For all the parents complaining that the admissions process is rigged against their kids--

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was another thread that said you get dinged by most schools for leaving the race box blank. They you assume you are white (and difficult).

As they should.

Or simply believe in the notion you should not be discriminated based on the color of your skin but rather on the content of your character.

MLK would not like you in the slightest, and you wouldn’t have liked him either. He was a socialist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was another thread that said you get dinged by most schools for leaving the race box blank. They you assume you are white (and difficult).

As they should.

Or simply believe in the notion you should not be discriminated based on the color of your skin but rather on the content of your character.

MLK would not like you in the slightest, and you wouldn’t have liked him either. He was a socialist.

This may come as a shock to you, but people can have overlapping shared ideals. MLK worked with plenty of people who were not socialists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then don't get worked up by parents telling their Asian or white kids that they have to outperform URMs to get into the same schools. Ignore them. They are just adjusting to the race-based world you want to live in.

I tell my kids they have to outperform everyone. Especially the white athletes who are completely unqualified

Hmm, tell that to my 36-ACT-no-prep athletic recruit.. It’s truly beyond the realm of your imagination that there are smart athletes.

You do realize that sweeping generalizations are a sign of limited critical thinking, don’t you?!

Oh please. You gave your kids dinner and a room to study right? That's privilege! You ought to be ashamed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then don't get worked up by parents telling their Asian or white kids that they have to outperform URMs to get into the same schools. Ignore them. They are just adjusting to the race-based world you want to live in.

I tell my kids they have to outperform everyone. Especially the white athletes who are completely unqualified

Hmm, tell that to my 36-ACT-no-prep athletic recruit.. It’s truly beyond the realm of your imagination that there are smart athletes.

You do realize that sweeping generalizations are a sign of limited critical thinking, don’t you?!

Oh please. You gave your kids dinner and a room to study right? That's privilege! You ought to be ashamed!

NP. It is privilege. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A “privileged” kid deserves to get into college the same as everyone. They should not be penalized because they are “privileged” if they’ve got the goods. I would say the same for a kid who isn’t “privileged.” And privilege is not exclusive to White people. I know many Black kids more privileged than my White kids.

How many times have your kids been stopped by the police? How many times have they been assumed to be stealing in a designer store? How many times has someone stared at them?

Not the poster you are responding to but another previous poster. Do you think kids are better prepared for the world, more confident and more resilient because they’ve been improperly stopped by police? Do you think that makes people better and stronger? I honestly think building up resilience can certainly be good, but perhaps is equally likely to make people less willing to engage and less confident later in life. I’m not sure as a result what suffering abuse by law-enforcement has to do with whether or not someone is better qualified to be admitted to college. Or are we trying to say that yes, it should be made easier for underrepresented minorities and for others to get into college to make up for the fact that they suffered discrimination elsewhere in life? If that’s the case, then, yes, my white kids need to do much better in school and then extracurriculars to get into the same school as their underrepresented Minority friends. It’s a public policy choice and fine. But why should we not be open about the different qualifications required?

Can’t agree with you more. Just admit there are different qualifications required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A “privileged” kid deserves to get into college the same as everyone. They should not be penalized because they are “privileged” if they’ve got the goods. I would say the same for a kid who isn’t “privileged.” And privilege is not exclusive to White people. I know many Black kids more privileged than my White kids.

How many times have your kids been stopped by the police? How many times have they been assumed to be stealing in a designer store? How many times has someone stared at them?

Not the poster you are responding to but another previous poster. Do you think kids are better prepared for the world, more confident and more resilient because they’ve been improperly stopped by police? Do you think that makes people better and stronger? I honestly think building up resilience can certainly be good, but perhaps is equally likely to make people less willing to engage and less confident later in life. I’m not sure as a result what suffering abuse by law-enforcement has to do with whether or not someone is better qualified to be admitted to college. Or are we trying to say that yes, it should be made easier for underrepresented minorities and for others to get into college to make up for the fact that they suffered discrimination elsewhere in life? If that’s the case, then, yes, my white kids need to do much better in school and then extracurriculars to get into the same school as their underrepresented Minority friends. It’s a public policy choice and fine. But why should we not be open about the different qualifications required?

Can’t agree with you more. Just admit there are different qualifications required.

Qualifications are the student demonstrated that he/she satisfies the college's institutional needs ( which are many - a lot of it athletic), and have the academic profile to indicate that he/she can graduate within 4 to 6 years.

The graduation rates for elite colleges are rather high (90%+), so the vast majority of who is admitted and enrolled graduate.

Parents put their own spin on what should constitute "qualifications" or "merit." Mostly if not solely based on what their DC has. Very myopic.

The college knows what/who they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

If people want to cheat, they'll cheat. That's a personal morality thing. In terms of college admissions, most of the cheaters know the system and have some financial resources. If the graduation rates are high that means that most of those accepted (including URMs) graduate. We're talking the elite colleges here, not the Strayer or Phoenix types. The issue is access. Thousands want to get into the elite colleges but can't due to limited slots. The colleges decide who they give access to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

You are dead wrong. The data shows that Disadvantaged kids get the biggest boost out of all groups by attending elite schools. And truly disadvantaged kids who get into elite schools get offered full grants, not loans.

This is a disgusting post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

You are dead wrong. The data shows that Disadvantaged kids get the biggest boost out of all groups by attending elite schools. And truly disadvantaged kids who get into elite schools get offered full grants, not loans.

This is a disgusting post.

+1

But it's an anonymous board, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

Elite schools have 95%+ 4-year graduation rates, even taking into account the very few kids who ''dropout.'' NOBODY is getting into an elite school without being an outstanding student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

You don't know the slightest thing about ''truly disadvantaged'' students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

Elite schools have 95%+ 4-year graduation rates, even taking into account the very few kids who ''dropout.'' NOBODY is getting into an elite school without being an outstanding student.

Of course they are. I know so many kids getting into elite schools this cycle, likely only because of being TO. Nowhere near being an outstanding student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

Elite schools have 95%+ 4-year graduation rates, even taking into account the very few kids who ''dropout.'' NOBODY is getting into an elite school without being an outstanding student.

Of course they are. I know so many kids getting into elite schools this cycle, likely only because of being TO. Nowhere near being an outstanding student.

You have no way of knowing either of these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

I know about 10 kids in my neighborhood who have checked the URM box due to grandma being from spain or being black or being allegedly fractionally american indian, whatever. Our neighborhood houses start at $1M. So the concept of this scrappy youngster is a very small majority of URMs in real life (I believe). And for those kids that are truly disadvantaged, they are better off at mid range schools. Not to be mean but there is a ton of evidence and studies showing that when you go in to a school far below the norms of GPA and SAT that you struggle (shocker!) and that struggle makes them feel insecure and stressed and that in turn results in drop outs and defaults on loans - check the data. It's not like letting kids in who are hundreds of points below everyone else magically catch up by virtue of their acceptance. Maybe a few can rise to the occasion, but most cant.

Elite schools have 95%+ 4-year graduation rates, even taking into account the very few kids who ''dropout.'' NOBODY is getting into an elite school without being an outstanding student.

Of course they are. I know so many kids getting into elite schools this cycle, likely only because of being TO. Nowhere near being an outstanding student.

You have no way of knowing either of these things.

Exactly.

It a troll.