Abortion and religion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

You paint with broad strokes. Like…a bigot.

Then maybe the Christians should act and sound more like Jesus than Hitler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see protests outside Catholic Churches and I understand the Christian position is staunchly pro-life. But how come we never hear about any other religions’ stance on abortion? Is it not as prominent a topic in other religions? Do other religions have differing positions, and perhaps less political skin in the game? For example, I read that in some sects of Judaism the fetus is considered a part of the mother, and a “person” begins a birth (paraphrasing). And potentially, does the scotus overturn of RvW (and the GOP running with it) run some non-Christian religious voters the wrong way? I guess another way to put it is….is the pro-life Christian vote that big that it’s worth throwing all eggs in that basket (McConnell I’m lookin at you…)?

Jewish tradition cherishes the sanctity of life, including the potential of life during pregnancy, but does not believe that personhood and human rights begin with conception, but rather with birth as indicated by Exodus 21:22-23. Jewish teachings in the Torah and Talmud support the (Jewish legal) necessity of access to abortion. Judaism has a very nuanced view of abortion and is much more flexible and lenient in it's interpretations of when an abortion is not just allowed but an actual obligation. If a mothers life is endangered physically or emotionally by a pregnancy's her life takes precedence over that of a fetus. Having access to safe and legal abortion is a religious issue and one that should be decided by a women, her doctor and religious advisor when requested, not by the government. Most Jews see any restrictions on abortion as an infringement of their religious rights to observe and have the freedom to practice their religion which is different then Evangelical Christianity.

This poster is correct. Also, there is a lot of mental gymnastics in the Jewish religious space right now because (for all kinds of sociological reasons) a lot of the Orthodox population identifies as Republican/conservative (in truth, I think many are in the more liberterian camp), with a lot of influential leadership that has cast its lot with the christian evangelical right. It is a big issue because Jewish law does not align with the christian right on this issue.

further reading:
https://jewishinsider.com/2022/05/supreme-court-abortion-ruling-jewish-groups/

American Jews are nothing close to being monolithic in politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

It is not Christianity. Focus your criticism on Southern Baptists and right wing Catholics, particularly the Catholic Bishops.

[Anonymous]

Certain churches and sects are the problem.

And anyone trying to insert religion into law

We are not a theocracy, but these crazy Rs certainly are acting as such

[Anonymous]

you know what else? Unless you also oppose death penalty, I don't believe you care about "life"

Sure, you can attempt to justify it all you want with the "innocent life" bs, but it's hypocrisy and your God is judging you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

It is not Christianity. Focus your criticism on Southern Baptists and right wing Catholics, particularly the Catholic Bishops.

Every church pushing pro-life political activism from the pulpit is an issue. Sorry, that includes many Catholic churches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A) not all Christians are staunchly pro forced birth.
B) even your Christian Bible has an abortion guide for infidelity.
C) the Bible says a lot of stuff that shouldn’t be taken literally, so let’s not use the Bible as a reference for sex crimes (hint: if a woman is raped near people and doesn’t cry out loudly enough to get their attention, she should be put to death-you want that book to be your legal guide?)
D) if you haven’t heard any other takes on abortion aside from your pro forced birth friends, maybe you should broaden your friend group to include people of other religions. They discuss these topics too, and pretty much only some Catholics and evangelicals are pro forced birth.
E) 2/3 of the people in our country don’t want to revoke the right to abortions.
F) are you giving more weight to religious people’s opinions for some reason? What about agnostics and atheists?
G) why does it matter what any religion says about abortion when it comes to constitutional rights? If they feel it’s a sin, they can choose not to have abortions. Just like if they feel adultery is a sin, they can choose not to sleep around.

This. We are supposed to have separation of church and state, and freedom of religion. The whole thing is nuts.

Doesn’t all of this pro-life crap impose on my own “freedom of religion”?

Yes it does. I agree that Roe v Wade was wrongly decided. It should not have been decided based on vague "privacy" issues. It should have been decided that government laws based purely on Christian fundamentalist beliefs ("live begins at conception") is a violation of the constitutional right to separation of church and state.

[Anonymous]

My guess is that Christian lobby is paying for this, and they have a lot of money. I don't know if this is about Catholic or Evangelical or whatever denomination, it's certainly specific interest that may be common among some religious groups, which happen to have a lot of money and influence in this country. It's all about money and whoever pays for politicians. Do you think all Republican politicians are really this obsessed with pro-life rhetoric, especially "life begins at conception" and fetal personhood? No! They are paid to forward this agenda. It's not hard to understand.

Regarding other religions, they just don't happen to have so much money and influence in the USA. Some of these groups are even more restrictive than Christian denominations, but they tend to stick to their own communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see protests outside Catholic Churches and I understand the Christian position is staunchly pro-life. But how come we never hear about any other religions’ stance on abortion? Is it not as prominent a topic in other religions? Do other religions have differing positions, and perhaps less political skin in the game? For example, I read that in some sects of Judaism the fetus is considered a part of the mother, and a “person” begins a birth (paraphrasing). And potentially, does the scotus overturn of RvW (and the GOP running with it) run some non-Christian religious voters the wrong way? I guess another way to put it is….is the pro-life Christian vote that big that it’s worth throwing all eggs in that basket (McConnell I’m lookin at you…)?

Jewish tradition cherishes the sanctity of life, including the potential of life during pregnancy, but does not believe that personhood and human rights begin with conception, but rather with birth as indicated by Exodus 21:22-23. Jewish teachings in the Torah and Talmud support the (Jewish legal) necessity of access to abortion. Judaism has a very nuanced view of abortion and is much more flexible and lenient in it's interpretations of when an abortion is not just allowed but an actual obligation. If a mothers life is endangered physically or emotionally by a pregnancy's her life takes precedence over that of a fetus. Having access to safe and legal abortion is a religious issue and one that should be decided by a women, her doctor and religious advisor when requested, not by the government. Most Jews see any restrictions on abortion as an infringement of their religious rights to observe and have the freedom to practice their religion which is different then Evangelical Christianity.

This poster is correct. Also, there is a lot of mental gymnastics in the Jewish religious space right now because (for all kinds of sociological reasons) a lot of the Orthodox population identifies as Republican/conservative (in truth, I think many are in the more liberterian camp), with a lot of influential leadership that has cast its lot with the christian evangelical right. It is a big issue because Jewish law does not align with the christian right on this issue.

further reading:
https://jewishinsider.com/2022/05/supreme-court-abortion-ruling-jewish-groups/

Not sure what you are talking about.. Religious Jews have their own sects just like Christians. some Christians are very restrictive and against any extra-marital sex or birth control in marriage. But this isn't the majority and this isn't something that's easy to push politically because such extremes aren't favored by all pro-life Christians.

Similar to this Orthodox Jews are quite restrictive and controlling when it comes to reproductive rights, even more so than Christians. Women are actually under tight control when it comes to their bodies to the point where their periods and times when they are allowed intercourse are controlled by their religion and they have little privacy in this matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

+1

Anyone trying to force their religious beliefs on me and my family - and my country - is a vile POS.

What are you talking about?
You have freedom of religion. You are not oppressed
Mormons and JW's have a right to recruit new members, as do country clubs and gyms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

+1

Anyone trying to force their religious beliefs on me and my family - and my country - is a vile POS.

What are you talking about?
You have freedom of religion. You are not oppressed
Mormons and JW's have a right to recruit new members, as do country clubs and gyms

Sure.. they just don't have a right to form a government that would govern us all - those who don't belong and don't want to belong to their religion. There is this pesky thing: separation of church and state. When government starts enforcing the laws of some specific religion.. what happens to all other citizens who aren't its loyal followers? They lose their freedoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

It is not Christianity. Focus your criticism on Southern Baptists and right wing Catholics, particularly the Catholic Bishops.

Every church pushing pro-life political activism from the pulpit is an issue. Sorry, that includes many Catholic churches.

Time to get serious about treating them as political organizations and tax their donations appropriately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

You paint with broad strokes. Like…a bigot.

I’m a Christian and I don’t take offense because I know that 1) I respect women’s right to bodily autonomy 2) I believe in the separation of Church and State 3) I believe that a person can practice no religion at all and still be a good person, and that someone who loudly practices their faith is not a very faithful person at all. 4) I believe that we have a responsibility to make heaven right here on earth, that we should be improving the earth as much as we can and that we should be helping lift up those with less. You know, the least among us.

TL;DR: a hit dog hollers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

+1

Anyone trying to force their religious beliefs on me and my family - and my country - is a vile POS.

What are you talking about?
You have freedom of religion. You are not oppressed
Mormons and JW's have a right to recruit new members, as do country clubs and gyms

Wrong. The new religiously based decision handed down from the GOP’s religious tribunal is a textbook example of oppression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

It is not Christianity. Focus your criticism on Southern Baptists and right wing Catholics, particularly the Catholic Bishops.

Every church pushing pro-life political activism from the pulpit is an issue. Sorry, that includes many Catholic churches.

Time to get serious about treating them as political organizations and tax their donations appropriately.

This. Once any church lobby (whatever religion) decides to sponsor our politicians and propaganda talking-heads to forward their very specific religious agenda to alter behaviors of general population in compliance with this church's rules and traditions they are no longer exempt. They are indeed political organizations and must be taxed as such.