TJ admission should be a pure lottery for all who meet application requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an important piece. What a shame the cretins in charge of FCPS have never given the matter of TJ admissions a sliver of the attention this author devoted to the topic.

https://www.inquiremore.com/p/culture-not-racism-explains-asian

It is about what's in it for me NOW, not about the truth or long term. So stop with your logic.

Yes, I agree. The School Board members only think about the short-term political benefits they expect to get from sticking it to Asian kids who work harder.

There comes a point when working harder becomes destructive and counterproductive to a healthy society. FCPS has a duty not to drag all students into an unhealthy race to nowhere because some parents want to drag their kids there.

I work harder than you. So you go crying to your FCPS mama to fix me. OK.

Keep on working harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Generally speaking, that falls in the category of "multiracial", a designation that did not change significantly year-over-year.

When you post a factual inaccuracy that is demonstrably false, you are done - that is to say, not to be taken seriously anymore because you don't know what you're talking about.

Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. You'd have to be comatose to have failed to notice that on every single school or medical form you fill out, under "Race", there is not a Hispanic category. Then, there's a separate checkbox for Hispanic or non-Hispanic after the race one. Many kids would check the boxes for White under race and then Hispanic under ethnicity. Some would check black or something else under race, and then Hispanic for ethnicity.

That's not how the TJ application works. The category is "Race/Ethnicity", and you have the following options: "White (non-Hispanic), Black (non-Hispanic), Hispanic, Asian, Multi-Racial/Other".

Again, you're not wrong, you just don't understand (or are choosing to conveniently ignore) the core concept of what's being discussed.

Uh.. No. Someone (you?) asserted that kids who are white and hispanic would fall under the multiracial category. That is absolutely false, and they would not be considered multiracial. For FCPS paperwork, a white child of Hispanic ethnicity would check "White" for their race, and then they'd check "Hispanic". If they did a combined race/ethnicity, they would simply check Hispanic. Either way, TJ would consider those kids to be Hispanic and not white or multiracial. Multiracial is for kids who are of two races. It isn't used for Hispanic kids of a single race.

DP. Thank you for clarifying your point.

It's more than a little silly, though, given all of the peripheral statistics in the class of 25, to assume that the huge jump in the Hispanic population was attributable to a bunch of white kids who identified as Hispanic in ethnicity. I think it's much more credible to assert that several of those students comprised the "Hispanic" populations of previous TJ classes. Indeed, I've met a few of them over the years. But with so many more students coming from schools that actually have sizeable Latine/Latinx populations, I think it's pretty likely you've got a ton more kids who are what one might refer to as genuinely Latine/x.

Plus, and it sucks that this is a relevant metric, but the jump to 25% FARMS and the proportion of FCPS FARMS students who are Latine/x also supports that assertion.

[Anonymous]

There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

Because there was affirmative action admits the stigma attached. Which is a huge disservice to those URM that did not need that help of a racial component to admissions. Huge disservice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

DP but the last sentence is the problem. A university can have a sophisticated admissions office, but a large school system like FCPS with 200 or so schools, of which TJ is but one, cannot. They will keep screwing up and eventually it will collapse under its own weight. It is obscene that the “fix” requires even more resources devoted to one school when so many others are ignored. FCPS should be deeply embarrassed by the fact that it’s simply substituted one form inequity with another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure this is a troll post

How did you get to such conclusion? Because if doesn’t suit you?

Go back to WeChat

They can go back further than that.

Just when I thought the first reply was racist, you jumped in and topped that by a huge margin. Congratulations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

Because there was affirmative action admits the stigma attached. Which is a huge disservice to those URM that did not need that help of a racial component to admissions. Huge disservice.

See.... This statement betrays the problematic viewpoint with which so many people interact with the whole TJ thing.

The previous poster here believes that the negatives of having some sort of invented "stigma" associated with being admitted to TJ under the current process outweighs the positives of, you know, getting a TJ education relative to their other options.

What this tells you is that to this poster (and I'm sure to many, many others), the value of being admitted to TJ was in the status of being *chosen*, not in the actual education they would receive.

For the entirety of TJ's existence, plenty of people have assumed that some form of affirmative action existed, and it only did for a very brief period in the late '90s - when, by the way, TJ was a supermajority WHITE school. So there have always been such whispers going around the school that any Black or Hispanic student admitted was a "diversity admit".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

Because there was affirmative action admits the stigma attached. Which is a huge disservice to those URM that did not need that help of a racial component to admissions. Huge disservice.

See.... This statement betrays the problematic viewpoint with which so many people interact with the whole TJ thing.

The previous poster here believes that the negatives of having some sort of invented "stigma" associated with being admitted to TJ under the current process outweighs the positives of, you know, getting a TJ education relative to their other options.

What this tells you is that to this poster (and I'm sure to many, many others), the value of being admitted to TJ was in the status of being *chosen*, not in the actual education they would receive.

For the entirety of TJ's existence, plenty of people have assumed that some form of affirmative action existed, and it only did for a very brief period in the late '90s - when, by the way, TJ was a supermajority WHITE school. So there have always been such whispers going around the school that any Black or Hispanic student admitted was a "diversity admit".

Correct. I wrote that previous post. My point being to switch to a lottery so that everyone that gets in does so based on meeting the qualifications and being lucky enough to win the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

Because there was affirmative action admits the stigma attached. Which is a huge disservice to those URM that did not need that help of a racial component to admissions. Huge disservice.

See.... This statement betrays the problematic viewpoint with which so many people interact with the whole TJ thing.

The previous poster here believes that the negatives of having some sort of invented "stigma" associated with being admitted to TJ under the current process outweighs the positives of, you know, getting a TJ education relative to their other options.

What this tells you is that to this poster (and I'm sure to many, many others), the value of being admitted to TJ was in the status of being *chosen*, not in the actual education they would receive.

For the entirety of TJ's existence, plenty of people have assumed that some form of affirmative action existed, and it only did for a very brief period in the late '90s - when, by the way, TJ was a supermajority WHITE school. So there have always been such whispers going around the school that any Black or Hispanic student admitted was a "diversity admit".

Correct. I wrote that previous post. My point being to switch to a lottery so that everyone that gets in does so based on meeting the qualifications and being lucky enough to win the lottery.

But they didn't switch to a lottery. There isn't really any element of luck at all in the new system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be two views of TJ: 1) it is the best STEM school in the U.S. that should have admissions based on a competitive process to figure out who is the best of the best and 2) a STEM magnate program that should serve all communities and their hard working STEM-focused students with some extra consideration of experience factors that may make their classroom achievements appear less stellar than certain other group. I think a lottery is a necessity at this point to remove the stigma or resentment from certain groups regarding students from other groups that were viewed as given an unwarranted weighting to their application. This way, everyone that gets in does not know if they would have gotten in under the old criteria and will just feel lucky to have won the lottery to such a great school. Either that or shut it down. This current model is unsustainable in the long run based on the stigma and the old model was flawed to the extent it favored those who could afford prep and elaborate extra curriculars. I have nothing against hard working, affluent children, but I can't deny that the old system had barriers to entry that appear to high for less fortunate children.

I don't agree with this. You make a lot of strong points and seem to have a fair command of the situation, but the reality on the ground at TJ so far appears to be that the new class has been admitted and accepted by their peers and are having a positive initial experience, and that should only continue to get stronger as further new classes are admitted under similar processes. There may be trolls on these boards and others who are insistent on creating a "stigma" of some sort, but in reality it has always been the case that students from underrepresented groups at TJ have been viewed as "affirmative action admits" even when no such thing existed.

I am certain that there will be tweaks around the margins of the admissions process in the next several years, but the reality of it is that this process mirrors fairly closely what goes on already at nearly every elite university in America.

Because there was affirmative action admits the stigma attached. Which is a huge disservice to those URM that did not need that help of a racial component to admissions. Huge disservice.

See.... This statement betrays the problematic viewpoint with which so many people interact with the whole TJ thing.

The previous poster here believes that the negatives of having some sort of invented "stigma" associated with being admitted to TJ under the current process outweighs the positives of, you know, getting a TJ education relative to their other options.

What this tells you is that to this poster (and I'm sure to many, many others), the value of being admitted to TJ was in the status of being *chosen*, not in the actual education they would receive.

For the entirety of TJ's existence, plenty of people have assumed that some form of affirmative action existed, and it only did for a very brief period in the late '90s - when, by the way, TJ was a supermajority WHITE school. So there have always been such whispers going around the school that any Black or Hispanic student admitted was a "diversity admit".

Correct. I wrote that previous post. My point being to switch to a lottery so that everyone that gets in does so based on meeting the qualifications and being lucky enough to win the lottery.

But they didn't switch to a lottery. There isn't really any element of luck at all in the new system.

That's the problem and why this thread was started by OP. She is advocating for a lottery. The new system rewards "experience factors" and was clearly done to adjust the racial mix at the school because a race-blind test was a barrier to entry.

[Anonymous]

I agreed with the need for change and a way to bring in more of the underserved population. Unfortunately, the school is already making academic changes - BC Calculus is no longer a requirement for graduation and they have added a lower level entry math course. So people will start saying that the school/curriculum has been diluted. We will have to wait and see what actually happens. Hopefully, the changes will make access to a STEM magnet school more equitable over time without taking away the higher-level courses and research facilities that the truly stellar kids still deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students are responsible for younger siblings, working, and don't have parental support, how will they handle the workload at TJ?

Not saying they shouldn't be given a shot but it doesn't seem like an environment in which they would be able to keep up.

That's their business, not yours. You are looking for a reason not to admit them or for them not to apply. Stop.

Besides, in many of those instances, "care" involves literally just being at home so that the party in question isn't home alone. That doesn't preclude one from doing homework. It does, however, preclude being out at an extracurricular activity.

First, I said in my post that I wasn't saying they shouldn't be given a shot
Second, if the entire process is being re-arranged to accommodate these students and then they fail because the problems they face are still there we will again hear calls for more accommodation. As a taxpayer, its actually my business since those pushing for this made it so. You can't reconfigure everything based on these factors and then say its no one's business. They've made it our business.

Taxpayers have a vested interest in these kids succeeding. Would you rather later pay for their housing food and medical care or for them to create jobs for your grandchildren, pay your pension or create your elder care equipment?

Agreed. Support school choice. Vote Republican.

Not if I were on fire and the GOP had the only hose.

[Anonymous]

Where are your critical-thinking skills?
Did you graduate from FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students are responsible for younger siblings, working, and don't have parental support, how will they handle the workload at TJ?

Not saying they shouldn't be given a shot but it doesn't seem like an environment in which they would be able to keep up.

That's their business, not yours. You are looking for a reason not to admit them or for them not to apply. Stop.

Besides, in many of those instances, "care" involves literally just being at home so that the party in question isn't home alone. That doesn't preclude one from doing homework. It does, however, preclude being out at an extracurricular activity.

First, I said in my post that I wasn't saying they shouldn't be given a shot
Second, if the entire process is being re-arranged to accommodate these students and then they fail because the problems they face are still there we will again hear calls for more accommodation. As a taxpayer, its actually my business since those pushing for this made it so. You can't reconfigure everything based on these factors and then say its no one's business. They've made it our business.

Taxpayers have a vested interest in these kids succeeding. Would you rather later pay for their housing food and medical care or for them to create jobs for your grandchildren, pay your pension or create your elder care equipment?

Agreed. Support school choice. Vote Republican.

Not if I were on fire and the GOP had the only hose.

It’s a shame you are in favor of the institutional racism that is holding URMs back.