I am Russian, she is Ukrainian, we were friends

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

Are you an American citizen? If you and your friend knows it and still refuses to understand how are NOT a Russian citizen in any way accountable or needing to atone for what's happening, then just let it go. Give her space. It will be ugly for you for a while until people learn that this is just another variety of "woke white guilt" that is going to extremes and needs to end. In the meanwhile, you must know that majority of Americans will have no clue if you are Russian or Ukrainian and never will tell the difference. The good thing, you don't owe anyone any explanation and nobody will be pressing you to disclose your ethnic origin.

This is so true.

[Anonymous]

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This was sobering. And it’s why the posters who argue that Russians can’t do anything are being treated with appropriate disdain. The EU, NATO, US can sanction, and should per this man’s suggestion enact criminal penalties for those who do business with Russia as it has operated. But changing over the mentality and ultimately the government is an internal change.

So you ignored this part of it: “ It's not Russians' "fault", there are too many factors, but to fix this means a process of national breakdown, regrouping, redemption and re-education for, well, 80 years. It can only be done by the Russians themselves and the best thing we can do is not get in there to tell them how. Because we don't know better.:

“It can only be done by Russians themselves.” I agree and have never prescribed what they should do, just that THEY should do it. It bothers you - good. I’m very glad.

You missed the part, though, when he said that it isn’t their fault. You and others have been excoriating Russians for not revolting against Putin, acting as though it is evidence of some massive evil inside them.

I missed nothing, I’m so sorry you and your false gotchas keep getting you nowhere. Oh well.

You did, though. Oh well.

Nope. No one can read your mind - naturally, no one has the interest - to decode what you deem most important about a quote. For me, the focus is on what different nations can do to stem the killings and Putin’s continued reign. For you, what matters is screeching in multiple threads about the innocence of Russians. I hope you find some comfort as it becomes ever more clear that most people you’re trying to engage with here won’t see things your way.

Yeah, you totally missed the nuance of that tweet thread. He was talking about the delicate balance between what external states can do (not nations — states), but where external influence inevitably falls short. He then talks about the myriad factors underpinning the long history of authoritarianism in Russia and how change must come from within, but that does not mean Russians are at fault for their reality.

It’s an excellent thread. It’s sad you didn’t understand it.

I really enjoy your self-satisfied use of myriad, it’s very second-string in her APs at BCC of you. I also truly love your careful exegesis of a completely transparent twitter thread. So useful. You’re a pissy little nothing because I discussed the fundamental conclusion and it hurts that it doesn’t shore up your campaign to shame people resolute in noting that regime change will come from within there, no more and no less. Try again.

If this were truly all you’ve been saying, then we’d have no disagreement. The reality is that we have people on this thread and others talking about how they are distancing themselves from all Russians, how every single Russian should suffer, etc. You cannot see the difference and it’s sad.

Oh, and the fact that you called out my usage of “myriad” is odd. It’s just a word — no more, no less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been watching Russian YouTube channels and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t feel bad for them & the sanctions they have to deal with.

Thank you for this. There are a lot of people who don’t support the war at all, but they have kids to feed so won’t protest. It’s a criminal offense right now

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Would this xenophobia be acceptable if China invaded Taiwan? A lot of WASPs around here seem to relish the opportunity to discriminate against non Aryan looking white people. I guess since it’s not socially acceptable to be bigoted against Blacks, Asians and Hispanics they need a healthy release valve for all their pent up bigotry and are taking it out on Slavs.

I think if China threatened to nuke us, people would be a lot more xenophobic towards Chinese people. It's understandable.

Don’t you think we can rise above xenophobia?

No. We recently elected a president whose main campaign promise was to build a border wall. So, no.

Well, you specifically could perhaps rise above it.

Unless they're outspoken in their opposition towards Putin, I will always view Russians with suspicion. That's just how it is now.

So how does that work? If you meet a Russian-American, they have to introduce themselves as follows: “Hi, I’m Aleksey and I hate Putin”? And if they don’t, you’re suspicious?

German citizens had to deal with this after World War II. There are many other examples in history. It's not like it's a new concept. It takes about 20 years after the cessation of hostilities for memories to start to fade. Germany post WW2 was accelerated by the Cold War.

Did we flagellate American citizens of German descent during the WW2? Did we request that those who left before Hitler came to power must atone for his sins? And you are telling OP now that she will be an old lady by the time she is "forgiven" and her kids will have to face "deserved" adversity of some sort for most of their formative years? I have no idea what's wrong with your brain, you need to grow up or see a therapist if you are indeed an adult

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Would this xenophobia be acceptable if China invaded Taiwan? A lot of WASPs around here seem to relish the opportunity to discriminate against non Aryan looking white people. I guess since it’s not socially acceptable to be bigoted against Blacks, Asians and Hispanics they need a healthy release valve for all their pent up bigotry and are taking it out on Slavs.

I think if China threatened to nuke us, people would be a lot more xenophobic towards Chinese people. It's understandable.

Don’t you think we can rise above xenophobia?

No. We recently elected a president whose main campaign promise was to build a border wall. So, no.

Well, you specifically could perhaps rise above it.

Unless they're outspoken in their opposition towards Putin, I will always view Russians with suspicion. That's just how it is now.

So how does that work? If you meet a Russian-American, they have to introduce themselves as follows: “Hi, I’m Aleksey and I hate Putin”? And if they don’t, you’re suspicious?

German citizens had to deal with this after World War II. There are many other examples in history. It's not like it's a new concept. It takes about 20 years after the cessation of hostilities for memories to start to fade. Germany post WW2 was accelerated by the Cold War.

Did we flagellate American citizens of German descent during the WW2? Did we request that those who left before Hitler came to power must atone for his sins? And you are telling OP now that she will be an old lady by the time she is "forgiven" and her kids will have to face "deserved" adversity of some sort for most of their formative years? I have no idea what's wrong with your brain, you need to grow up or see a therapist if you are indeed an adult

Is this a joke?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Would this xenophobia be acceptable if China invaded Taiwan? A lot of WASPs around here seem to relish the opportunity to discriminate against non Aryan looking white people. I guess since it’s not socially acceptable to be bigoted against Blacks, Asians and Hispanics they need a healthy release valve for all their pent up bigotry and are taking it out on Slavs.

I think if China threatened to nuke us, people would be a lot more xenophobic towards Chinese people. It's understandable.

Don’t you think we can rise above xenophobia?

No. We recently elected a president whose main campaign promise was to build a border wall. So, no.

Well, you specifically could perhaps rise above it.

Unless they're outspoken in their opposition towards Putin, I will always view Russians with suspicion. That's just how it is now.

So how does that work? If you meet a Russian-American, they have to introduce themselves as follows: “Hi, I’m Aleksey and I hate Putin”? And if they don’t, you’re suspicious?

German citizens had to deal with this after World War II. There are many other examples in history. It's not like it's a new concept. It takes about 20 years after the cessation of hostilities for memories to start to fade. Germany post WW2 was accelerated by the Cold War.

Did we flagellate American citizens of German descent during the WW2? Did we request that those who left before Hitler came to power must atone for his sins? And you are telling OP now that she will be an old lady by the time she is "forgiven" and her kids will have to face "deserved" adversity of some sort for most of their formative years? I have no idea what's wrong with your brain, you need to grow up or see a therapist if you are indeed an adult

Is this a joke?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

As far as WWII German American internment was concerned, it was nothing compared to the internment of Japanese Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

Stop talking politics with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Would this xenophobia be acceptable if China invaded Taiwan? A lot of WASPs around here seem to relish the opportunity to discriminate against non Aryan looking white people. I guess since it’s not socially acceptable to be bigoted against Blacks, Asians and Hispanics they need a healthy release valve for all their pent up bigotry and are taking it out on Slavs.

I think if China threatened to nuke us, people would be a lot more xenophobic towards Chinese people. It's understandable.

Don’t you think we can rise above xenophobia?

No. We recently elected a president whose main campaign promise was to build a border wall. So, no.

Well, you specifically could perhaps rise above it.

Unless they're outspoken in their opposition towards Putin, I will always view Russians with suspicion. That's just how it is now.

So how does that work? If you meet a Russian-American, they have to introduce themselves as follows: “Hi, I’m Aleksey and I hate Putin”? And if they don’t, you’re suspicious?

German citizens had to deal with this after World War II. There are many other examples in history. It's not like it's a new concept. It takes about 20 years after the cessation of hostilities for memories to start to fade. Germany post WW2 was accelerated by the Cold War.

Did we flagellate American citizens of German descent during the WW2? Did we request that those who left before Hitler came to power must atone for his sins? And you are telling OP now that she will be an old lady by the time she is "forgiven" and her kids will have to face "deserved" adversity of some sort for most of their formative years? I have no idea what's wrong with your brain, you need to grow up or see a therapist if you are indeed an adult

Is this a joke?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

As far as WWII German American internment was concerned, it was nothing compared to the internment of Japanese Americans.

Different PP here. I don't think anyone disagrees but as the above link shows, there was plenty of anti-German sentiment in WW2.

This thread has long derailed from OP's question but OP - leave her be. There is no magic script that will make her come back to being your friend. She will eventually change her mind or not, but there is nothing you can do either way.

[Anonymous]

Sorry PP but I think the only thing that will make Ukraine and its people whole is a complete Russian withdrawal from Ukraine, including DPR, LPR and Crimea, war crimes trials for all Russians involved all the way up to Putin, Russians making restitution and payment to rebuild Ukraine, and guarantees in place that Russia never again exercise military force outside of its borders unless specifically invited and asked to do so by a free nation (e.g. not a fake Russian puppet government like DPR/LPR).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would this xenophobia be acceptable if China invaded Taiwan? A lot of WASPs around here seem to relish the opportunity to discriminate against non Aryan looking white people. I guess since it’s not socially acceptable to be bigoted against Blacks, Asians and Hispanics they need a healthy release valve for all their pent up bigotry and are taking it out on Slavs.

I think if China threatened to nuke us, people would be a lot more xenophobic towards Chinese people. It's understandable.

Don’t you think we can rise above xenophobia?

No. We recently elected a president whose main campaign promise was to build a border wall. So, no.

Well, you specifically could perhaps rise above it.

Unless they're outspoken in their opposition towards Putin, I will always view Russians with suspicion. That's just how it is now.

So how does that work? If you meet a Russian-American, they have to introduce themselves as follows: “Hi, I’m Aleksey and I hate Putin”? And if they don’t, you’re suspicious?

German citizens had to deal with this after World War II. There are many other examples in history. It's not like it's a new concept. It takes about 20 years after the cessation of hostilities for memories to start to fade. Germany post WW2 was accelerated by the Cold War.

Did we flagellate American citizens of German descent during the WW2? Did we request that those who left before Hitler came to power must atone for his sins? And you are telling OP now that she will be an old lady by the time she is "forgiven" and her kids will have to face "deserved" adversity of some sort for most of their formative years? I have no idea what's wrong with your brain, you need to grow up or see a therapist if you are indeed an adult

Is this a joke?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

As far as WWII German American internment was concerned, it was nothing compared to the internment of Japanese Americans.

Different PP here. I don't think anyone disagrees but as the above link shows, there was plenty of anti-German sentiment in WW2.

This thread has long derailed from OP's question but OP - leave her be. There is no magic script that will make her come back to being your friend. She will eventually change her mind or not, but there is nothing you can do either way.

Just let it be. Another ugly consequence of a brutal ugly war from a brutal ugly dictator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry PP but I think the only thing that will make Ukraine and its people whole is a complete Russian withdrawal from Ukraine, including DPR, LPR and Crimea, war crimes trials for all Russians involved all the way up to Putin, Russians making restitution and payment to rebuild Ukraine, and guarantees in place that Russia never again exercise military force outside of its borders unless specifically invited and asked to do so by a free nation (e.g. not a fake Russian puppet government like DPR/LPR).

Who determines what a free nation is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

But you do believe in greatness of Russian people i.e. their superiority as a nation and their right to dominate all (lesser) nations around them? Every Russian I know holds that belief. It is revolting and always comes through, no matter how hard they try to hide it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

But you do believe in greatness of Russian people i.e. their superiority as a nation and their right to dominate all (lesser) nations around them? Every Russian I know holds that belief. It is revolting and always comes through, no matter how hard they try to hide it.

That sounds exactly like what most Americans think as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

But you do believe in greatness of Russian people i.e. their superiority as a nation and their right to dominate all (lesser) nations around them? Every Russian I know holds that belief. It is revolting and always comes through, no matter how hard they try to hide it.

That sounds exactly like what most Americans think as well.

Lol, Americans don’t even come close to that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

But you do believe in greatness of Russian people i.e. their superiority as a nation and their right to dominate all (lesser) nations around them? Every Russian I know holds that belief. It is revolting and always comes through, no matter how hard they try to hide it.

That sounds exactly like what most Americans think as well.

This thread is about a Ukrainian friend and a Russian friend. Stay on topic.