For those with buys jobs/spouses with busy jobs

[Anonymous]

Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

[Anonymous]

I am going through this now!!

I am just deciding that I need attention, I need to be the #1 priority, and that that’s okay. I plan dates, I make a suggestion and we figure out what we want to do together for two hours on a weekend, and we do it. I don’t like making him more stressed at work but that his issue to deal with, not mine. I realized that my husband is a big boy and he can be the one to manage his own stress.

And truly, so far so good. It isn’t as hard as I thought to do this because I know for a fact that it is best for both of us. I’m dealing with present discomfort to avoid much worse discomfort in the figure.

I spoke with my therapist and she gave me a DBT worksheet and handout with a weird acronym called DEAR MAN GIVE and it has been a game-changer. Check it out.

And you aren’t needy! You have needs and that is good and normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

[Anonymous]

*later*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

Excellent advice -- former big law partner who wishes spouse had done this.

[Anonymous]

Ha yeah, ignore everyone and then blame them for not “bringing it to your attention” enough. Like those 500x just weren’t enough…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

Excellent advice -- former big law partner who wishes spouse had done this.

Another BigLaw partner and this is really important. We are teetering on divorce as well. I thought I was being very supportive and she sees it otherwise. I would advise you to be specific in your requests

[Anonymous]

I want a big law partner who actually does things to maintain connection to their spouse without their spouse having to say “hey please pay attention to me for half an hour instead of watching sports” to do an AMA. Clearly some of these big law attorneys are clueless and need help.

[Anonymous]

My DH was Big Law M&A for several years and then a few years ago left to practice on the deal side. Different kinds of demands but still demanding. The years where he worked so many hours and then spent his non-work hours on his own relaxation created a mountain of resentment for me (I also worked full-time, having to later drop to 50% and build back to 80% time to manage the household and parenting responsibilities). I felt completely unsupported — like a single mom with a generous financial benefactor.

We are only still married because
1) he had a major professional setback last year that opened his eyes to the fact that work isnt everything and his self-worth is not his work

2) we recently developed an arrangement, perhaps unorthodox, where we basically apply a custody schedule to who is responsible for the kids/dogs/household on certain days and times. We did so because we thought after counseling etc that we were going to divorce, but executing this arrangement has brought us closer in a way I never imagined. Now he sees what it was like to be me and it’s also allowed him to draw boundaries on his work because he doesn’t have a choice. I can manage the kids and everything without resentment because I know exactly when my break is coming, and I find myself more able to be present and joyful in the time I am with them.

I know you can’t make #1 happen and #2 is unconventional, but there’s a point at which you have to agree on boundaries and stick to them by whatever mechanism you can. What I can tell you is it will not get better without many open discussions — you will continue to pick up the slack at home and he will continue to feel justified in relaxing/de-stressing when he’s not at work. Your resentment will slowly grow and soon be seeded as contempt, which is VERY difficult to come back from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want a big law partner who actually does things to maintain connection to their spouse without their spouse having to say “hey please pay attention to me for half an hour instead of watching sports” to do an AMA. Clearly some of these big law attorneys are clueless and need help.

I suppose I might qualify, although I don't want to do an AMA. But there are a few things.

1. I had to learn this. It is hard not to have the job take over your life.

2. My wife didn't work for years, and now only works very part time.

3. My wife did a good job of reaching out to me and making it easier to be fully involved at home, which I wanted to do.

4. Having said all that, we had, and still have, certain rituals where I could be counted on to be present, physically and mentally and emotionally. Friday nights. Sunday mornings. Certain one-on-one time with the kids. Date nights scheduled regularly (pre-covid). I would plan rusticating vacations where there was little to do but be together.

5. My ability to do all this has gotten better as I've become more established and less subject to other people's whims.

6. I work from home now and make a point to greet each kid when they come home from school and say goodbye and give a hug in the mornings. My wife and I sometimes go out for lunch on weekdays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

[Anonymous]

DW here with a busy job. DH and had a conversation about how we handle our “reentry” into the family after busy periods at work differently. He is ready to jump in and gets energy from that. I, on the other hand, need a bit of a transition period. So I am welcome to schedule a family event or social time for DH right when he has downtime; whereas, I need a day to recover, quietly catch up on things at home, etc.

Talking about it and being willing to be self-reflective on what we need has made this much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

I’m simply disputing the idea that OP needs to spend more time thinking about how hard her husband has it. My take is that she has spent too much time thinking about that and not enough time thinking about what she realistically needs.