Gaza War, Part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all don’t understand jihadists.

They WANT a holy war. That’s their entire purpose in life.

They do not care about dying because they believe they will become martyrs and will gain infinite reward in the afterlife.

Yeah we know. That’s why we’re trying to tell you that they are responsible for the devastation. They WANT IT

[Anonymous]

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To compound the problem, we don’t even have any known terrorist of Jewish faith, or any other faith in recent history- to my knowledge at least.

A few examples:
At the founding of Israel the Irgun, Haganah, the Stern gang. In another place, the IRA.

They don’t fit the definition of terrorist, however aggressive they might have been.

Um... Meir Kahane and Baruch Goldstein. Who just happen to be the personal heroes of the Israeli Minister of National Security, the guy in charge of the Israeli Police.

Goldstein was immediately "denounced with shocked horror even by the mainstream Orthodox",[28] and many in Israel classified Goldstein as insane.[29]

Kahane was charged and convicted.

More about Goldstein and Kahane:

In an address to the Knesset, Rabin, addressing not just Goldstein and his legacy but also other militant settlers, stated: You are not part of the community of Israel ... You are not part of the national democratic camp which we all belong to in this house, and many of the people despise you. You are not partners in the Zionist enterprise. You are a foreign implant. You are an errant weed. Sensible Judaism spits you out. You placed yourself outside the wall of Jewish law ... We say to this horrible man and those like him: you are a shame on Zionism and an embarrassment to Judaism."

The Israeli government condemned the massacre, and responded by arresting followers of Meir Kahane, forbidding certain settlers from entering Arab towns, and demanding that those settlers turn in their army-issued rifles, though rejecting a PLO demand that settlers be disarmed and that an international force be created to protect Palestinians.[10] Goldstein was immediately "denounced with shocked horror even by the mainstream Orthodox",[28] and many in Israel classified Goldstein as insane.[29]

Has any Palestinian official senior leader spoken up publicly and said anything similar about Hamas and 10/7? I’m asking seriously: has any leader in the West Bank or Gaza repudiated the 10/7 massacre like above?

Apparently Abbas tried to criticize Hamas, but the PLO took the criticism down.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/president-abbas-says-hamas-actions-do-not-represent-palestinians-2023-10-15/

So I’m not aware of any West Bank leader that has repudiated Hamas.

Gaza is irrelevant because all the leaders there are Hamas.

So the answer is no. No Palestinian leader has repudiated the attacks of 10/7.

You are creating a false equivalency here trying to pretend Israelis and Palestinians exist in similar situations. If a moderate Israeli rails against Bibi and the response, they may get yelled at on line or shunned by their community. A moderate Palestinian could get killed for calling out Hamas. These people are in a state that should sadden you. They are under the control of a violent terror organization. The are essentially occupied by Israel. They are dirt poor and have no independent access to food, water and fuel. And now their children are getting killed by the hundreds. What power do these folk really have? What “Palestinian leader” exists that could possibly speak out?

There are Palestinian leaders in the West Bank and internationally that could speak out and don’t.

And how do you know they can speak out without putting their families in danger?

Look, I wholehearted condemn the Hamas attacks. I am happy to speak out against that. But there are innocents suffering and I also wholeheartedly condemn that. I absolutely do not believe in an eye for an eye.

I’m sorry, but you are straining credulity. You are asking me to believe that no Palestinian leader or public figure anywhere in the world can speak up and condemn any atrocities by Hamas. That’s plainly nonsense. Quite frankly if the Palestinians have no leaders anywhere in the entire world with any moral backbone, it’s not a great endorsement of that leadership.

Why can’t a single Palestinian leader literally anywhere in the world say “please return the little babies that were taken”?

Do you know any Palestinians or even other Muslims from the region? I have friends who are from Jordan and Lebanon. I also have friends from Israel (Jewish). All are scared to speak out bc they don’t want to identify themselves as Muslim (or from Israel) bc they are afraid of reprisal from both sides. My Jordan friend is scared to talk on the phone bc she thinks people are listening in. I am sure this is paranoia but they are scared. My Lebanese friend was talking about a day trip her mother was taking with a group and someone in the group was talking about how all Muslims were terrorists. Her quote “they had no idea my mother is Lebanese Muslim bc she is so conditioned by years and years of war not to talk about such things”. These are people I know in real life. Honest truth.

So you are saying that the Palestinians have no leaders, then. No brave people. Nobody willing to take risks to speak out against atrocities.

Do you think Israelis who spoke out weren’t afraid? That they didn’t know the risks? Rabin was killed for it! Others have been threatened, beaten up, etc. Yet they spoke out and still speak out.

I’m not Israeli or Palestinian. I have friends who are both, though. Both sides are afraid. But I see only one with leaders willing to speak publicly against atrocities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The US is preventing people from leaving? Jesus you people are deranged.

This US administration has made no arrangements or demands for safe passage of its citizens. Not even a mildly worded statement. They go to the Rafah crossing in desperation and can't be let out. There are dozens posting on Twitter and Instagram. Some have already died. They are nothing but little chess pieces to deliver a cruel message.

That is just false you Hamas parrot.

The truth is there for everyone to see you despicable shill.

The truth? Truth is you want them to die in your deranged jihad.

I want them to come home, but they can't, because making an example of them is a useful terror and dehumanization tactic.

And who is using them? Hamas.

The US is demanding safe passage south, Hamas is preventing it.

Israel will ignore any “demands” of the US. Israel has targeted the civilian convoys and will continue to do so. Gaza is a free fire zone for the IDF. Anything that moves is fair game.

So you admit you’re a liar then. Glad we cleared that up.

If Hamas would give up its hostages, everyone would be safer.

No I admit any civilians including hostages are approved targets for the IDF. Why would Hamas give up hostages?

To stop the war it started you dumbass.

Hamas is a jihadist organization. It wants war. These aren’t rational people.

are you the PP or are you just making my point for me?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:From the Atlantic, a deeply thoughtful article about the profound failure of the settler-colonialist language of the left in this conflict.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/

The whole article is incisive and well-written; here is one quote that stood out:

I always wondered about the leftist intellectuals who supported Stalin, and those aristocratic sympathizers and peace activists who excused Hitler. Today’s Hamas apologists and atrocity-deniers, with their robotic denunciations of “settler-colonialism,” belong to the same tradition but worse: They have abundant evidence of the slaughter of old people, teenagers, and children, but unlike those fools of the 1930s, who slowly came around to the truth, they have not changed their views an iota. The lack of decency and respect for human life is astonishing: Almost instantly after the Hamas attack, a legion of people emerged who downplayed the slaughter, or denied actual atrocities had even happened, as if Hamas had just carried out a traditional military operation against soldiers. October 7 deniers, like Holocaust deniers, exist in an especially dark place.

They are using the colonizer narrative to gain support of gullible people in the nebulous "POC" category, ironically many whose parents moved from their non western country to the country they are protesting in.

I gifted the article for those without an Atlantic subscription:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/?gift=-JEepDEcAn1D86wtlbLwDMUUddpd2QV5A_mdxlSzdRk&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Thank you!

I think the author makes specious arguments. I don’t think of Israel and Palestine through a prism of race - I don’t care about that. The author moves from that immediately into a sentence where he claims Israel’s critics argue that Israel “therefore” cannot be oppressed or victimized - as if that’s the argument used against Israel’s actions when it isn’t. Israel is in my view running an apartheid state as recognized by a sizable number of Israelis in the WB, and is a rightist-run hawkish state that has oppressed murdered and humiliated Palestinians for decades. None of that view is based on US-style identity politics.

The rhetoric of the past 3 weeks or so is 100% U.S. style identity politics--people not condemning Hamas have no other rhetorical tactic to use. They have to make themselves a victim.

Of course the same can be said about the ardent pro-Israelis with their reflexive claims of anti-Semitism, refusal to acknowledge any contribution or fault, and appeals to some sort of ancient historical claim. It's the exact same "we were oppressed in the past so we cannot oppress now" bull crap.

Nope, your whole argument fails because Israel is not at fault for being terrorized against. An no, terrorism is not equal to having your feelings hurt because of a nation that was formed closed to 80 years ago.

Thank you for providng such an on point example.

What has been happening in the West Bank is terrorism. The Israeli Government has terrorists in its Cabinet. There is more than enough fault to go around and yes it is all connected to each other.

Then fight the war you started on 10/7 against your "terrorizers" and don't ask for a ceasefire.

First off F You. You specifically. You are a monster. I didn't do anything and I don't support crimes against humanity. Any crimes against humanity.

You are so mad and spouting explatives because I blew up your entire argument. Your post was rendered non sensible and you do not know how to react.

No you didnt. You outed yourself as a stain on humanity. A walking talking golem of the banality of evil that accused a random person of being a terrorist that commits crimes against humanity because they dared to point out the rot within the Israeli government.

The most ironic thing about this is that while you think you are defending your favorite team you aren't. You're exposing the evil in your heart and discrediting them by implicationm. You have harmed your own cause with your personal inhumanity and evil.

When you (Hamas) start a war, don't be surprised when people fight back, and your loved ones are harmed in the process.

This is what you fail to realize. Hamas doesn’t have “loved ones”. You cannot get to them by harming their human shields. All you do is give up your own humanity.

??? Do you truly believe this?

[Anonymous]

I have a friend who thinks Trump sold Israel out to Russia and Hamas. Honestly not so far fetched. The timing is just really suspect.

He even said “it wouldn’t have happened if I were still president”. You can take that a certain way I suppose.

The world has gone absolutely mad. Praying for a deescalation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all don’t understand jihadists.

They WANT a holy war. That’s their entire purpose in life.

They do not care about dying because they believe they will become martyrs and will gain infinite reward in the afterlife.

Yeah we know. That’s why we’re trying to tell you that they are responsible for the devastation. They WANT IT

All Palestinians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all don’t understand jihadists.

They WANT a holy war. That’s their entire purpose in life.

They do not care about dying because they believe they will become martyrs and will gain infinite reward in the afterlife.

Yeah we know. That’s why we’re trying to tell you that they are responsible for the devastation. They WANT IT

All Palestinians?

No. Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all don’t understand jihadists.

They WANT a holy war. That’s their entire purpose in life.

They do not care about dying because they believe they will become martyrs and will gain infinite reward in the afterlife.

Yeah we know. That’s why we’re trying to tell you that they are responsible for the devastation. They WANT IT

I never said otherwise. I’m not the person you were responding to.

[Anonymous]

The pictures coming out of Gaza are apocalyptic. Will they ever rebuild? What will all those displaced civilians return to?

[Anonymous]

Hezbollah is opening up a front by escalating attacks on their border with Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who thinks Trump sold Israel out to Russia and Hamas. Honestly not so far fetched. The timing is just really suspect.

He even said “it wouldn’t have happened if I were still president”. You can take that a certain way I suppose.

The world has gone absolutely mad. Praying for a deescalation.

I wouldn't say that. My take would be more like Bibi sold us out to the Russians and then they stabbed him in the back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hezbollah is opening up a front by escalating attacks on their border with Israel.

If Israel gets bogged down in Gaza, there will never be a better time for them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hezbollah is opening up a front by escalating attacks on their border with Israel.

If Israel gets bogged down in Gaza, there will never be a better time for them

Of course. This is why they’re taking the opportunity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:From the Atlantic, a deeply thoughtful article about the profound failure of the settler-colonialist language of the left in this conflict.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/

The whole article is incisive and well-written; here is one quote that stood out:

I always wondered about the leftist intellectuals who supported Stalin, and those aristocratic sympathizers and peace activists who excused Hitler. Today’s Hamas apologists and atrocity-deniers, with their robotic denunciations of “settler-colonialism,” belong to the same tradition but worse: They have abundant evidence of the slaughter of old people, teenagers, and children, but unlike those fools of the 1930s, who slowly came around to the truth, they have not changed their views an iota. The lack of decency and respect for human life is astonishing: Almost instantly after the Hamas attack, a legion of people emerged who downplayed the slaughter, or denied actual atrocities had even happened, as if Hamas had just carried out a traditional military operation against soldiers. October 7 deniers, like Holocaust deniers, exist in an especially dark place.

They are using the colonizer narrative to gain support of gullible people in the nebulous "POC" category, ironically many whose parents moved from their non western country to the country they are protesting in.

I gifted the article for those without an Atlantic subscription:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/?gift=-JEepDEcAn1D86wtlbLwDMUUddpd2QV5A_mdxlSzdRk&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Thank you!

I think the author makes specious arguments. I don’t think of Israel and Palestine through a prism of race - I don’t care about that. The author moves from that immediately into a sentence where he claims Israel’s critics argue that Israel “therefore” cannot be oppressed or victimized - as if that’s the argument used against Israel’s actions when it isn’t. Israel is in my view running an apartheid state as recognized by a sizable number of Israelis in the WB, and is a rightist-run hawkish state that has oppressed murdered and humiliated Palestinians for decades. None of that view is based on US-style identity politics.

The rhetoric of the past 3 weeks or so is 100% U.S. style identity politics--people not condemning Hamas have no other rhetorical tactic to use. They have to make themselves a victim.

Of course the same can be said about the ardent pro-Israelis with their reflexive claims of anti-Semitism, refusal to acknowledge any contribution or fault, and appeals to some sort of ancient historical claim. It's the exact same "we were oppressed in the past so we cannot oppress now" bull crap.

Nope, your whole argument fails because Israel is not at fault for being terrorized against. An no, terrorism is not equal to having your feelings hurt because of a nation that was formed closed to 80 years ago.

Thank you for providng such an on point example.

What has been happening in the West Bank is terrorism. The Israeli Government has terrorists in its Cabinet. There is more than enough fault to go around and yes it is all connected to each other.

Then fight the war you started on 10/7 against your "terrorizers" and don't ask for a ceasefire.

First off F You. You specifically. You are a monster. I didn't do anything and I don't support crimes against humanity. Any crimes against humanity.

You are so mad and spouting explatives because I blew up your entire argument. Your post was rendered non sensible and you do not know how to react.

No you didnt. You outed yourself as a stain on humanity. A walking talking golem of the banality of evil that accused a random person of being a terrorist that commits crimes against humanity because they dared to point out the rot within the Israeli government.

The most ironic thing about this is that while you think you are defending your favorite team you aren't. You're exposing the evil in your heart and discrediting them by implicationm. You have harmed your own cause with your personal inhumanity and evil.

When you (Hamas) start a war, don't be surprised when people fight back, and your loved ones are harmed in the process.

This is what you fail to realize. Hamas doesn’t have “loved ones”. You cannot get to them by harming their human shields. All you do is give up your own humanity.

??? Do you truly believe this?

DP: Yes

"You have become the very thing you swore to destroy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all don’t understand jihadists.

They WANT a holy war. That’s their entire purpose in life.

They do not care about dying because they believe they will become martyrs and will gain infinite reward in the afterlife.

It’s middle class Israeli kids fighting a holy war as wealthy Jews, including Bibi’s son party in Miami. We see the savagery of this holy war, it’s live broadcast.