For those with buys jobs/spouses with busy jobs

[Anonymous]

My husbands company does a lot of acquisitions and that can be an incredibly intense and stressful period. During normal times he is a really good partner so I accept that during deals he's going to pretty much out of touch with me and our kids. I don't like it but I understand it and I know he's grateful that I don't get in his face. These kinds of periods are the price we pay for two careers.

[Anonymous]

Yes, we both do things for each other. DH just brought me a mug of vegetable broth. We do our own laundry, and last night I folded his for him while he was reading to one of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

I'm the poster to whom you are responding. I meant "do more" in the sense of connecting with the spouse and figuring out a path forward that works for all. That can actually feel like an additional burden when you are so stressed, but it is necessary. I obviously don't know, but your husband might welcome this conversation because he might be looking for an escape from that lifestyle. And he might not be aware that you are willing to make the changes (lifestyle and otherwise) that enable that. Anyway, good luck with that. Being a lawyer working on big matters is a very draining way of life, but it can be great too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

I'm the poster to whom you are responding. I meant "do more" in the sense of connecting with the spouse and figuring out a path forward that works for all. That can actually feel like an additional burden when you are so stressed, but it is necessary. I obviously don't know, but your husband might welcome this conversation because he might be looking for an escape from that lifestyle. And he might not be aware that you are willing to make the changes (lifestyle and otherwise) that enable that. Anyway, good luck with that. Being a lawyer working on big matters is a very draining way of life, but it can be great too.

It’s okay. I didn’t expect you to have the answer. I just wanted to get my side of things out there. I was at work late last night and waiting for something to show up.
I don’t understand this resistance to re-evaluate your life if what you are doing is making yourself and everyone around you miserable. I can only assume that there is something very rewarding about your life at work that seems to make it all worth it.
Of course he knows that I would be willing to work more or move to a different city or smaller house to have less stress and be with him more. I have told him that explicitly. Also really, who wouldn’t want that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

I'm the poster to whom you are responding. I meant "do more" in the sense of connecting with the spouse and figuring out a path forward that works for all. That can actually feel like an additional burden when you are so stressed, but it is necessary. I obviously don't know, but your husband might welcome this conversation because he might be looking for an escape from that lifestyle. And he might not be aware that you are willing to make the changes (lifestyle and otherwise) that enable that. Anyway, good luck with that. Being a lawyer working on big matters is a very draining way of life, but it can be great too.

It’s okay. I didn’t expect you to have the answer. I just wanted to get my side of things out there. I was at work late last night and waiting for something to show up.
I don’t understand this resistance to re-evaluate your life if what you are doing is making yourself and everyone around you miserable. I can only assume that there is something very rewarding about your life at work that seems to make it all worth it.
Of course he knows that I would be willing to work more or move to a different city or smaller house to have less stress and be with him more. I have told him that explicitly. Also really, who wouldn’t want that?

A lot of people! I am with you, but a lot of people in the DC area see as the pinnacle of success a Big Law (or similar) job, a house in Bethesda (or McLean or whatever), maybe a beach house, nice cars, tons of "enrichment" for the kids, etc. All that takes a lot of money.

And truthfully, for someone who is a partner (a real partner, not just a glorified senior associate) at a successful law firm, there is nowhere else they will make that kind of money. In house, not close. Government, forget about it. And anything, like finance, where you make that much or more, if it is even possible to make the switch, will require just as much time. So people get to feeling "trapped" in a high earning but otherwise miserable law job because their family depends on that level of income to maintain a lifestyle. Then the social scene depends on that, too. So yeah, maybe you could be happier in a lower stress job earning less money, but would you be happier moving, maybe switching from public to private school, not having all the extracurricular activities for kids, saving less for retirement, taking less elaborate vacations, maybe not being able to keep up with the rich friend group, etc. I am NOT saying this is your situation. I am just answering the question of who would not want to make the switch you are suggesting.

But I am with you. I think all of that stuff that people end up chasing is fool's gold and a silly way to spend your one wild life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

I'm the poster to whom you are responding. I meant "do more" in the sense of connecting with the spouse and figuring out a path forward that works for all. That can actually feel like an additional burden when you are so stressed, but it is necessary. I obviously don't know, but your husband might welcome this conversation because he might be looking for an escape from that lifestyle. And he might not be aware that you are willing to make the changes (lifestyle and otherwise) that enable that. Anyway, good luck with that. Being a lawyer working on big matters is a very draining way of life, but it can be great too.

It’s okay. I didn’t expect you to have the answer. I just wanted to get my side of things out there. I was at work late last night and waiting for something to show up.
I don’t understand this resistance to re-evaluate your life if what you are doing is making yourself and everyone around you miserable. I can only assume that there is something very rewarding about your life at work that seems to make it all worth it.
Of course he knows that I would be willing to work more or move to a different city or smaller house to have less stress and be with him more. I have told him that explicitly. Also really, who wouldn’t want that?

A lot of people! I am with you, but a lot of people in the DC area see as the pinnacle of success a Big Law (or similar) job, a house in Bethesda (or McLean or whatever), maybe a beach house, nice cars, tons of "enrichment" for the kids, etc. All that takes a lot of money.

And truthfully, for someone who is a partner (a real partner, not just a glorified senior associate) at a successful law firm, there is nowhere else they will make that kind of money. In house, not close. Government, forget about it. And anything, like finance, where you make that much or more, if it is even possible to make the switch, will require just as much time. So people get to feeling "trapped" in a high earning but otherwise miserable law job because their family depends on that level of income to maintain a lifestyle. Then the social scene depends on that, too. So yeah, maybe you could be happier in a lower stress job earning less money, but would you be happier moving, maybe switching from public to private school, not having all the extracurricular activities for kids, saving less for retirement, taking less elaborate vacations, maybe not being able to keep up with the rich friend group, etc. I am NOT saying this is your situation. I am just answering the question of who would not want to make the switch you are suggesting.

But I am with you. I think all of that stuff that people end up chasing is fool's gold and a silly way to spend your one wild life.

I don’t really believe this. Obviously, this is the circle I run in. My personal experience is that people settle for these things when they know they aren’t ever going to have a true partner. If (s)he is going to be working all of the time, you might as well at least enjoy the money. I don’t know anyone who went into marriage with the idea that they would flush their own career down the toilet and only see their spouse for thirty minutes a day at dinner.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

I'm the poster to whom you are responding. I meant "do more" in the sense of connecting with the spouse and figuring out a path forward that works for all. That can actually feel like an additional burden when you are so stressed, but it is necessary. I obviously don't know, but your husband might welcome this conversation because he might be looking for an escape from that lifestyle. And he might not be aware that you are willing to make the changes (lifestyle and otherwise) that enable that. Anyway, good luck with that. Being a lawyer working on big matters is a very draining way of life, but it can be great too.

It’s okay. I didn’t expect you to have the answer. I just wanted to get my side of things out there. I was at work late last night and waiting for something to show up.
I don’t understand this resistance to re-evaluate your life if what you are doing is making yourself and everyone around you miserable. I can only assume that there is something very rewarding about your life at work that seems to make it all worth it.
Of course he knows that I would be willing to work more or move to a different city or smaller house to have less stress and be with him more. I have told him that explicitly. Also really, who wouldn’t want that?

A lot of people! I am with you, but a lot of people in the DC area see as the pinnacle of success a Big Law (or similar) job, a house in Bethesda (or McLean or whatever), maybe a beach house, nice cars, tons of "enrichment" for the kids, etc. All that takes a lot of money.

And truthfully, for someone who is a partner (a real partner, not just a glorified senior associate) at a successful law firm, there is nowhere else they will make that kind of money. In house, not close. Government, forget about it. And anything, like finance, where you make that much or more, if it is even possible to make the switch, will require just as much time. So people get to feeling "trapped" in a high earning but otherwise miserable law job because their family depends on that level of income to maintain a lifestyle. Then the social scene depends on that, too. So yeah, maybe you could be happier in a lower stress job earning less money, but would you be happier moving, maybe switching from public to private school, not having all the extracurricular activities for kids, saving less for retirement, taking less elaborate vacations, maybe not being able to keep up with the rich friend group, etc. I am NOT saying this is your situation. I am just answering the question of who would not want to make the switch you are suggesting.

But I am with you. I think all of that stuff that people end up chasing is fool's gold and a silly way to spend your one wild life.

I don’t really believe this. Obviously, this is the circle I run in. My personal experience is that people settle for these things when they know they aren’t ever going to have a true partner. If (s)he is going to be working all of the time, you might as well at least enjoy the money. I don’t know anyone who went into marriage with the idea that they would flush their own career down the toilet and only see their spouse for thirty minutes a day at dinner.

This doesn’t make sense. The response you are responding to is talking about why people stay in jobs that take a million hours. And that’s because it’s hard to leave when your lifestyles is dependent on it. Basically, people stay in jobs with long hours because leaving would be a huge hit to lifestyle. It was in response to the question above as to why someone wouldn’t want to just downshift and leave that lifestyle. You are answering from the perspective of the other spouse.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes being busy in high stress situations makes people too focused. Your husband may not be doing this on purpose. Several years ago I acquired a business with 45 employees. For two years straight I was busy as hell workin 70-80 hours a week.

I sold the business three years later for a tremendous profit. But, during my time there it was stressful to the point I even lost 15lbs due to not eating. There were days when I skipped breakfast and lunch.

Speak with your husband about it upfront in a caring manner. You may be surprised of the reaction. Also, the reason he turns to sports is so he can turn off his brain.

[Anonymous]

We do small things, like if we are WAH we bring each other tea or snacks. Send romantic or suggestive texts during the day. Take each other out for surprise lunch break. Have a shower together at night. You got to get creative on how you are going to connect. But yes, if he’s so stressed he has no bandwidth to find even small joys in life it might be time to discuss if this is worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

It sounds like you’re on different planets. Have you really sat down and discussed this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

So to be clear, your question is not about how can you get him to help you with the house and kids and other things you're doing, but how can you get him to connect with you? Because the answer is different depending on the question.

If you want to spend time with him, then schedule something for you to do. It could be as simple as watching Netflix together (literal Netflix and chill) or going to dinner (or even eating dinner at home after the kids have gone to bed, depending on how old your kids are).

Also, talk to him. Tell him you feel lonely. Tell him you understand he has needs, but so do you. See if you can find a way that you can both do something relaxing, enjoyable, and that reconnects you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you do anything for your spouse during busy times/after a big project is done (or does your busy spouse)? I am married to a law firm partner. He has been crushed with work lately, and I give him a lot of grace during these times. But when does it end? When he has a free moment, he turns on baseball or soccer. I’m working, managing our house and kids and picking up all the slack and I feel like he can find 10 minutes to ask me how I’m doing, what’s something I’m excited about, etc. He thinks we are fine but I am incredibly lonely. Im just wondering how other couples with busy/demanding jobs find a way to connect with their spouse.

This is why most biglaw partners wind up divorced. The job takes all your energy, and you have nothing left for the people in your life. If you have not already, you need to have "the talk" with your DH and tell him how you feel. Maybe he will commit to making time for your family and your relationship and maybe he won't. But, he definitely will not do it if you don't spell it out for him. Do it sooner rather than latter, before the wall of resentment gets too high.

As a law firm partner, I will add, it is not just the hours, but also the stress, the extremely high expectations, and especially if he is a litigator, the absolute garbage attitudes of other lawyers. This is why a lot of lawyers drink too much and veg out on phones/tv. It is an escape because the next day you will wake up and have to dive right back in -- for the next couple decades. And if you AREN'T busy, then you are stressed about business generation, getting the pipeline going, etc. I am fortunate to be at a place/stage where I am fairly secure (knock on wood) in my job, but at a lot of firms, even partners are on the razor's edge.

All that is to say that what you are seeing may only be the tip of the iceberg for stress. And the stress of not only providing for a family now, but also guaranteeing the pipeline into the future, is much more than the stress of balancing a job and maintaining the home, etc. That is not to minimize what you are going through, but to say that it is something to be considered when you are talking about the number of hours worked.

But, of course, he cannot just check out from his relationships. So yes, talk with him about finding ways to connect him back into the family life. He is not going to be happy sacrificing all the wonderful things in his life (your relationship, his relationship with kids and parents, health, hobbies, etc.) on the altar of Big Law money. So have an honest conversation about family life, time, finances, careers. But I think it is best to go into it with a full picture of the stress involved.

Spouse of big law partner here. We know this well enough. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t bend over backwards and put our needs far down on the priority list so that our partners can manage their stress levels. I don’t think OP needs to know more about how hard the job is for her spouse. I imagine that she has been putting up with his not making the effort to talk to her for ten minutes and instead watch sports because she *knows* he is barely been hanging on by a thread and it isn’t just about hours.

It is soooo hard, so hard, to ask for more from a big law spouse, because we know they are already at the end of their ropes. What OP needs to keep in mind is not that because she has already more than internalized how hard it is for her partner. What she needs to consider more is that her needs are valid and that it’s not just okay but vital that she insist on more.

I didn't mean to suggest you and others in a similar situation don't bend over backwards. I am just saying that even if you can see the long hours and stress from the outside, there are lots of stresses that you don't see, and that you don't experience if you are not the breadwinner in a very tenuous and competitive job.

But I do agree that he needs to do more. I thought my comment made that clear. And I think that she should go into it with the understanding that even when he is not "at work", there is a lot of work stress and distraction lurking under the surface. But yes, she should be getting more, and he should be giving more. I thought my comment made that clear.

DP. Im the wife of a man with a busy job. I don’t really agree that he needs to do more. People have limits on what they can do, and it sounds like most of the big law partners and others are already going beyond normal human limits on stress and fatigue. Asking them to do more seems unreasonable.
What I would like is a real discussion where we evaluate options, and my needs are taken into account. Maybe we can both agree that the job is worth the sacrifice to our family, to his health, to our relationships outside of the family, and to my career. But maybe it isn’t, and we can work as a team to come up with another solution.
It feels unfair that he just makes this unilateral decision to spend all of his energy at work, and I am just left to figure out how to navigate life and raise a family as a married person without an actual partner. This isn’t what I wanted. I didn’t agree to choose between being exhausted or giving up my career. I didn’t agree to spend my evenings lonely and alone and faking smiles so the kids don’t worry.
I don’t want him to do more. I want him to re-evaluate the place that his work takes in his life.

I'm the poster to whom you are responding. I meant "do more" in the sense of connecting with the spouse and figuring out a path forward that works for all. That can actually feel like an additional burden when you are so stressed, but it is necessary. I obviously don't know, but your husband might welcome this conversation because he might be looking for an escape from that lifestyle. And he might not be aware that you are willing to make the changes (lifestyle and otherwise) that enable that. Anyway, good luck with that. Being a lawyer working on big matters is a very draining way of life, but it can be great too.

It’s okay. I didn’t expect you to have the answer. I just wanted to get my side of things out there. I was at work late last night and waiting for something to show up.
I don’t understand this resistance to re-evaluate your life if what you are doing is making yourself and everyone around you miserable. I can only assume that there is something very rewarding about your life at work that seems to make it all worth it.
Of course he knows that I would be willing to work more or move to a different city or smaller house to have less stress and be with him more. I have told him that explicitly. Also really, who wouldn’t want that?

A lot of people! I am with you, but a lot of people in the DC area see as the pinnacle of success a Big Law (or similar) job, a house in Bethesda (or McLean or whatever), maybe a beach house, nice cars, tons of "enrichment" for the kids, etc. All that takes a lot of money.

And truthfully, for someone who is a partner (a real partner, not just a glorified senior associate) at a successful law firm, there is nowhere else they will make that kind of money. In house, not close. Government, forget about it. And anything, like finance, where you make that much or more, if it is even possible to make the switch, will require just as much time. So people get to feeling "trapped" in a high earning but otherwise miserable law job because their family depends on that level of income to maintain a lifestyle. Then the social scene depends on that, too. So yeah, maybe you could be happier in a lower stress job earning less money, but would you be happier moving, maybe switching from public to private school, not having all the extracurricular activities for kids, saving less for retirement, taking less elaborate vacations, maybe not being able to keep up with the rich friend group, etc. I am NOT saying this is your situation. I am just answering the question of who would not want to make the switch you are suggesting.

But I am with you. I think all of that stuff that people end up chasing is fool's gold and a silly way to spend your one wild life.

Wife here. I had the Big Law job. The large salary. The mansion. The kids in private school. And it was killing me. So I took a job at a smaller firm in a beach town, we live on the water in a dream house that we built, our kids still go to a private school that we like even more than the one we were at in DC, we still drive nice cars and take great vacations, but we spend so much more time together. I get what you're saying, and that's not for everyone. But I look back at my old co-workers still toiling away in DC and I think why on earth would they not leave like I did? My life is infinitely better.

[Anonymous]

Wife here. I had the Big Law job. The large salary. The mansion. The kids in private school. And it was killing me. So I took a job at a smaller firm in a beach town, we live on the water in a dream house that we built, our kids still go to a private school that we like even more than the one we were at in DC, we still drive nice cars and take great vacations, but we spend so much more time together. I get what you're saying, and that's not for everyone. But I look back at my old co-workers still toiling away in DC and I think why on earth would they not leave like I did? My life is infinitely better.

Good for you for having the guts to make such a big change. Not easy to do. Most people are terrified of change.