What are you waiting for?

Your classroom management skills sound non-existent. Perhaps there is something in your personality or background that causes you to become easily flustered, which might be causing you to overreact, and start talking too much and too fast in one of those high-pitched frantic voices. I'm getting that feeling from your writing. Like in your mind, when little Johnny gets an attitude, you immediately run through the worst-case scenario in your head. Johnny just talked out of turn, becomes Johnny is going to flip the desk, trip Becky, and pull out a knife and cut me... oh no react, react, react. Next thing you know you are trembling and screeching for help. Pushing Johnny out of the classroom because you can't deal, the problem is the kids are watching you and how you handle yourself.

Kids smell weakness. And they can be awful little savages you can't let them get the upper hand... I loved the book the Lord of the Flies. Everything I needed to know about kids... Stop being a Piggy and take control of your classroom.

Keep running your ignorant yap. Hope your kids enjoy their parade of rotating, wildly unqualified subs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s because y’all shut down the schools. All those promises of being there for the children vanished once teachers and the staff got afraid. And you left vulnerable kids to fend for themselves. So trust is greatly diminished. It’s going to take years, with the right approach. And as so far, the public schools haven’t changed much. So it may be never.

It’s the parents’ job to fend for them.

Not all parents do.

You see, many teachers know this. And for years they have been attentive to those kids. And then all of a sudden, poof, no more.

Not their job. Do yours, Mama Bear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public schools have become the bottom of the barrel.

We intentionally bought a house near a school with a language immersion program because we wanted that opportunity for our kids. We love it, it has been great for DS. The kids tend to be well behaved and the program has been a gem. Class sizes started out large but are in the teens now because kids cannot enter after first grade unless they speak the language at home. DS is not going to be fluent in the language but he will end up a few years ahead of his peers and can knock out 2 years of high school language in MS and he has had far fewer behavior issues in his class.

The program is attractive to parents who are involved in their kids education because we all knew that we would need to reinforce with homework in order to make sure that all the material is being learned. Participation is an active choice. Love it.

Private schools work for families because Parents are choosing to make them work. They have a financial investment in their kids school. They have smaller classes because people are paying for smaller classes. There are fewer behavior issues because parents are paying to be at a school that doesn't allow poorly behaved kids entrance or removes them from the school if the behavior is too out of control.

Public schools still work for a lot of people but parents need to be invested in their kids learning. You are not able to just send your kids to school and forget about it. Public schools don't have those choices so Parents have to be involved and have to be willing to do some extra work at home. If you are expecting to simply send your kid to a Public School and they will learn, you are going to be disappointed. But I would say the same thing for most private schools. Then again, parents at private schools are financially invested so the parents are more likely to make sure that their child is doing what they need to do in order to make that investment pay off.

The problem with Public Schools is too many parents are checked out and their kids know it. The kids that are not behaving at school are not behaving at home. The Teachers know it and the admin know it. That kid who is melting down in class and causes everyone to evacuate the class? They are doing that at home. The parents are either desperate to get the kid into a special program to help and the process is getting int he way or the parents refuse to see a problem and are fighting the school. The parents who want to avoid that crap look for the special programs, the magnet schools, LI programs, or AAP in FCPS. Because they want their kids to learn and they want to avoid those issues as much as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. We have done testing, therapy, and medication. We don't give in to any whims at home. We run a much stricter household than most other families (i.e. no screens, no junk food, very strict bed times) because we have to to maintain stability. We want all of the labels and help we can get. It's very, very difficult to figure out what to do, and we've been on endless waiting lists for mental health providers. But I am used to the dismissive judgement that we are lazy, clueless, selfish parents, and know I won't be able to change many people's minds. Posting this here just to let you know that the work we are doing as parents is likely double to triple the work that you and other parents of NT kids are doing on the daily.

But I also want and need my child to be educated. And the majority of the day he is a fine student; bright, friendly, helpful. But when he gets triggered he loses his mind and yes it's disruptive. However, it would not work to put him in a box alone all day. he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. We have done testing, therapy, and medication. We don't give in to any whims at home. We run a much stricter household than most other families (i.e. no screens, no junk food, very strict bed times) because we have to to maintain stability. We want all of the labels and help we can get. It's very, very difficult to figure out what to do, and we've been on endless waiting lists for mental health providers. But I am used to the dismissive judgement that we are lazy, clueless, selfish parents, and know I won't be able to change many people's minds. Posting this here just to let you know that the work we are doing as parents is likely double to triple the work that you and other parents of NT kids are doing on the daily.

But I also want and need my child to be educated. And the majority of the day he is a fine student; bright, friendly, helpful. But when he gets triggered he loses his mind and yes it's disruptive. However, it would not work to put him in a box alone all day. he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

In my past 20 years of teaching, I find that you’re in the minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. . . .

he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

NP.

I agree your child has a legal right to an education; every child in the U.S. has that right.

Problematic, however, is how you define “the same as every other child.”

If you define that as your child being entitled to “full inclusion” (which is the “I” in DEI) in a regular general education class, then that necessarily implies he has the right to throw chairs and flip desks in general education.

FCPS standard procedure in that case is to evacuate the entire class, leaving your child alone in the room, and necessarily halting any education during his outbursts.

FCPS procedure for chair-throwing is depriving every other child their right to an education.

And that is only one problem with FCPS’ extreme interpretation of DEI.

Your child deserves a separate class with specialist teachers better trained to handle his needs.

Sorry if a separate class isn’t the “inclusion” you would like to have in some imaginary, ideal world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. . . .

he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

NP.

I agree your child has a legal right to an education; every child in the U.S. has that right.

Problematic, however, is how you define “the same as every other child.”

If you define that as your child being entitled to “full inclusion” (which is the “I” in DEI) in a regular general education class, then that necessarily implies he has the right to throw chairs and flip desks in general education.

FCPS standard procedure in that case is to evacuate the entire class, leaving your child alone in the room, and necessarily halting any education during his outbursts.

FCPS procedure for chair-throwing is depriving every other child their right to an education.

And that is only one problem with FCPS’ extreme interpretation of DEI.

Your child deserves a separate class with specialist teachers better trained to handle his needs.

Sorry if a separate class isn’t the “inclusion” you would like to have in some imaginary, ideal world.

You revived a 3 year old thread for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. . . .

he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

NP.

I agree your child has a legal right to an education; every child in the U.S. has that right.

Problematic, however, is how you define “the same as every other child.”

If you define that as your child being entitled to “full inclusion” (which is the “I” in DEI) in a regular general education class, then that necessarily implies he has the right to throw chairs and flip desks in general education.

FCPS standard procedure in that case is to evacuate the entire class, leaving your child alone in the room, and necessarily halting any education during his outbursts.

FCPS procedure for chair-throwing is depriving every other child their right to an education.

And that is only one problem with FCPS’ extreme interpretation of DEI.

Your child deserves a separate class with specialist teachers better trained to handle his needs.

Sorry if a separate class isn’t the “inclusion” you would like to have in some imaginary, ideal world.

You revived a 3 year old thread for this?

3 years later, is it still FCPS inclusion policy to evacuate the entire class over the single student’s chair-throwing or desk-tipping, every day it happens?

Yes. Yes it is still the policy, just as it’s still the DEI / inclusion policy to keep highly disruptive students in class, along with students who commit weapons violations, make threats, draw hate-symbols. The education of all students is being harmed by FCPS’s policies.

Until suspensions, expulsions, appropriate settings for SPED-learners, and meaningful discipline policies are reintroduced across FCPS, parents need to keep bring this topic up, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. . . .

he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

NP.

I agree your child has a legal right to an education; every child in the U.S. has that right.

Problematic, however, is how you define “the same as every other child.”

If you define that as your child being entitled to “full inclusion” (which is the “I” in DEI) in a regular general education class, then that necessarily implies he has the right to throw chairs and flip desks in general education.

FCPS standard procedure in that case is to evacuate the entire class, leaving your child alone in the room, and necessarily halting any education during his outbursts.

FCPS procedure for chair-throwing is depriving every other child their right to an education.

And that is only one problem with FCPS’ extreme interpretation of DEI.

Your child deserves a separate class with specialist teachers better trained to handle his needs.

Sorry if a separate class isn’t the “inclusion” you would like to have in some imaginary, ideal world.

You revived a 3 year old thread for this?

And, not only is it damaging to the instruction of the day, it is also upsetting to all the other kids and the teachers. This is not a ten minute "break" from the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. . . .

he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

NP.

I agree your child has a legal right to an education; every child in the U.S. has that right.

Problematic, however, is how you define “the same as every other child.”

If you define that as your child being entitled to “full inclusion” (which is the “I” in DEI) in a regular general education class, then that necessarily implies he has the right to throw chairs and flip desks in general education.

FCPS standard procedure in that case is to evacuate the entire class, leaving your child alone in the room, and necessarily halting any education during his outbursts.

FCPS procedure for chair-throwing is depriving every other child their right to an education.

And that is only one problem with FCPS’ extreme interpretation of DEI.

Your child deserves a separate class with specialist teachers better trained to handle his needs.

Sorry if a separate class isn’t the “inclusion” you would like to have in some imaginary, ideal world.

You revived a 3 year old thread for this?

And, not only is it damaging to the instruction of the day, it is also upsetting to all the other kids and the teachers. This is not a ten minute "break" from the day.

From what my DC describes, when this happens it is often the most amusing part of the day, as in its breaks up the monotony, and gives them all something to titter about. A welcome respite from endless dull worksheets.

He was once in a classroom where a student threw a stapler across a room, now that was something, as he was excitedly telling me the story I couldn't help but be reminded of that time when a very successful, attorney, one dubbed the puppet master of the capital hill and all things banking legislation, threw a stapler at his secretary. Her offense she'd ordered him a tuna sandwich... he hated tuna sandwiches. He didn't hit her with the stapler, but he did hit her with the tuna sandwich that he threw shortly thereafter, Why? Because he was angry that he missed with the stapler.

Don't fret. Some of these problem children are destined to become their generations CEOs and other titans of industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s what happens when you have poor administration.

That's what happens when you have poor parenting.

The chair throwing, desk flipping students need psychological help (testing, medication, therapy, etc). That is hard for parents to admit to themselves. It’s a long road and they’d rather avoid it. They give in to the child’s every whim at home, which they don’t get a school (thus the outbursts). Unfortunately, these issues don’t go away on their own and as the child gets physically bigger the risk of another student or teacher being harmed increases.

In my experience, all parents deny and ignore at the beginning. Getting them over that hump to see the reality can be challenging. They don’t want their kid “labeled”, but, sadly, the kids at school have already socially labeled them.

I am a parent of a chair throwing desk flipping student and your analysis is dead wrong. . . .

he does have a legal right to an education the same as every other child.

Mental health is a serious problem in this country, and your child's education will be effected if we can't collectively figure it out.

NP.

I agree your child has a legal right to an education; every child in the U.S. has that right.

Problematic, however, is how you define “the same as every other child.”

If you define that as your child being entitled to “full inclusion” (which is the “I” in DEI) in a regular general education class, then that necessarily implies he has the right to throw chairs and flip desks in general education.

FCPS standard procedure in that case is to evacuate the entire class, leaving your child alone in the room, and necessarily halting any education during his outbursts.

FCPS procedure for chair-throwing is depriving every other child their right to an education.

And that is only one problem with FCPS’ extreme interpretation of DEI.

Your child deserves a separate class with specialist teachers better trained to handle his needs.

Sorry if a separate class isn’t the “inclusion” you would like to have in some imaginary, ideal world.

You revived a 3 year old thread for this?

3 years later, is it still FCPS inclusion policy to evacuate the entire class over the single student’s chair-throwing or desk-tipping, every day it happens?

Yes. Yes it is still the policy, just as it’s still the DEI / inclusion policy to keep highly disruptive students in class, along with students who commit weapons violations, make threats, draw hate-symbols. The education of all students is being harmed by FCPS’s policies.

Until suspensions, expulsions, appropriate settings for SPED-learners, and meaningful discipline policies are reintroduced across FCPS, parents need to keep bring this topic up, unfortunately.

Least restrictive environment is VA law not just fcps policy.