I am Russian, she is Ukrainian, we were friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

You’re not engaging with what I’m saying at all.

I am, you just don't want to hear it.

I'm saying that the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Not guilt, but responsibility. The #1 priority of every Russian on planet Earth should be the elimination of Putin and the restoration of their country. Maybe after he carpet bombs Kyiv or drops a couple tactical nukes in western Ukraine you will wake up.

I have the utmost respect for Russians engaged in active resistance to the regime. They are heroes. Russians supporting the regime are modern day Nazis and SS. Russians shrugging their shoulders and saying "war is bad" with half-hearted outrage are the "good germans" who ignored the Nazi death camps burning the bodies of jews a few km away from their towns.

Explain to me how the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Be specific.

Also, keep in mind that you are speaking to a Russian-Ukrainian Jew. So when you tell me to “wake up” about these things, you come across as pretty rich.

Ot sou ds lile you're saying that the only evil greater than the Russian army murdering Ukrainians is Ukrainians who don't want to associate with Russians anymore.

I’ve never said anything remotely close to that.

[Anonymous]

Reading the attitudes of some of these posters, one can understand the type of thinking that allowed Japanese Americans to be forced into internment camps during WW2.

The people of Russia are victims of their government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

You’re not engaging with what I’m saying at all.

I am, you just don't want to hear it.

I'm saying that the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Not guilt, but responsibility. The #1 priority of every Russian on planet Earth should be the elimination of Putin and the restoration of their country. Maybe after he carpet bombs Kyiv or drops a couple tactical nukes in western Ukraine you will wake up.

I have the utmost respect for Russians engaged in active resistance to the regime. They are heroes. Russians supporting the regime are modern day Nazis and SS. Russians shrugging their shoulders and saying "war is bad" with half-hearted outrage are the "good germans" who ignored the Nazi death camps burning the bodies of jews a few km away from their towns.

Explain to me how the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Be specific.

Also, keep in mind that you are speaking to a Russian-Ukrainian Jew. So when you tell me to “wake up” about these things, you come across as pretty rich.

Ot sou ds lile you're saying that the only evil greater than the Russian army murdering Ukrainians is Ukrainians who don't want to associate with Russians anymore.

I’ve never said anything remotely close to that.

Yes, you have. And you have shown zero willingness to understand the threat they're facing. And you make no effort to defend them when people in this thread insult them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

You’re not engaging with what I’m saying at all.

I am, you just don't want to hear it.

I'm saying that the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Not guilt, but responsibility. The #1 priority of every Russian on planet Earth should be the elimination of Putin and the restoration of their country. Maybe after he carpet bombs Kyiv or drops a couple tactical nukes in western Ukraine you will wake up.

I have the utmost respect for Russians engaged in active resistance to the regime. They are heroes. Russians supporting the regime are modern day Nazis and SS. Russians shrugging their shoulders and saying "war is bad" with half-hearted outrage are the "good germans" who ignored the Nazi death camps burning the bodies of jews a few km away from their towns.

Explain to me how the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Be specific.

Also, keep in mind that you are speaking to a Russian-Ukrainian Jew. So when you tell me to “wake up” about these things, you come across as pretty rich.

The Russian population elected Putin and a majority of them continue to support him - as the Germans did with Hitler, who was elected by a plurality, but eventually supported by the majority of society and many leaders and institutions. That's what I mean by responsibility. What does the word mean to you?

I had relatives killed by the Nazis in World War II and I spent many years of my life in Ukraine where I have deep relationships. I have negatives of photos taken from the death camps in my family's photo album a few feet away from where I sit as I type this. We spent the last 75 years saying "never again". Did we mean it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

You’re not engaging with what I’m saying at all.

I am, you just don't want to hear it.

I'm saying that the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Not guilt, but responsibility. The #1 priority of every Russian on planet Earth should be the elimination of Putin and the restoration of their country. Maybe after he carpet bombs Kyiv or drops a couple tactical nukes in western Ukraine you will wake up.

I have the utmost respect for Russians engaged in active resistance to the regime. They are heroes. Russians supporting the regime are modern day Nazis and SS. Russians shrugging their shoulders and saying "war is bad" with half-hearted outrage are the "good germans" who ignored the Nazi death camps burning the bodies of jews a few km away from their towns.

Explain to me how the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Be specific.

Also, keep in mind that you are speaking to a Russian-Ukrainian Jew. So when you tell me to “wake up” about these things, you come across as pretty rich.

Ot sou ds lile you're saying that the only evil greater than the Russian army murdering Ukrainians is Ukrainians who don't want to associate with Russians anymore.

I’ve never said anything remotely close to that.

Yes, you have. And you have shown zero willingness to understand the threat they're facing. And you make no effort to defend them when people in this thread insult them.

Can you quote something I’ve posted to that effect? Also, please stop describing Ukrainians as “them” to me. As I’ve told you many times, I am half Ukrainian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading the attitudes of some of these posters, one can understand the type of thinking that allowed Japanese Americans to be forced into internment camps during WW2.

The people of Russia are victims of their government.

No, it's simply that Putin has forced people to pick sides. Russians who condemn Putin and his leadership are fine in my book. Those who don't are complicit with genocide. You can't play it safe this time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

You’re not engaging with what I’m saying at all.

I am, you just don't want to hear it.

I'm saying that the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Not guilt, but responsibility. The #1 priority of every Russian on planet Earth should be the elimination of Putin and the restoration of their country. Maybe after he carpet bombs Kyiv or drops a couple tactical nukes in western Ukraine you will wake up.

I have the utmost respect for Russians engaged in active resistance to the regime. They are heroes. Russians supporting the regime are modern day Nazis and SS. Russians shrugging their shoulders and saying "war is bad" with half-hearted outrage are the "good germans" who ignored the Nazi death camps burning the bodies of jews a few km away from their towns.

Explain to me how the Russian people bear responsibility for Putin. Be specific.

Also, keep in mind that you are speaking to a Russian-Ukrainian Jew. So when you tell me to “wake up” about these things, you come across as pretty rich.

The Russian population elected Putin and a majority of them continue to support him - as the Germans did with Hitler, who was elected by a plurality, but eventually supported by the majority of society and many leaders and institutions. That's what I mean by responsibility. What does the word mean to you?

I had relatives killed by the Nazis in World War II and I spent many years of my life in Ukraine where I have deep relationships. I have negatives of photos taken from the death camps in my family's photo album a few feet away from where I sit as I type this. We spent the last 75 years saying "never again". Did we mean it?

The Russian Presidential Elections haven’t been free and fair really … ever. So I fail to understand how the Russian people can be considered responsible for Putin, who was hand-picked by Yeltsin.

I have relatives killed by the Nazis too. My Ukrainian side of the family is here because they escaped the Odessa pogroms. I can still understand what it means to have elections that are not free and fair.

[Anonymous]

This debate is sooo pointless.

The east and the west are like 2 species that look similar, can reproduce together but are otherwise alien species.

We never have; and never will see each other’s perspective or share any values.

If I were Biden I would let Putin get wrapped up for another month or two; launch preemptive full scale attack and then have China on the defensive. A large scale conventional assault should consume their defenses as our nukes launch. We only need 30 minutes to literally wipe russia off the map.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

Your former friend is a petty soul who is displacing her feelings of powerlessness and anger onto you, an easy target. She’s not a good person. I am an African who lives abroad because white people raped and destroyed my country for hundreds of years, murdered our democratically elected president and installed a dictator after we fought for independence, and then killed some more. White people, especially America and France, continue to harm my country and to make it impossible for my family back home to live decent lives. I can speak to the pain of fleeing home in terror and never being able to go back. It hurts sometimes to see the prosperity and arrogance of people whose way of life is built on stealing from countries like mine. But I still don’t take it out on individuals. Your former friend isn’t a good person and you can’t trust her again.

It’s hilarious to see Americans posting in this thread as if they have any leg to stand on. May you all live to enjoy your just desserts.

Amein. MYHUHRF

[Anonymous]

Russians living in Russia are fully responsible for their government’s actions. Collectively they work to enable Purim’s regime and the atrocities of the war. From the newscaster spewing lies to the factory workers working over time to produce missiles. As a society, they have to own their actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This debate is sooo pointless.

The east and the west are like 2 species that look similar, can reproduce together but are otherwise alien species.

We never have; and never will see each other’s perspective or share any values.

If I were Biden I would let Putin get wrapped up for another month or two; launch preemptive full scale attack and then have China on the defensive. A large scale conventional assault should consume their defenses as our nukes launch. We only need 30 minutes to literally wipe russia off the map.

Seek help. You are advocating slaughter of hundreds of millions and start of nuclear winter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russians living in Russia are fully responsible for their government’s actions. Collectively they work to enable Purim’s regime and the atrocities of the war. From the newscaster spewing lies to the factory workers working over time to produce missiles. As a society, they have to own their actions.

You fundamentally misunderstand what an authoritarian regime is.

[Anonymous]

It’s business as usual in Russia while children are buried in rubble in Mariupol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s business as usual in Russia while children are buried in rubble in Mariupol.

I see, apparently they all think things will go back to normal in 6 months to a year after they have raised their neighbor to the ground and unleashed an immigrant exodus in Europe. What a delusional people!

[Anonymous]

^they aren't really delusional. Deep down they know. They just want to ignore it, keep their heads in the ground and hope that the problem "goes away", and they can get their McDs again soon. Not too dissimilar to the Germans who ignored the atrocities committed against their Jewish neighbors.