Abortion and religion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

I'm not and I don't. But you should never have to apologize for making political decisions consistent with your morals and understanding of the world. You have a spine, that's a good thing.

You are free to practice your religion all you want. But you can’t FORCE it on others.

When you abort a child you are imposing quite a bit. Just saying.

I’m not forcing anyone to get an abortion. Having a choice for one’s own body is not imposing on anyone else.

And what of the child’s body? Really it all hinges on what we understand the child (fetus) to be.

No, it hinges on a woman’s right to control her body - it’s about her life.

She’s the only living, breathing person at stake here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You - quite literally - do not believe in the Constitution or the 1st Amendment if you believe the government should implement your religion’s policy choices on the whole of the country.

If you’ve ever described yourself as “patriot” please stop. You’re not one. Far from it, actually.

I was able to articulate and share my views without attacking you personally. Maybe you can try this, too.

It’s 11:00. Shouldn’t you be at Mass, oh holy one?

I’ve already done that and now I am spreading the culture of life. You are part of my apostolate today!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

The process corrupted by religious extremists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

Civil liberties should not be determined through a vote. That's the crux of our constitution which fundamentally limits what government can do. Also, if our democracy actually worked, this would be a no brainer as the majority of Americans support abortion access and have done so consistently for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

Civil liberties should not be determined through a vote. That's the crux of our constitution which fundamentally limits what government can do. Also, if our democracy actually worked, this would be a no brainer as the majority of Americans support abortion access and have done so consistently for decades.

I am familiar with the concept of civil liberties but it seems this whole debate is premised on the Supreme Court rejecting such a right.

Can you survive with abortion rights in your state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

Sounds like a twisted attempt to infringe on freedom of religion for a minority religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

I respect and appreciate your position and also the thoughtful way in which you've outlined it here. I don't have a problem with your religion informing your opinion (I believe people of good faith can disagree), but I am very concerned that the SC has become so politicized that we no longer have justices who are able to separate their personal beliefs from the laws on which they are ruling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

Civil liberties should not be determined through a vote. That's the crux of our constitution which fundamentally limits what government can do. Also, if our democracy actually worked, this would be a no brainer as the majority of Americans support abortion access and have done so consistently for decades.

I am familiar with the concept of civil liberties but it seems this whole debate is premised on the Supreme Court rejecting such a right.

Can you survive with abortion rights in your state?

Corrupted by religious extremists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

I respect and appreciate your position and also the thoughtful way in which you've outlined it here. I don't have a problem with your religion informing your opinion (I believe people of good faith can disagree), but I am very concerned that the SC has become so politicized that we no longer have justices who are able to separate their personal beliefs from the laws on which they are ruling.

To be honest, I share your view, and while I have longed opposed Roe, I feel like this ruling comes at a particularly fraught moment, and it gives me pause.

I feel that we must all be mindful of the value of the center, the middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

Your views on when life begins have no basis in science and are completely based on your own personal religious beliefs. Passing laws that limit women's choices based on your religious beliefs is very much a violation of the constitution. You're correct that we currently have a religious SCOTUS looking to model the Iranian revolution but it won't last in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

I respect and appreciate your position and also the thoughtful way in which you've outlined it here. I don't have a problem with your religion informing your opinion (I believe people of good faith can disagree), but I am very concerned that the SC has become so politicized that we no longer have justices who are able to separate their personal beliefs from the laws on which they are ruling.

To be honest, I share your view, and while I have longed opposed Roe, I feel like this ruling comes at a particularly fraught moment, and it gives me pause.

I feel that we must all be mindful of the value of the center, the middle.

The “center” does not infringe on the liberties of others because of their own religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

Civil liberties should not be determined through a vote. That's the crux of our constitution which fundamentally limits what government can do. Also, if our democracy actually worked, this would be a no brainer as the majority of Americans support abortion access and have done so consistently for decades.

I am familiar with the concept of civil liberties but it seems this whole debate is premised on the Supreme Court rejecting such a right.

Can you survive with abortion rights in your state?

And I think this decision is Dred Scott and Plessy vs. Ferguson levels of wrong. It basically says a pregnant woman carrying a fetus has fewer rights than a parent who is the only organ match to their living, breathing child. In the latter case, the state can absolutely not compel the parent to donate a kidney (an act that carries a miniscule likelihood of death)...but in the former the state has the right to compel the parent to donate the use of her entire body for several months (an act that carries a much higher risk of death or permanent injury).

This is absolutely a civil rights issue...whether the extreme religious conservatives on SCOTUS agree or not. These people were picked because they wanted to over-turn abortion access, and several of them were forced onto SCOTUS in a way that completely undermines the legitimacy of the court. They have done nothing to demonstrate to me that they are people of integrity and that I should view their interpretation of the law as anything other than ideological hackery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a practicing Catholic; I oppose abortion in most cases and I will not apologize for this.

You oppose women having the ability to make the best decisions for themselves and their families?

Why do you think it’s ok for you to force your religious beliefs on others?

I am not interested in forcing you to be Catholic or Christian.

Catholic teaching informs my world view which in turn informs the way I understand the abortion debate.

I understand you seeing this as forcing my religion on you. From my perspective far from it. Views on abortion very much hinge on your view of when life begins. A pro choice friend last week told me that a fetus is just a mass of cells. I asked them: really, is a fetus no different on essential quality from say, a mass on your leg? Neither of us was going to convince the other.

I don’t see anti abortion legislation as being directed intentionally at women, but rather protecting the life of the child. So, again, I don’t find your argument persuasive insofar as I don’t understand this issue to be about controlling or restricting women. I do appreciate your view.

From my vantage point, the whole issue turns on when life begins and when life becomes protectible by the state. I appreciate that this framing doesn’t make it easier to agree.

You are trying to FORCE your religious beliefs on others. You are infringing on others’ religious beliefs.

Where do women fit into your religious beliefs? Why are they less valuable than the fetus? What did the men who wrote your religious beliefs think about a woman’s worth?

I already rejected the argument that I am trying to force my religious beliefs on you.

The whole challenge turns on balancing the human dignity of the mother and the human dignity of the child.

Recognizing rights of the child does not in my view demean the mother.

You are absolutely FORCING your religious beliefs on others.

Why should your religious beliefs take precedence over mine?

Maybe they shouldn’t; maybe our secular policy should be determined by our democratic process.

Civil liberties should not be determined through a vote. That's the crux of our constitution which fundamentally limits what government can do. Also, if our democracy actually worked, this would be a no brainer as the majority of Americans support abortion access and have done so consistently for decades.

I am familiar with the concept of civil liberties but it seems this whole debate is premised on the Supreme Court rejecting such a right.

Can you survive with abortion rights in your state?

And I think this decision is Dred Scott and Plessy vs. Ferguson levels of wrong. It basically says a pregnant woman carrying a fetus has fewer rights than a parent who is the only organ match to their living, breathing child. In the latter case, the state can absolutely not compel the parent to donate a kidney (an act that carries a miniscule likelihood of death)...but in the former the state has the right to compel the parent to donate the use of her entire body for several months (an act that carries a much higher risk of death or permanent injury).

This is absolutely a civil rights issue...whether the extreme religious conservatives on SCOTUS agree or not. These people were picked because they wanted to over-turn abortion access, and several of them were forced onto SCOTUS in a way that completely undermines the legitimacy of the court. They have done nothing to demonstrate to me that they are people of integrity and that I should view their interpretation of the law as anything other than ideological hackery.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

This is an absolutely nauseating decision and it’s being undertaken for entirely the benefit of extremist religious people.