For all the parents complaining that the admissions process is rigged against their kids--

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is disputing that blacks were historically discriminated against in college admissions. Jews were previously "over-represented" and discriminated against too. Now it is Asians.
Many of us are arguing for race-blind admissions over racial preferences (of any kind).

This is really the final simple point. If we want a race-neutral society, which based on watching my kids grow up in a very multi-cultural environment and seeming to really not distinguish or between races is absolutely doable - I will say this with certainty- my kids have NO racial biases - how amazing is that? It's the adults/society that want to constantly focus on race. Seeing the same URM kid gleefully show up as accepted on every IVY and Tier 1 school tier on college confidential with a 1400 and 3.7 GPA talking about how HARD it is going to be to pick from all the offers! while your kid with a 1580 and 4.4 has been rejected or waitlisted from everything except safeties, it fuels racial discord because the solution to past racism (in many people's mind) is not to implement new racist polices to manipulate outcomes. I know a lot of URM do support this - they see it as they are "due" but it ultimately moves us away from the goal of being race neutral.

In addition, we should similarly do away with sexual orientation in college admissions. What business is it of any organization the private sexual lives of people - it's so absurd, I cannot believe it has become such an open talking point. Let's class up, America.

Diversity in higher institutions of learning is good.

Colleges want diversity on campus.

There are many bright applicants across all demographics.

There are more applicants than spots. Some will get in. Some will not.

Colleges are the gatekeepers and will decide who they want.

Forcing you to mark your race and using it is racism.

The entire demographics section of the Common App is completely optional

[Anonymous]

Then don't get worked up by parents telling their Asian or white kids that they have to outperform URMs to get into the same schools. Ignore them. They are just adjusting to the race-based world you want to live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Then don't get worked up by parents telling their Asian or white kids that they have to outperform URMs to get into the same schools. Ignore them. They are just adjusting to the race-based world you want to live in.

I tell my kids they have to outperform everyone. Especially the white athletes who are completely unqualified

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is disputing that blacks were historically discriminated against in college admissions. Jews were previously "over-represented" and discriminated against too. Now it is Asians.
Many of us are arguing for race-blind admissions over racial preferences (of any kind).

This is really the final simple point. If we want a race-neutral society, which based on watching my kids grow up in a very multi-cultural environment and seeming to really not distinguish or between races is absolutely doable - I will say this with certainty- my kids have NO racial biases - how amazing is that? It's the adults/society that want to constantly focus on race. Seeing the same URM kid gleefully show up as accepted on every IVY and Tier 1 school tier on college confidential with a 1400 and 3.7 GPA talking about how HARD it is going to be to pick from all the offers! while your kid with a 1580 and 4.4 has been rejected or waitlisted from everything except safeties, it fuels racial discord because the solution to past racism (in many people's mind) is not to implement new racist polices to manipulate outcomes. I know a lot of URM do support this - they see it as they are "due" but it ultimately moves us away from the goal of being race neutral.

In addition, we should similarly do away with sexual orientation in college admissions. What business is it of any organization the private sexual lives of people - it's so absurd, I cannot believe it has become such an open talking point. Let's class up, America.

Diversity in higher institutions of learning is good.

Colleges want diversity on campus.

There are many bright applicants across all demographics.

There are more applicants than spots. Some will get in. Some will not.

Colleges are the gatekeepers and will decide who they want.

Forcing you to mark your race and using it is racism.

Nobody is forcing your kid to apply to selective schools. If you don’t like their ecosystem go somewhere else.

So I can be a racist to my customers as well.

Sure, as long as you don't break the law.

what law

The Civil Rights Act.

Exacly. That's why employers, golf club, or any place don't ask people's race.

Civil Rights Act of 1964
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is a landmark civil rights and labor law in the United States that outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, and later sexual orientation and gender identity.

This should apply to colleges and colleges should not ask applicant's race.

There are federal laws requiring that institutions receiving federal funds report data including race.

They can ask after students commit, and report it to Fed for demographic purpose.

[Anonymous]

There was another thread that said you get dinged by most schools for leaving the race box blank. They you assume you are white (and difficult).

[Anonymous]

If you want to go to an elite school you better be elite. There are colleges (not all horrible, even) where you can literally sign up to attend a month before if you don’t want competition. Life is hard.

[Anonymous]

"No one is disputing the bolded part. What we are complaining about, if you can please keep up, is that skin color is being used as a differentiator, such that all of a sudden, a specific skin color allows for less than perfect GPA, less than perfect SAT/ACT, and otherwise average essays and ECs. No one is claiming that they are entitled to attend a certain school, or that a school must accept all students that meet a certain objective entrance bar. What we are complaining about, is that race is being used to admit less-well-performing students over better-performing students."

You really truly don't understand what's happening with URM students in the admissions process. Try reading the Hopwood case. The white plaintiffs in that case didn't get in because they weren't as good as the other white kids that did get in. Of the let's say (making the number up) 400 students who got in, probably 370 were white and 30 were POC. Yet the plaintiffs believed to their core that they lost their seats to the POC. SMH.

In general, the essays and ECs of POC are more impressive than even those of the white kids who get admitted. This is because you can write a very compelling personal essay that demonstrates your grit (young, scrappy, and hungry), your ability to understand that the opportunity to attend Harvard if they let you in is something that will benefit so many more people than just you, and that you are brave enough to shoot for the stars and have proven that when given a chance, you always make the most of it. Basically, your shitty life story as a POC up through the age of 17 enables you to write your personal version of the Alexander Hamilton "I'm not throwing away my shot" story, which is pretty much exactly what schools like that are looking for. I know that you think lots of URMs with lower stats than your kid's are winning those seats at Harvard just because of the color of their skin. Maybe it happens now and then, but that's rare. The faux URMs who have never been pulled over by the cops, or had their parents talked down to by their 5th grade teacher, or had to interpret for their mom at the doctor's office have a hard time conjuring up any life experiences that would distinguish them from everyone else in their essays. If you don't stand out, you don't get in. The URMs who do get in overwhelmingly have some freaking amazing story to tell that demonstrates that they'll do well academically, make the 4 years way more interesting for their classmates, and go on to have a fabulously successful life that will reflect well on the school. Oh, and trust me that you probably don't know everything about your DC's URM classmate who got in and seems to not be "all that." For all you know, she's the lead singer in a mariachi band who won the national competition three years straight, and she helped her parents earn the money they needed to bring her younger sibling here from Guatemala. I hope you're not surprised that she never mentioned any of this to your DC.

[Anonymous]

The notion that we could prevent AOs from knowing the race of applicants, or that they're not white, by removing the race question is just silly.

As someone who is a URM, I don't think there's any way that I could have written my college essays without making it obvious that I'm not white. Maybe white people don't realize this, but not being white shapes and defines just about every aspect of a POC's life. This is especially true if you are very visibly not white. My kids are URM through me and their other parent is white. I grew up with parents who didn't even go to high school, but my kids have two parents with graduate degrees and high paying, high status jobs. They are lighter skinned than me, and live in an expensive house and have access to all sorts of resources I didn't know existed when I was a kid. Yet their essays still touched on being URM. In order to "tell their story" they had to include racism in their essays. Racism is some powerful shit.

[Anonymous]

Essays have always been a part of the admissions process and I don't know anyone who is arguing that a well-written, compelling essay shouldn't carry weight. Every applicant has a chance to do well on an essay, whether it is because of their unique lived experience, quirky sense of humor, or thoughtful introspection. In many respects a URM or a first gen applicant may have character-building life stories that give them an edge. That's wonderful. I don't think anyone thinks that is unfair at all. After all, a white middle-class poet with a unique outlook could still do well too.

Sincere question: if URMs really have an edge on essays and recommendations, why take race into account at all? Racial preferences -- just like legacy and obscure sports preferences -- is what is perpetuating the believe that the process is "rigged." Just give more weight to essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great article on how to teach your child to have no competitive spirit and be happy with what meager rations they are given.

Kids this bright are quite aware of who is getting into the schools they and their friends have been targeting for 2 or 3 years and they can see the reverse discrimination and unfairness at play. They are not 2 year olds looking for moms reaction on this.

Maybe responsible parenting is acknowledging that while top schools are a stretch for everyone, it IS unfair that qualities outside of their control and baseless to achievement are getting prioritized over what should matter and thus impacting your child's results. It's not fair and there is nothing we can do.

But that they will still go to a good school and because they are brilliant they will make the best of it. The world will level out once they get past the insanity/bubble of college admissions because in the real world results matter more than checking a demographic box and brilliance and hard work will pay off, regardless of liberal agendas.

Companies focus on things that matter and so while this phase of life will illustrate to them the unfairness of racism of discrimination, the good news is that they will be past this BS in four years.

That is the article I would write.

WELL SAID!!!

You’re both delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was another thread that said you get dinged by most schools for leaving the race box blank. They you assume you are white (and difficult).

As they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then don't get worked up by parents telling their Asian or white kids that they have to outperform URMs to get into the same schools. Ignore them. They are just adjusting to the race-based world you want to live in.

I tell my kids they have to outperform everyone. Especially the white athletes who are completely unqualified

Hmm, tell that to my 36-ACT-no-prep athletic recruit.. It’s truly beyond the realm of your imagination that there are smart athletes.

You do realize that sweeping generalizations are a sign of limited critical thinking, don’t you?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course people understand the admissions office goals and that students are accepted within a range of scores, experiences, talents and majors. But it's like CRT, a political football that gets people foaming at the mouth and pits us against each other.

Exactly the goal of the group that brought this lawsuit. That group is using Asian students as a pawn in a larger chess game.

+1

Also worth noting that there are many Asian organizations that have filed amicus briefs supporting Harvard's side in the SFFA lawsuit.

Yeah I mean they feel like they have to be politically correct. Plenty of Asians feel differently in private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then don't get worked up by parents telling their Asian or white kids that they have to outperform URMs to get into the same schools. Ignore them. They are just adjusting to the race-based world you want to live in.

I tell my kids they have to outperform everyone. Especially the white athletes who are completely unqualified

Hmm, tell that to my 36-ACT-no-prep athletic recruit.. It’s truly beyond the realm of your imagination that there are smart athletes.

You do realize that sweeping generalizations are a sign of limited critical thinking, don’t you?!

you realize that if you sock puppet kid actually exists they are the exception that proves the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was another thread that said you get dinged by most schools for leaving the race box blank. They you assume you are white (and difficult).

As they should.

Or simply believe in the notion you should not be discriminated based on the color of your skin but rather on the content of your character.