Do you think the left struggles with marketing because the right uses professional firms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No amount of professional PR can compete with the free publicity and support provided by left leaning entertainment industry.

The supposed "left leaning entertainment industry" is far more preoccupied with stupid shit like Will Smith slapping Chris Rock than they are with the right wing's rise to totalitarianism and destroying of democracy.

It's an easier, more immediate story. It comes with good visuals, and a narrative that we already feel ourselves to be a part of. There's really no point in being angry with "the media" or "the electorate" for getting excited about celebrities. You have to learn how to tell the stories YOU care about in ways that are going to grab people - you can't get mad at people for not being grabbed by the stories you wish they would pay attention to instead of that other one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

“sensible gun controls” = No guns for you!

Nope but thanks for proving point that right wingers here focus on fri he social issues and not bread and butter issues.

Guns are an important issue to many. Just like abortion (as noted by the recent hysterics on the left)

Why don’t you actually tell people what “sensible gun controls” are exactly? You can discuss bread and butter issues like taxes, fuel prices, inflation and job creation separately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Big tent party so there are more diverse people and views to appeal to.
2. Dems are aware that reality is complex and way beyond simplistic sound bites.
3. Thoughtful pragmatic policies are harder to condense that black and white hate mongering.

Dems do need better communicators getting the message across about inclusive democracy may be messy but it sure beats authoritarian dictatorships which is where we were heading under Trump.

Like the complex reality of “Putin’s Price Hike” ?

That one's not even that hard. Russia only accounts for a paltry 3% of US energy. The rest of the price hike is shitty commodities traders, trying to exploit a bad situation of war in Ukraine. That 97% simple enough for you?

That really doesn’t explain away an idiotic and simplistic sound bite that just emerged from the Executive Branch, but thanks for trying!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

“sensible gun controls” = No guns for you!

Nope but thanks for proving point that right wingers here focus on fri he social issues and not bread and butter issues.

Guns are an important issue to many. Just like abortion (as noted by the recent hysterics on the left)

Why don’t you actually tell people what “sensible gun controls” are exactly? You can discuss bread and butter issues like taxes, fuel prices, inflation and job creation separately.

Background checks
Requirement for license to safely use guns before being allowed to use them
Closing loopholes where criminals can go interstate and buy at gun markets
Required to be kept locked at home and not lying around where kids can get them
In Switzerland, nearly all families have guns but they are required to be locked and even separated into severla'ieces to avoid crimes of passion or accidents with kids

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Most marketing people are lefty wing. Sure thre are some right but that is not the issue. It is the message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

“sensible gun controls” = No guns for you!

Nope but thanks for proving point that right wingers here focus on fri he social issues and not bread and butter issues.

Guns are an important issue to many. Just like abortion (as noted by the recent hysterics on the left)

Why don’t you actually tell people what “sensible gun controls” are exactly? You can discuss bread and butter issues like taxes, fuel prices, inflation and job creation separately.

Background checks
Requirement for license to safely use guns before being allowed to use them
Closing loopholes where criminals can go interstate and buy at gun markets
Required to be kept locked at home and not lying around where kids can get them
In Switzerland, nearly all families have guns but they are required to be locked and even separated into severla'ieces to avoid crimes of passion or accidents with kids

Shooting yesterday in SC, a 12 year old dead so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a theory that the left has so many gaffes because the right is wealthier, more coordinated and hires professional political consulting firms at a higher frequency than the left does.

I think what happened is that the same Russians who herded Republicans to the hateful right herded Democrats to the loony left. Democrats often have trouble presenting rational arguments for a lot of positive because a. many of us refuse to take funding or market forces seriously; and b. a lot of our positions came from a meme on Twitter and have no substance, or value.

That sounds about right ideology and identity politics wise.

However in reality, many policy positions cast as part of the “loony left” (universal health care, sensible gun controls, livable wages and early childhood education for example) are centrist pragmatic in other rich countries. We come from two wealthy countries but have lived in DMV for many years. We love it here. Dear spouse votes conservative in home country. Yet He/ she supports livable wages, universal health care, public early education and sensible gun controls, and believes in science informed responses to climate change and the pandemic. All that is good for the private sector.

The right wing positions in US are increasingly not rational and hyper focus on fringe social issues such as transgender bathrooms, CRT in schools even though it is not taught anywhere, anti woke-ism, and weird conspiracy theories.

The left here should really get the message across that many of their policies are good for business, people and the planet.

You’re responding to me here. I apologize for my inability to proofread.

Anyhow: I think that, most of the time, Democrats have reasonable goals. They’re talking about proposals based on programs other countries have.

Right-wing groups often support proposals that are pretty nuts.

I think the overall quality of think tank papers on both sides has gone down a lot since 2000. If you looked at a major policy proposal analysis released in 2000, it would have been full of all sorts of interesting, original analysis.

Now, even though it’s a lot easier to get and analyze data, a lot of think tank “analyses” are just collections of talking points.

Sanders , etc. will talk about setting up a Medicare 4 All program, and the bill looks long and detailed. But then you see how the French and UK programs work and realize that Sanders et al. have made no serious effort to understand how the European programs work and the trade-offs the programs make. Sanders et al. seem to think you can make socialism happen just by waving your hands and saying you want to be social, and taxing rich people.

But, really, to copy France, you need all kinds of complicated government machinery, and you need to tax people like me to help pay for it.

And I’m actually fine with paying more for a French-style system, but, as bright and well-meaning as they may be, Sanders and AOC have no idea how to create that system. Partly because the think tank system fell apart. The think tanks just aren’t giving Sanders and AOC the information they need to do complicated things.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The left struggles because their messages suck.

Which messages suck?

Here are a few in recent years:

Defund the police
Don't worry about the price of gas. Buy an EV.
Inflation is transitory.
No need to secure the southern border. Migrants just want to claim asylum.
Nothing wrong with teaching K-3 kids about sexual orientation and gender identity.
Parents should not have a say in education.
It doesn't matter if only a few biological men are allowed to compete in women's sports.
The laptop is Russian disinformation.
We need to do away with Title 42, but members of the House still need to work from home and be able to vote by proxy.
Entertainers and professional athletes can be exempt from vaccine mandates, but everyone else is not exempt.
The threat of sanctions wasn't really intended as a deterrent as many in this administration claimed.

I know there are more. These are just off my head.

None of those are Democratic messages. Those are Republican disinformation about Democrats intended to trigger idiots and bigots.

OMG. I can't even believe the gaslighting going on here. "Disinformation"?? Those are messages directly from your party. Own it.
DP

Dp- yeah no. Most of the list is made up straw man nonsense.

+1
This thread is an excellent example of what I cited above: the GOP is one big message and everyone moves in lockstep, even to the point that they all use the same lies and distortions and then claim them as fact. That’s wacky as hell.

I’m the person saying Democrats have trouble with marketing because, even when we’re right, our proposals often lack substance. We feel as if we understand what we’re talking about but don’t.

Democrats tweaked health insurance policy. Maybe something in Dodd-Frank still does something. Maybe the Biden infrastructure bill will grow up to be something. That’s about all we’ve gotten done.

But the Republicans are actually terrible at getting anything done, too, for similar reasons.

They, and the Russians, can manipulate voters into voting for lunatics.

But Republicans in Washington have accomplished very little. About all they‘ve achieved since 1986 is that they tweaked the tax laws a bit and passed the ADA. They also created HSAs and Medicare drug plans and harassed immigrants and pregnant women. That’s about all they’ve accomplished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most marketing people are lefty wing. Sure thre are some right but that is not the issue. It is the message.

What is the great Republican message? Paranoia, Disinformation, Corruption, and Tax Cuts?

[Anonymous]

Republicans have better marketing because it is simple when you boil it down to one thing. Hate. Immigrants, democrats, the environment, individual rights, black people, brown people. Just a message of hate everything except white folk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Republicans have better marketing because it is simple when you boil it down to one thing. Hate. Immigrants, democrats, the environment, individual rights, black people, brown people. Just a message of hate everything except white folk.

Unless the white folk are even a hair left of you, in which case they are "commies."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The left struggles because their messages suck.

It’s not the framing that sucks. It’s the actual messages and actual proposals.

Speaking as a Democrat who plans to cast (an hopefully one-time) backlash vote in November, I agree. First of all, the far left lunatics who have hijacked the party are hardheaded and fascistic. They accuse anyone who doesn’t sign onto all of their excesses of being a Republican plant and they have plans to take the party even further left. They are every bit as beholden to white multimillionaires and billionaires as Republicans are, except that their masters are the fringe elements of the LGBTQ and race pimp lobby. The Democratic Party needs to suffer some painful and humiliating losses in order to abandon this foray into madness and get back on track.

Before anyone starts carrying on with a white nationalist accusations, I’m a racial minority. The idea that racial minorities sign onto this bullsh-t is complete nonsense. The numbers show that Democrats are losing racial minorities. Compare 2016 percentages to 2020 if you dare face reality.

Good plan. While you are sending “woke twitter” a message, the lunatics that republicans are electing to office are going to more forward with actual government sanctioned and enforced fascism. They are looking to roll back the clock on birth control and inter racial marriage. Good plan.

And Democrats propose to have disturbed men in women’s spaces, indoctrinate children with trans talking points under the guise of education, forgive student loans (a wealth transfer primarily to upper middle class white people NOT to the poor), and release criminals into already unsafe, predominantly minority communities. Have the white Brooklynites behind these insane criminal justice policies ever considered that impoverished Black people DO NOT WANT the local criminals back? You’re virtual signaling at the expense of my relatives’ safety. Look at how Krasner dismissed the families of Black murder victims in Philly. Not to mention Gascon putting a transgender rapist with juveniles in the name of criminal justice.

I cannot wait for November.

Literally nothing you posted is happening in my community.
I do live in a state that is on the precipice of a constitutional crisis because the republicans to gerrymander and it’s against our state constitution.
Republicans are destroying the foundation of democracy. Nothing is worse than that.

I am so very happy for you that none of the issues I mentioned affect you. Unfortunately for you, you are not my prime concern. The issues I mentioned are affecting me and my community and I will vote accordingly.

None of that matters if we don’t have democracy.

I’ll opt out of a “democracy” in which my relatives are getting assaulted and murdered by derelicts Democrats released on no bail or gave slaps on the wrist. I’ll opt out of a “democracy” in which my daughters and I have to watch an adult male dangling his penis in a woman’s locker room and then get attacked and subjected to smear campaigns a la the LA spa. I’ll opt out of a “democracy” in which upper middle class adults who graduate from top schools with top degrees get bailed out with taxpayer money never mind that the majority of Black people and the poor don’t even get degrees. That’s progressive, huh? I could go on and on, but you DGAF. We’re just faceless bodies to be sacrificed for you. My vote in November will be a very heartfelt slap in your face.

No wonder Trump loves the uneducated.

Zing! I know. As you have already written, nothing I describe is real because it doesn’t affect you personally. So, time to insult my intelligence, even though you are the one too foolish to comprehend that your condescension and solipsism are undermining support for your ideas. I hope you stay exactly as you are. The backlash is here and I wouldn’t want you and your kind turning things around before we can vote you into irrelevance first in November 2022 and then in 2024. Keep calling the rest of us stupid because we won’t let you define our priorities according to your preferences. You’re going to cry harder than you did when Hillary lost.

FYI- you are responding to several different posters here. Totally understandable, because they haven’t differentiated themselves.
But go right ahead… your vote will hurt you more than me.
I’m rich and white.

What an ally!! Scratch a progressive, find a racist. It never fails that when a person of color argues with you people, the hood slips on quickly. Why in the world wouldn’t I let someone who throws white, wealthy privilege in my face set my priorities for me? What an ally! Fortunately, since you’re wealthy and white, I’m sure you won’t mind your conservative white relatives taking another turn in power. It’s precisely because people like you have no stake in the outcome that you behave the way you do and do not hesitate to alienate the Democratic party from its base. You splinter the base with your petty, lunatic issues like how men in dresses are the new oppressed minority and then you sit back knowing you’re fine regardless. Disgusting.

You don’t know anything about me or my politics. I never said I was progressive.
Is it racist that I’m white or that I’m rich? Boy I thought only LWNJ’s threw around the “r” word without reason, but I guess not. You seem very comfortable puking it up.
I voted against my personal self interest in the last election. Skin in the game? B—- please. My family finally came into millions last year, and I voted for Biden. Even though it meant a potentially HUGE tax hike. So go ahead. Make me richer. My kid will be able to live in the nicest, safest, cleanest place. Go ahead and vote for the party that doesn’t believe in climate change. Go ahead and vote for the party that wants to suppress the opposition’s vote. Go ahead and vote for the party that wants to criminalize women’s choices. Go for it. If my kid gets knocked up, we’ll take a lovely European vacation. Your vote won’t hurt me. Slap away. You keep slapping me into a higher income bracket.

NP. Absolutely unhinged ^^^. That's all I needed to read to know this thread is just as idiotic as expected.

You sound triggered. Sucks when you realize you’re not “owning” the libz…
Just making your life worse.

"Own the libz"? You really are unhinged. I have no desire to "own" anyone. I just want people like you to stay far, far away from me. Perhaps seek help for your anger issues?

Not angry at all. Again, your vote doesn’t hurt me.
Your vote hurts you.

Here's a tip: you don't know what's best for anyone except yourself. If you can't accept that fact, you are more deeply deluded than previously suspected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No amount of professional PR can compete with the free publicity and support provided by left leaning entertainment industry.

The supposed "left leaning entertainment industry" is far more preoccupied with stupid shit like Will Smith slapping Chris Rock than they are with the right wing's rise to totalitarianism and destroying of democracy.

Aaaaaaand here we have reason 8,338,929,126,401 why no one takes you seriously. Keep it up!
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Big tent party so there are more diverse people and views to appeal to.
2. Dems are aware that reality is complex and way beyond simplistic sound bites.
3. Thoughtful pragmatic policies are harder to condense that black and white hate mongering.

Dems do need better communicators getting the message across about inclusive democracy may be messy but it sure beats authoritarian dictatorships which is where we were heading under Trump.

Like the complex reality of “Putin’s Price Hike” ?

+1
Don't forget "pee pee tapes". Snort.