Game of Thrones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read all of the books because some folks I respect recommended them. I did not like them as much as they did. There is some great stuff in there and a lot of bloat. GRRM is wandering all over the place. He fell in love with his world and piles layer on top of layer from multiple POV characters. He needs an editor to force him to dial it back and focus on his main characters and storylines. The other stuff with minor characters is good, but should have been published as short stories. He has a huge bloat problem.

I think the TV series is better than the books because it focuses on a handful of main characters and moves the plot forward more rapidly than GRRM can. It's gorgeously filmed and well acted. Hedley and Dinklage and Dormer and the actor who plays Varys and the actor who plays Lady Oleanna, in particular, are doing outstanding work.

I am not upset about what happened to Sansa. In a medieval society, this was one of the outcomes for women. I think the show is doing a lot of exceptional work examining how women use power and are victimized by power in a patriarchal society. As much as I hate Cersei, her abject fear when her father tells her that she has to marry again was heart-breaking. Sansa, Oleanna, early Dani, Margarey, and Catelyn are all about women learning to wield soft power in a patriarchal society. Arya and Brienne and later Dani are all about what happens when women take a more masculine approach to power and agency. I think this may be some of the most feminist writing I've seen in a while.

If the treatment of Sansa makes people uncomfortable, good. It should. My grandmother had a marriage that involved a lot of that treatment. It isn't pretty.

I tend to agree- I hate to see some of the good characters wasted in meandering plot lines. So glad they're doing away with the Tyrion book plot (after he leaves Westeros) and moving right into what we want to see.

Like your take on women and power in this world- very articulate.

+2

I've read the books and watch the show, and I love that even book-readers are being surprised now--it's departing a lot from what GRRM wrote. (SPOILERS, but Tyrion has already met Dany! That's eliminated hundreds of pages of rambling narrative!)

If DB & DW went exactly with the books, the Ramsay scene wouldn't have been with Sansa, and it would have been so. Much. Worse. I like where the show is going.

[Anonymous]

I disagree on "bloat." I've read all 5 books 3 times and seen all but the current season of the show. I love that the books are long and full of detail and asides and atmosphere. I love the world he's created and like that I get to spend so much time in it. Plus many of the "side" plots and characters actually contribute to the "main" plot in that they fill in little details in reconstructing the backstory on all the main characters and their parents and how all the claimants to the Iron Throne came to be and why certain people are supporting certain others. But it takes 2-3 reads of the books to start piecing all this together- on the first read you don't know which details are important and which are just atmosphere.

I'm leery of watching the current season because it sounds like they are changing so much form the books- why is Sansa marrying Ramsay instead of Jayne Poole, why is Jaime going to Dorne, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree on "bloat." I've read all 5 books 3 times and seen all but the current season of the show. I love that the books are long and full of detail and asides and atmosphere. I love the world he's created and like that I get to spend so much time in it. Plus many of the "side" plots and characters actually contribute to the "main" plot in that they fill in little details in reconstructing the backstory on all the main characters and their parents and how all the claimants to the Iron Throne came to be and why certain people are supporting certain others. But it takes 2-3 reads of the books to start piecing all this together- on the first read you don't know which details are important and which are just atmosphere.

I'm leery of watching the current season because it sounds like they are changing so much form the books- why is Sansa marrying Ramsay instead of Jayne Poole, why is Jaime going to Dorne, etc.

OP here- I think you might like this season unless you're a purist. It's not clear whether the plot is really changing or whether the producers are having main characters take over some of the story arc to compress it a bit.

I like the details too- there were a few things I could have done without.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I'm sure I will be watching it soon! I love the visuals and the acting. I'd like the show to slow down the plot for the same reason I like the long books- I'd like it to go on for as long as possible! They'll run out of books soon and there's no sign GRRM is ready with books 6 & 7!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree on "bloat." I've read all 5 books 3 times and seen all but the current season of the show. I love that the books are long and full of detail and asides and atmosphere. I love the world he's created and like that I get to spend so much time in it. Plus many of the "side" plots and characters actually contribute to the "main" plot in that they fill in little details in reconstructing the backstory on all the main characters and their parents and how all the claimants to the Iron Throne came to be and why certain people are supporting certain others. But it takes 2-3 reads of the books to start piecing all this together- on the first read you don't know which details are important and which are just atmosphere.

I'm leery of watching the current season because it sounds like they are changing so much form the books- why is Sansa marrying Ramsay instead of Jayne Poole, why is Jaime going to Dorne, etc.

7:18 here. Give it a try. I agree with you that "bloat" can be an important part of creating the world and realism of the show, and as frustrating as the suspense can be when reading the books, I don't "mind" it. It just doesn't translate well into tv, and I'm glad that the show's writers have changed things. I think it's working well, and I actually find this storyline for Sansa to be quite compelling.

[Anonymous]

I've read the books and am on season 4 in the tv show. I like how the series has opened up fantasy to a wider audience and now HBO is seriously considering bring Asimov's Foundation to the small screen. It would be great to see more classic sci-fi/fantasy get the treatments they deserve. Also, maybe we could finally get a decent adaptation of Dune and Earthsea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read the books and am on season 4 in the tv show. I like how the series has opened up fantasy to a wider audience and now HBO is seriously considering bring Asimov's Foundation to the small screen. It would be great to see more classic sci-fi/fantasy get the treatments they deserve. Also, maybe we could finally get a decent adaptation of Dune and Earthsea.

Foundation? A good Earthsea? Sign me up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read all of the books because some folks I respect recommended them. I did not like them as much as they did. There is some great stuff in there and a lot of bloat. GRRM is wandering all over the place. He fell in love with his world and piles layer on top of layer from multiple POV characters. He needs an editor to force him to dial it back and focus on his main characters and storylines. The other stuff with minor characters is good, but should have been published as short stories. He has a huge bloat problem.

I think the TV series is better than the books because it focuses on a handful of main characters and moves the plot forward more rapidly than GRRM can. It's gorgeously filmed and well acted. Hedley and Dinklage and Dormer and the actor who plays Varys and the actor who plays Lady Oleanna, in particular, are doing outstanding work.

I am not upset about what happened to Sansa. In a medieval society, this was one of the outcomes for women. I think the show is doing a lot of exceptional work examining how women use power and are victimized by power in a patriarchal society. As much as I hate Cersei, her abject fear when her father tells her that she has to marry again was heart-breaking. Sansa, Oleanna, early Dani, Margarey, and Catelyn are all about women learning to wield soft power in a patriarchal society. Arya and Brienne and later Dani are all about what happens when women take a more masculine approach to power and agency. I think this may be some of the most feminist writing I've seen in a while.

If the treatment of Sansa makes people uncomfortable, good. It should. My grandmother had a marriage that involved a lot of that treatment. It isn't pretty.

I tend to agree- I hate to see some of the good characters wasted in meandering plot lines. So glad they're doing away with the Tyrion book plot (after he leaves Westeros) and moving right into what we want to see.

Like your take on women and power in this world- very articulate.

+2

I've read the books and watch the show, and I love that even book-readers are being surprised now--it's departing a lot from what GRRM wrote. (SPOILERS, but Tyrion has already met Dany! That's eliminated hundreds of pages of rambling narrative!)

If DB & DW went exactly with the books, the Ramsay scene wouldn't have been with Sansa, and it would have been so. Much. Worse. I like where the show is going.

I agree with you guys. I have been a bit taken aback by the reaction to Sansa's rape scene. I hated it, for sure, and it was very difficult to watch, but it was totally expected. It was a demonstration of how completely gone Theon is, that even in that moment, he could not bring himself to help Sansa.

[Anonymous]

Last night was crazy tense at the end. This season has been such a huge departure from the books but in a way I find totally exciting.

I agree with the bloat comment, and it really felt like GRRM was never going to finish this epic story. I think the writers of the series have done an excellent job picking the necessary elements and moving the story forward. I imagine the next season will be totally new territory for fans of the book since there is no release of another novel in site and we have basically caught up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last night was crazy tense at the end. This season has been such a huge departure from the books but in a way I find totally exciting.

I agree with the bloat comment, and it really felt like GRRM was never going to finish this epic story. I think the writers of the series have done an excellent job picking the necessary elements and moving the story forward. I imagine the next season will be totally new territory for fans of the book since there is no release of another novel in site and we have basically caught up.

Last night was great-- loved it!

[Anonymous]

How dare someone chasten you for liking it, publicly? That's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I got a little lost in Bravos bc I was putting dishes away. Why did Arya follow Lord Tyrell and the guys into the whorehouse? Do we know that guy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I got a little lost in Bravos bc I was putting dishes away. Why did Arya follow Lord Tyrell and the guys into the whorehouse? Do we know that guy?

I think that Kingsguard with Lord Tyrell is one of the men on her "list" -- Meryn Trant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I got a little lost in Bravos bc I was putting dishes away. Why did Arya follow Lord Tyrell and the guys into the whorehouse? Do we know that guy?

I think that Kingsguard with Lord Tyrell is one of the men on her "list" -- Meryn Trant?

PP again. Yes, it's Meryn Trant. I just looked it up here: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Meryn_Trant

He's the one who attacks Arya and presumably kills her sword fighting instructor, Syrio.

[Anonymous]

Wow - tonight's episode was slow to start, but had a great ending!