Can federal agencies fire you if your performance is satisfactory?

[Anonymous]

I'm not knocking management's socks off, but my performance is satisfactory.

I'm sensing management wants me to move on but I really enjoy my job--although, as I mentioned, I'm not a rock star.

Can federal agencies remove me from my position or fire me if they are no longer happy with my performance--even though I'm rated at satisfactory?

TIA.

[Anonymous]

Well they can't fire you for performance issues.

If you enjoy your job, why aren't you doing better than satisfactory?

[Anonymous]

No, they can't fire you but your manager may assign you different tasks. What's going on with you?

[Anonymous]

Not for performance, but there are other ways to get rid of you. They can fire you for being marginal or lower in any element that is considered critical after PIPing you. If they are literally telling you to move on, they are giving you an easy way out. If you don't take it, I'd expect them to start documenting poor performance and PIP you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well they can't fire you for performance issues.

If you enjoy your job, why aren't you doing better than satisfactory?

The work is pretty complex. As I age into my career (20+ years), I've noticed I'm not as sharp as more junior staff. I'm not alone in this sense. Still, I work hard and provide good work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not for performance, but there are other ways to get rid of you. They can fire you for being marginal or lower in any element that is considered critical after PIPing you. If they are literally telling you to move on, they are giving you an easy way out. If you don't take it, I'd expect them to start documenting poor performance and PIP you.

That makes sense. My rating is not marginal and I've not been PIP'd. It sounds like as long as I'm at satisfactory, or above, I should be ok?

[Anonymous]

It's really hard to fire someone based on performance. They'll likely try and get you on conduct issues. If they want you gone, generally poor, or even average performers have at least a couple conduct issues. It's way easier to document and fire based on conduct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not for performance, but there are other ways to get rid of you. They can fire you for being marginal or lower in any element that is considered critical after PIPing you. If they are literally telling you to move on, they are giving you an easy way out. If you don't take it, I'd expect them to start documenting poor performance and PIP you.

That makes sense. My rating is not marginal and I've not been PIP'd. It sounds like as long as I'm at satisfactory, or above, I should be ok?

yes. Keep in mind they know that no other business unit will touch you with a marginal rating. If they are telling you you're less than satisfactory, they are giving you a way out. If you don't take it, you may be marginal in an element the next time you get a review.

[Anonymous]

With my agency, if your rating is satisfactory they cannot fire you for performance. You need minimally successful or below (or terminology whatever your agency uses) as a rating, then you would be placed on a PIP (documentation to start a PIP needed), then you would have a specified amount of time to be on the PIP and show improvement (all w/documentation), then you are either improved and off the PIP or they can recommend a few different options (reassignment, demotion, removal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not for performance, but there are other ways to get rid of you. They can fire you for being marginal or lower in any element that is considered critical after PIPing you. If they are literally telling you to move on, they are giving you an easy way out. If you don't take it, I'd expect them to start documenting poor performance and PIP you.

That makes sense. My rating is not marginal and I've not been PIP'd. It sounds like as long as I'm at satisfactory, or above, I should be ok?

yes. Keep in mind they know that no other business unit will touch you with a marginal rating. If they are telling you you're less than satisfactory, they are giving you a way out. If you don't take it, you may be marginal in an element the next time you get a review.

+1. Can you have an honest discussion with your manager about your performance? Perhaps it is as PP suggests and your performance really is unsatisfactory even if you were rated satisfactory.

[Anonymous]

Question - are you still doing things the way you did 20 years ago? Are you keeping up with your agency’s new directions? Is it time to try something in another department? I have people working for me that I want to move on (but not fire) because they are stale and reluctant to try new things or do anything differently. It’s also time for them to broaden their skills. Jobs are more interconnected than they were a decade ago. I need my employees to understand more about how all the parts fit together and how and why other groups do what they do. The people with limited external experience are not as helpful.

So I don’t know why you are jumping to being fired, but if you’re getting signs to try something else, it’s time. Or else at some point I’ll reclassify your position and make you apply for it again and you won’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's really hard to fire someone based on performance. They'll likely try and get you on conduct issues. If they want you gone, generally poor, or even average performers have at least a couple conduct issues. It's way easier to document and fire based on conduct.

+1 This is what my agency does. Won't touch performance, but give HR a conduct issue and you're gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really hard to fire someone based on performance. They'll likely try and get you on conduct issues. If they want you gone, generally poor, or even average performers have at least a couple conduct issues. It's way easier to document and fire based on conduct.

+1 This is what my agency does. Won't touch performance, but give HR a conduct issue and you're gone.

NP and do many employees (other than poor performers) have conduct issues? I mean, show up for your assigned hours, do your job and don't look at porn at work and it seems like that covers potential conduct issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really hard to fire someone based on performance. They'll likely try and get you on conduct issues. If they want you gone, generally poor, or even average performers have at least a couple conduct issues. It's way easier to document and fire based on conduct.

+1 This is what my agency does. Won't touch performance, but give HR a conduct issue and you're gone.

What rises to the level of a "conduct" issue? Where I work, low performers often keep their heads down and don't make waves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's really hard to fire someone based on performance. They'll likely try and get you on conduct issues. If they want you gone, generally poor, or even average performers have at least a couple conduct issues. It's way easier to document and fire based on conduct.

+1 This is what my agency does. Won't touch performance, but give HR a conduct issue and you're gone.

What rises to the level of a "conduct" issue? Where I work, low performers often keep their heads down and don't make waves.

I think that pP was speaking out of his a$$. Over 30 years I've seen only two folks getting fired - one cheated on his travel voucher and the other did something with his young femal contractor. Both were SESs and both were escorted out by security guards