Game of Thrones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally!!!!! R+L=J!!!!!!!!!!!

this is Robert Baratheon and Lianna Stark (Ned's sister)= Jon Snow, btw, for people who are wondering. So stoked! Ned's honor is restored--Jon's still a bastard, tho

Raegar Targaryen, not Robert Baratheon

Really? Because I really thought that Lianna was the true love of Robert--which is why Ned kept the fact of Jon's parentage from Robert--Ned had been doing Robert a solid all these years and protecting his sister's honor by claiming Jon as his own. Otherwise, why lie to Robert about Jon?

Because it's someone else's baby and Robert would kill the baby if he knew.

Not just someone else's baby, but Rhaegar's baby, making Jon the true heir (assuming not a bastard, but even then a threat) to the throne instead of Robert. Remember Season One, when Robert was desperate to have Dany and her baby killed, causing a major rift with Ned Stark? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNbIzszY4k

King Robert would have done the same with Jon Snow, if he'd known. That's why Lyanna begged Ned to promise (presumably to raise Jon as his own, or at least to protect Jon), causing a major strain in Ned's marriage.

And Robert was definitely in love with Lyanna, but that doesn't mean Lyanna was in love with Robert, who she knew would be a bed-hopper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jon seems quite dark to be half Targaryen--but I'll have to watch finale again, of course, and focus on the Lianna scene...

NP here. Lyanna had dark hair. So Jon gets his dark hair from her. I think that is why they had that scene -- to show that he takes after his mother but is still Targaryen.

I agree with the PP that Sansa is worried FOR Jon. She doesn't trust Little Finger. If she had any interest in the Iron Throne, she wouldn't have rebuffed his offer. And I don't think she will ever forgive him for the entire Ramsey thing. She knows LF serves himself and that he only cares about her in so far as she is useful to him.

As for Tommen, I do think that he loved Margery. I don't think his love was misplaced. Margery is shrewd, but she is not nasty in the way that Cercei is. She may not have loved Tommen like he thought she did, but she was the actually the right mixture of shrewd and reasonable that a queen should be. I think he committed suicide out of a combination of sadness that she was killed and a horrible realization that his mother is horrible -- willing and capable of doing unthinkable things. I don't think he wanted to be that kind of king, but he realized that he had no real power, not even in his home, to be the kind of king he wanted to be -- the kind of king Margery was trying to make him. His action was a combination of grief and escape.

I actually think it's telling that Cercei didn't seem that upset that he died. Compare how upset she was over Geoffrey's death compared to Tommen's death. I think that she liked that Geoffrey was ruthless, even if his sheer level of ruthlessness even surpassed her own. I think she was actually kind of disgusted by Tommen's compassion and preference for nonviolence. And I think she was even perhaps relieved that he was gone, because she could see he was not going to be the kind of king she thought he should be.

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I wonder how things will develop between Dany and Jon. Even if it comes to light that Jon is Targaryen, I can't imagine she will readily believe it without seeing him survive fire or some such thing. I don't think Jon is interested in the Iron Throne. Perhaps they will negotiate something.

But the real question in my mind is, what happened to Ghost? I don't recall Ghost getting killed in any of the episodes. Perhaps I missed something?

And will Nymeria come back now that Arya has returned?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this is petty, but I expected Lyanna Stark to be gorgeous. Both Robert and Rhaegar wanted here and started a war about it. She was pretty average and plain looking. Why couldn't they have got a hotter actress?

I thought the same thing, and also thought she'd be a bit more fierce, with Arya's spunky fighting spirit. But then I said "she's bathed in blood and dying from childbirth" and gave her the benefit of the doubt.

And about Bran ... what good does it do for Bran to know about Jon, but no one else? No one else alive heard Lyanna. So, next season Bran show up at Winterfell or Kings Landing, having been missing since forever, with no direwolf to prove who he is, and tells everyone "Hey, I'm really Bran -- no, really! -- and Jon (my faux bro) is actually king! Hey guys, wait up ,,, guys? fellas??"

So Jon is still a bastard, but with Targaryan blood, meaning he can ride a dragon with Dany, but at her side. Dany will rule, not Jon. But does Tyrion also have Targaryan blood (will Bran see that, too, the Joanna + Aerys coupling?), and be the third dragon rider?

Plenty to come!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So did anyone else get the feeling that tyrion is in love with Dany after their conversation about how there will be other men that love her?

Yes, very much so. DH disagreed.

No, not really. I got the impression he thought she was beautiful and admired her, but not really that he was seriously in love with her, no.

I don't think Tyrion is in love with Dany at all. I think he respects her and is in awe of her. But I don't think he has romantic love for her. I think there is more a sort of sibling love between them. And I half wonder if something will surface that suggests Tyrion is related to her in some way.

His father hated him so much. Is it just because he is a dwarf? Is it really because his mother died while giving birth? I mean, if he really loved his wife, he would want to protect the child she died to birth. I think there is a potential story line there, especially given Dany's dragons reacted the way they did to Tyrion even with Dany not present.

I also think that Tyrion has not gotten over his other love -- the woman who slept with his father. Tyrion is a romantic at heart. I think he's the kind that doesn't heal from a broken heart easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is petty, but I expected Lyanna Stark to be gorgeous. Both Robert and Rhaegar wanted here and started a war about it. She was pretty average and plain looking. Why couldn't they have got a hotter actress?

I thought the same thing, and also thought she'd be a bit more fierce, with Arya's spunky fighting spirit. But then I said "she's bathed in blood and dying from childbirth" and gave her the benefit of the doubt.

And about Bran ... what good does it do for Bran to know about Jon, but no one else? No one else alive heard Lyanna. So, next season Bran show up at Winterfell or Kings Landing, having been missing since forever, with no direwolf to prove who he is, and tells everyone "Hey, I'm really Bran -- no, really! -- and Jon (my faux bro) is actually king! Hey guys, wait up ,,, guys? fellas??"

So Jon is still a bastard, but with Targaryan blood, meaning he can ride a dragon with Dany, but at her side. Dany will rule, not Jon. But does Tyrion also have Targaryan blood (will Bran see that, too, the Joanna + Aerys coupling?), and be the third dragon rider?

Plenty to come!

If Jon can survive fire, then people will believe he is Targaryan. I don't think Jon wants the Iron Throne anyhow. I don't even think he wants to be king of the north. Heck, he didn't even want to be lord commander of the Knight's Watch.

Jon's main goal/concern is the army of the dead. That's been his main concern. He doesn't care about ruling. He's a reluctant king -- but that's the point. The best rulers are the ones who really don't want power but get into power out of a sense of obligation to the people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jon seems quite dark to be half Targaryen--but I'll have to watch finale again, of course, and focus on the Lianna scene...

NP here. Lyanna had dark hair. So Jon gets his dark hair from her. I think that is why they had that scene -- to show that he takes after his mother but is still Targaryen.

I agree with the PP that Sansa is worried FOR Jon. She doesn't trust Little Finger. If she had any interest in the Iron Throne, she wouldn't have rebuffed his offer. And I don't think she will ever forgive him for the entire Ramsey thing. She knows LF serves himself and that he only cares about her in so far as she is useful to him.

As for Tommen, I do think that he loved Margery. I don't think his love was misplaced. Margery is shrewd, but she is not nasty in the way that Cercei is. She may not have loved Tommen like he thought she did, but she was the actually the right mixture of shrewd and reasonable that a queen should be. I think he committed suicide out of a combination of sadness that she was killed and a horrible realization that his mother is horrible -- willing and capable of doing unthinkable things. I don't think he wanted to be that kind of king, but he realized that he had no real power, not even in his home, to be the kind of king he wanted to be -- the kind of king Margery was trying to make him. His action was a combination of grief and escape.

I actually think it's telling that Cercei didn't seem that upset that he died. Compare how upset she was over Geoffrey's death compared to Tommen's death. I think that she liked that Geoffrey was ruthless, even if his sheer level of ruthlessness even surpassed her own. I think she was actually kind of disgusted by Tommen's compassion and preference for nonviolence. And I think she was even perhaps relieved that he was gone, because she could see he was not going to be the kind of king she thought he should be.

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I wonder how things will develop between Dany and Jon. Even if it comes to light that Jon is Targaryen, I can't imagine she will readily believe it without seeing him survive fire or some such thing. I don't think Jon is interested in the Iron Throne. Perhaps they will negotiate something.

But the real question in my mind is, what happened to Ghost? I don't recall Ghost getting killed in any of the episodes. Perhaps I missed something?

And will Nymeria come back now that Arya has returned?

Ghost was cut from episode 9 for budget reasons. I saw some comments from the director along the lines of "you can have Ghost or Wun Wun, but there's not enough in the special effects budget to have both." He also wanted that battle of the bastards to be modeled on Agincourt, not Cannae, but again changed it to meet budget. Nice to know even Hollywood needs live within a budget!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So did anyone else get the feeling that tyrion is in love with Dany after their conversation about how there will be other men that love her?

I think she inspires love in men, especially because she is untouchable for most of them. It's a mixture of romantic love and hero-worship.

Like Elizabeth the First

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jon seems quite dark to be half Targaryen--but I'll have to watch finale again, of course, and focus on the Lianna scene...

NP here. Lyanna had dark hair. So Jon gets his dark hair from her. I think that is why they had that scene -- to show that he takes after his mother but is still Targaryen.

I agree with the PP that Sansa is worried FOR Jon. She doesn't trust Little Finger. If she had any interest in the Iron Throne, she wouldn't have rebuffed his offer. And I don't think she will ever forgive him for the entire Ramsey thing. She knows LF serves himself and that he only cares about her in so far as she is useful to him.

As for Tommen, I do think that he loved Margery. I don't think his love was misplaced. Margery is shrewd, but she is not nasty in the way that Cercei is. She may not have loved Tommen like he thought she did, but she was the actually the right mixture of shrewd and reasonable that a queen should be. I think he committed suicide out of a combination of sadness that she was killed and a horrible realization that his mother is horrible -- willing and capable of doing unthinkable things. I don't think he wanted to be that kind of king, but he realized that he had no real power, not even in his home, to be the kind of king he wanted to be -- the kind of king Margery was trying to make him. His action was a combination of grief and escape.

I actually think it's telling that Cercei didn't seem that upset that he died. Compare how upset she was over Geoffrey's death compared to Tommen's death. I think that she liked that Geoffrey was ruthless, even if his sheer level of ruthlessness even surpassed her own. I think she was actually kind of disgusted by Tommen's compassion and preference for nonviolence. And I think she was even perhaps relieved that he was gone, because she could see he was not going to be the kind of king she thought he should be.

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I wonder how things will develop between Dany and Jon. Even if it comes to light that Jon is Targaryen, I can't imagine she will readily believe it without seeing him survive fire or some such thing. I don't think Jon is interested in the Iron Throne. Perhaps they will negotiate something.

But the real question in my mind is, what happened to Ghost? I don't recall Ghost getting killed in any of the episodes. Perhaps I missed something?

And will Nymeria come back now that Arya has returned?

Jamie is going to end up killing Cersei. He doesn't want to. He loves her. He won't let her destroy King's Landing, though. He killed one king for trying to burn it down. He will kill her for the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I actually think it's telling that Cercei didn't seem that upset that he died. Compare how upset she was over Geoffrey's death compared to Tommen's death. I think that she liked that Geoffrey was ruthless, even if his sheer level of ruthlessness even surpassed her own. I think she was actually kind of disgusted by Tommen's compassion and preference for nonviolence. And I think she was even perhaps relieved that he was gone, because she could see he was not going to be the kind of king she thought he should be.

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I think Cercei's non-reaction may simply be due to the fact that she has gone over the edge now. Without her children, her last shred of humanity is gone.

I agree about Jamie having mixed feelings as he watched her in the throne room. And Tommen was his child, also. He also has lost all his children, children he never got to love and acknowledge as a father (other than Myrcella at the end. That scene with Myrcella on the boat where they acknowledged each other was so moving.) And Jamie, although capable of a lot of bad shit, is not as far gone as Cercei, so I agree it will be really interesting to see where their relationship goes.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how things will develop between Dany and Jon. Even if it comes to light that Jon is Targaryen, I can't imagine she will readily believe it without seeing him survive fire or some such thing. I don't think Jon is interested in the Iron Throne. Perhaps they will negotiate something.

Another piece of this puzzle is that Tyrion spent time with Jon on the journey to the Wall and then at the Wall. Dany will likely hear about Jon from Tyrion, who came to like Jon (and Jon him) before Tyrion left. And...Sansa was married to Tyrion in Kings Landing and he was just about the *only* person there who treated her with kindness and respect. So it is likely Sansa is predisposed to have kinder feelings towards Tyrion than most other people. Having Tyrion as her advisor may color how Jon and Sansa see Dany.

Anonymous wrote:But the real question in my mind is, what happened to Ghost? I don't recall Ghost getting killed in any of the episodes. Perhaps I missed something?

And will Nymeria come back now that Arya has returned?

I know! I miss Ghost and have always hoped that Arya and Nymeria will be reunited. Corny, I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally!!!!! R+L=J!!!!!!!!!!!

this is Robert Baratheon and Lianna Stark (Ned's sister)= Jon Snow, btw, for people who are wondering. So stoked! Ned's honor is restored--Jon's still a bastard, tho

Raegar Targaryen, not Robert Baratheon

Really? Because I really thought that Lianna was the true love of Robert--which is why Ned kept the fact of Jon's parentage from Robert--Ned had been doing Robert a solid all these years and protecting his sister's honor by claiming Jon as his own. Otherwise, why lie to Robert about Jon?

Because it's someone else's baby and Robert would kill the baby if he knew.

Not just someone else's baby, but Rhaegar's baby, making Jon the true heir (assuming not a bastard, but even then a threat) to the throne instead of Robert. Remember Season One, when Robert was desperate to have Dany and her baby killed, causing a major rift with Ned Stark? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpNbIzszY4k

King Robert would have done the same with Jon Snow, if he'd known. That's why Lyanna begged Ned to promise (presumably to raise Jon as his own, or at least to protect Jon), causing a major strain in Ned's marriage.

And Robert was definitely in love with Lyanna, but that doesn't mean Lyanna was in love with Robert, who she knew would be a bed-hopper.

Yeah, I think that Ned knew (as did Lyanna) that Robert, while not all bad and probably an improvement over the Mad King, was very flawed. He was jealous. He liked battling. I mean, all of the conversations he had with Ned were about the glory days of being at war.

Jon and Ned are a lot alike. And perhaps that's because Ned raised Jon that way. But I think that the impression we are supposed to get is that when all of that happened, Ned Stark really should have been the one to take the throne as he would've made a far better king than Robert. It sounds like Robert shirked a lot of his duties. He liked to be king. He liked war and power. He liked philandering and drinking. But he didn't seem like an even-tempered or particularly wise or benevolent man. He didn't even seem like a particularly shrewd man, because Cercei duped him into believing all three kids were his even though they hardly slept together (remember when she talked about that??? how he was so drunk all of the time, he wouldn't have known otherwise.)

Ned Stark, much like Jon, had the temperament, the wisdom, the integrity, to be a good ruler, but he didn't want to be king.

All that aside, even though Robert was his friend, he knew Robert's flaws and knew he'd kill the baby.

[Anonymous]

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I totally thought he was thinking, "Great, another royal I have to kill."

How are Jaimie, Arya and others showing up on time in all these long distance destinations when it seems to take all season, or at least several episodes, to travel in other instances?

[Anonymous]

I agree Jamie will end up killing Ceresi, she's become too crazy for him to stomach now.

I foresee a Dany/Jamie coupling in the future and Jamie finally happy with legitimate Lannister/Targaryen children.

Jon want accept being King of the North. I think he'll devote his life to protecting the realm in the queens guard, especially when it comes to light that he is Dany's nephew which I think will happen accidentally and not from Bran letting on what he's seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I actually think it's telling that Cercei didn't seem that upset that he died. Compare how upset she was over Geoffrey's death compared to Tommen's death. I think that she liked that Geoffrey was ruthless, even if his sheer level of ruthlessness even surpassed her own. I think she was actually kind of disgusted by Tommen's compassion and preference for nonviolence. And I think she was even perhaps relieved that he was gone, because she could see he was not going to be the kind of king she thought he should be.

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I think Cercei's non-reaction may simply be due to the fact that she has gone over the edge now. Without her children, her last shred of humanity is gone.

I agree about Jamie having mixed feelings as he watched her in the throne room. And Tommen was his child, also. He also has lost all his children, children he never got to love and acknowledge as a father (other than Myrcella at the end. That scene with Myrcella on the boat where they acknowledged each other was so moving.) And Jamie, although capable of a lot of bad shit, is not as far gone as Cercei, so I agree it will be really interesting to see where their relationship goes.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how things will develop between Dany and Jon. Even if it comes to light that Jon is Targaryen, I can't imagine she will readily believe it without seeing him survive fire or some such thing. I don't think Jon is interested in the Iron Throne. Perhaps they will negotiate something.

Another piece of this puzzle is that Tyrion spent time with Jon on the journey to the Wall and then at the Wall. Dany will likely hear about Jon from Tyrion, who came to like Jon (and Jon him) before Tyrion left. And...Sansa was married to Tyrion in Kings Landing and he was just about the *only* person there who treated her with kindness and respect. So it is likely Sansa is predisposed to have kinder feelings towards Tyrion than most other people. Having Tyrion as her advisor may color how Jon and Sansa see Dany.

Anonymous wrote:But the real question in my mind is, what happened to Ghost? I don't recall Ghost getting killed in any of the episodes. Perhaps I missed something?

And will Nymeria come back now that Arya has returned?

I know! I miss Ghost and have always hoped that Arya and Nymeria will be reunited. Corny, I know.

Just one of those things that impresses me about GRRM's writing -- how he put Tyrion in all these places -- like the Wall -- in the first book, knowing that it would be useful far, far in advance. Like the name "Hodor" -- did he think about "Hold the Door" that long ago? Makes you understand why he takes so long to write each book; he has to think 5 moves ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I actually think it's telling that Cercei didn't seem that upset that he died. Compare how upset she was over Geoffrey's death compared to Tommen's death. I think that she liked that Geoffrey was ruthless, even if his sheer level of ruthlessness even surpassed her own. I think she was actually kind of disgusted by Tommen's compassion and preference for nonviolence. And I think she was even perhaps relieved that he was gone, because she could see he was not going to be the kind of king she thought he should be.

As for Jaimie, I think he is coming to see that Cercei is crazy. Jaimie can be ruthless as well (let's not forget what happened to Bran), but Jaimie's character has grown. I think he is also smarter than Cercei and knows that a ruler who is hated and viewed as crazy won't last long. After all, Jaimie is the one who killed the mad king. I think that scene where he looks at Cercei on the thrown is him starting to realize that Cercei is slightly (if not full on) mad. I think he also might realize that she sent him away for a reason. It will be interesting to see how they interact.

I think Cercei's non-reaction may simply be due to the fact that she has gone over the edge now. Without her children, her last shred of humanity is gone.

I agree about Jamie having mixed feelings as he watched her in the throne room. And Tommen was his child, also. He also has lost all his children, children he never got to love and acknowledge as a father (other than Myrcella at the end. That scene with Myrcella on the boat where they acknowledged each other was so moving.) And Jamie, although capable of a lot of bad shit, is not as far gone as Cercei, so I agree it will be really interesting to see where their relationship goes.

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how things will develop between Dany and Jon. Even if it comes to light that Jon is Targaryen, I can't imagine she will readily believe it without seeing him survive fire or some such thing. I don't think Jon is interested in the Iron Throne. Perhaps they will negotiate something.

Another piece of this puzzle is that Tyrion spent time with Jon on the journey to the Wall and then at the Wall. Dany will likely hear about Jon from Tyrion, who came to like Jon (and Jon him) before Tyrion left. And...Sansa was married to Tyrion in Kings Landing and he was just about the *only* person there who treated her with kindness and respect. So it is likely Sansa is predisposed to have kinder feelings towards Tyrion than most other people. Having Tyrion as her advisor may color how Jon and Sansa see Dany.

Anonymous wrote:But the real question in my mind is, what happened to Ghost? I don't recall Ghost getting killed in any of the episodes. Perhaps I missed something?

And will Nymeria come back now that Arya has returned?

I know! I miss Ghost and have always hoped that Arya and Nymeria will be reunited. Corny, I know.

In Martin's original outline for the books, he had Jon Snow and Arya Stark hooking up at the end, so maybe Ghost + Nymeria = KickAssPups.

[Anonymous]

Why is Cersei on the Iron Throne instead of Jaime? As the male Lannister heir, wouldn't he have a stronger claim to the throne than Cersei?