For all the parents complaining that the admissions process is rigged against their kids--

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe responsible parenting is acknowledging that while top schools are a stretch for everyone, it IS unfair that qualities outside of their control and baseless to achievement are getting prioritized over what should matter and thus impacting your child's results. It's not fair and there is nothing we can do.
.

But parents on here aren't doing this. They aren't sitting their kids down and saying "look you have so many unfair advantages outside of your control, that make it more likely that you, relative to the average child of color born on the same day in this country, will end up at these schools. Statistics make that 100% clear."

They are telling their kids "every way that you are advantaged, and there are many of them, is "fair", and we will take advantage of them as much as possible. the one way that you aren't advantaged as much as people like you in previous generations is unfair, and we will whine as loudly as we can about that. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/

You are literally pointing to Harvard’s self-advocacy to make your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

+100

I think we are on the same page if you agree none of those things should be considered in admissions decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/

You are literally pointing to Harvard’s self-advocacy to make your point.

Yes. It's a counter to the allegation.

Expert analysis supports Harvard
Professor David Card, a nationally recognized expert and economics professor at the University of California at Berkeley, comprehensively analyzed Harvard College’s admissions database and concluded there was no discrimination against Asian-Americans.

This section has a PDF of expert analysis refuting the SFFA claim.

Read it. Good stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/

You are literally pointing to Harvard’s self-advocacy to make your point.

Yes. It's a counter to the allegation.

Expert analysis supports Harvard
Professor David Card, a nationally recognized expert and economics professor at the University of California at Berkeley, comprehensively analyzed Harvard College’s admissions database and concluded there was no discrimination against Asian-Americans.

This section has a PDF of expert analysis refuting the SFFA claim.

Read it. Good stuff.

I have. You are aware that there is a whole stack of expert testimony on the other side, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/

You are literally pointing to Harvard’s self-advocacy to make your point.

Yes. It's a counter to the allegation.

Expert analysis supports Harvard
Professor David Card, a nationally recognized expert and economics professor at the University of California at Berkeley, comprehensively analyzed Harvard College’s admissions database and concluded there was no discrimination against Asian-Americans.

This section has a PDF of expert analysis refuting the SFFA claim.

Read it. Good stuff.

I have. You are aware that there is a whole stack of expert testimony on the other side, right?

Yes. Asains are touting the SFFA claim / case as gospel. This is the other side of the proverbial pancake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/


So, you're citing Harvard as the source for your point that Harvard isn't discriminating. The school itself says it can't employ race-neutral admissions because that would undermine its diversity goals. Harvard is discriminating in lots of ways, just not in ways that are deemed illegal. I'd love for them to end legacy preferences and preferences for athletes of exclusive sports. That would support diversity AND end discrimination against non-elites.

But you can't support schools taking race into account and then question why parents think students have an edge or disadvantaged based on race.

[Anonymous]

Stop asking race and who the father is on college applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are visiting colleges now with our DCs. According to DCUM, we should be seeing plenty of URM « black boys » on these campuses. We simply are not. But do carry on lamenting how these Black boys are stealing your white and Asian kids’ spots at Ivy schools and How life will swing the pendulum back and will be fair again. 😏

True.

We've been on tours of the T20 schools. Across 5-10 schools, we've seen very very few URMs and almost no black males.

Most of the people on DCUM college threads are astute. They look at Common Data Sets and know the demographic stats.

I love how no one on here is acknowledging this. Again, the URM kids are "stealing" all the spots at these elite schools from more deserving white and asian kids, but the vast majority of the demographic on these campuses (white and Asian), are the the ones who actually deserve to be there, correct? How do parents know that it wasn't one of these kids who stole their child's spot? How do they know that legacy wasn't a factor, or money, or influence, or cheating, or lying? Nope, its those CLEARLY unqualified blacks and Hispanics.

No one is acknowledging this because this is not a position that people are taking. You are making up a strawman. Second, your anecdotes are meaningless against real actual data that's been published. It's undisputed fact that schools are discriminating against Asians in favor of other student demographics.

Wrong.

https://www.harvard.edu/admissionscase/key-points/


So, you're citing Harvard as the source for your point that Harvard isn't discriminating. The school itself says it can't employ race-neutral admissions because that would undermine its diversity goals. Harvard is discriminating in lots of ways, just not in ways that are deemed illegal. I'd love for them to end legacy preferences and preferences for athletes of exclusive sports. That would support diversity AND end discrimination against non-elites.

But you can't support schools taking race into account and then question why parents think students have an edge or disadvantaged based on race.

People cite SFFA's lawsuit as "proof" that Asians are being discriminated against. And?

People are free to read the lawsuit content and form their conclusions.

"Again, SFFA attempts to distort and mislead in its suggestions that the analysis showed discrimination or was somehow improperly stopped. As Dr. Card’s analysis shows, when all the data and information are included and analyzed, no evidence of discrimination exists."

I'll take this view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even at the highest-performing local public high schools, 50% of the graduating class has under roughly a 1330 on the SAT (which is just over 90th percentile nationally). Being at these high schools, although they offer great college preparation compared to worse high schools, can seriously skew one’s perception.

If 50 percent have 1330 or lower, that's outstanding. 1330 is around the 85-90th percentile nationally. The median score is around 1050. If this is, in fact, true, it's probably the case that 90-95 percent of kids at this school have scores over the national median...again, outstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe responsible parenting is acknowledging that while top schools are a stretch for everyone, it IS unfair that qualities outside of their control and baseless to achievement are getting prioritized over what should matter and thus impacting your child's results. It's not fair and there is nothing we can do.
.

But parents on here aren't doing this. They aren't sitting their kids down and saying "look you have so many unfair advantages outside of your control, that make it more likely that you, relative to the average child of color born on the same day in this country, will end up at these schools. Statistics make that 100% clear."

They are telling their kids "every way that you are advantaged, and there are many of them, is "fair", and we will take advantage of them as much as possible. the one way that you aren't advantaged as much as people like you in previous generations is unfair, and we will whine as loudly as we can about that. "

Amen to this. The sense of (likely-white) upper-class entitlement to ALLLL the seats at elite schools is astonishing. Access to a seat at an Ivy league school is not something to which anyone's child is entitled.

News flash: your child's achievement is certainly influenced by their economic, class and race privilege. AND your child may well be very bright and have worked very hard as well. But they started off with far more advantages than the typical black or immigrant student. Elite schools should let black and brown students attend. You do realize that these elite schools used to blatantly discriminate against students of color and not admit them, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe responsible parenting is acknowledging that while top schools are a stretch for everyone, it IS unfair that qualities outside of their control and baseless to achievement are getting prioritized over what should matter and thus impacting your child's results. It's not fair and there is nothing we can do.
.

But parents on here aren't doing this. They aren't sitting their kids down and saying "look you have so many unfair advantages outside of your control, that make it more likely that you, relative to the average child of color born on the same day in this country, will end up at these schools. Statistics make that 100% clear."

They are telling their kids "every way that you are advantaged, and there are many of them, is "fair", and we will take advantage of them as much as possible. the one way that you aren't advantaged as much as people like you in previous generations is unfair, and we will whine as loudly as we can about that. "

Pp here and I’m not saying any such thing. I tell my white kids they need to do better in school and extracurriculars than their friends who are URMs to get into the same schools. They also have to do better than legacies and I tell them that as well (a number of their friends want to go to where their parents did or know they have a leg up there so makes sense to rank no. 1). My kids are very privileged no doubt. I work hard in part to provide those benefits, a terrific school, access to great educational programs, travel, the ability to choose jobs out of interest rather than for pay through high school. I’m lucky o had the opportunity to go into a field o love that is also high paying. Most people don’t have that option in a predictable way. I had to work very hard, but also got lucky. None of this changes whether my kids need to do better in school than their URM peers to get into the same college.

[Anonymous]

Nobody is disputing that blacks were historically discriminated against in college admissions. Jews were previously "over-represented" and discriminated against too. Now it is Asians.
Many of us are arguing for race-blind admissions over racial preferences (of any kind).