Game of Thrones

[Anonymous]

I have a question/thought to pose-- mainly because I'm feeling some angst but I'm genuinely interested to hear other thoughts.

Background: I've read all five books prior to watching the series. I think Martin has accomplished something so far that no other fantasy author has come close to- excellent (not Pulitzer excellent) writing throughout all five books. A plot that is intricate, but maintaining coherency.

The books are equally as violent (some cases more) as the show-both the men and women are victims and perpetrators. While I think Martin could have toned it down in some notable cases, I didn't find the violence overly gratuitous in the books or tv show. Hard to read, hard to watch, absolutely.

Anyhow... I posted on FB how much I like Game of Thrones. A person I respect chastised me (in a kind of humiliating way) for liking the show and recommending it.

Has anyone here read all of the books (so far) and watched the show? Thoughts?

If you like the show, why? Me, personally, I cannot stand scenes with Theon (because of above), I love scenes with Tyrion and Jon Snow and Brienne.

Are you more tolerant of the violence because you've read the books. The answer for me would be "probably."

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the books but I love the show.

[Anonymous]

I have read the books multiple times and watch the show. I have enjoyed the books more, though I think this season has been better than the last few.

It probably has to do with the publicized controversy over what happened to Sansa. Honestly, I don't get that. I have been disturbed by so much in this show. I'm not sure how that scene was the final straw for people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question/thought to pose-- mainly because I'm feeling some angst but I'm genuinely interested to hear other thoughts.

Background: I've read all five books prior to watching the series. I think Martin has accomplished something so far that no other fantasy author has come close to- excellent (not Pulitzer excellent) writing throughout all five books. A plot that is intricate, but maintaining coherency.

The books are equally as violent (some cases more) as the show-both the men and women are victims and perpetrators. While I think Martin could have toned it down in some notable cases, I didn't find the violence overly gratuitous in the books or tv show. Hard to read, hard to watch, absolutely.

Anyhow... I posted on FB how much I like Game of Thrones. A person I respect chastised me (in a kind of humiliating way) for liking the show and recommending it.

Has anyone here read all of the books (so far) and watched the show? Thoughts?

If you like the show, why? Me, personally, I cannot stand scenes with Theon (because of above), I love scenes with Tyrion and Jon Snow and Brienne.

Are you more tolerant of the violence because you've read the books. The answer for me would be "probably."

OP here- admittedly, my post is incoherent. I was taken aback (and a bit hurt) by my friend's scathing FB response and I like to analyze such a strong reaction. GoT isn't everyone's bag, but the books are gritty, epic fantasy. I think the show mirrors the spirit of the books. There are differences, but only to compress the plot into something manageable for tv.

[Anonymous]

Some people will always find things to be outraged about. Lose that friend. Game of thrones is enjoyed by millions of people around the world. I have read every book and watched every episode. You are in good company.

[Anonymous]

Some people also take delight on criticizing what contributes joy to others. George rr martins books are well written and fantastical. I would block your friend from reading your fb post, you can't just walk on egg shells around her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have read the books multiple times and watch the show. I have enjoyed the books more, though I think this season has been better than the last few.

It probably has to do with the publicized controversy over what happened to Sansa. Honestly, I don't get that. I have been disturbed by so much in this show. I'm not sure how that scene was the final straw for people.

Yes- the elephant in the room. This is not a moral story like King Arthur or Lord of the Rings. I personally find the stuff with Theon worse because he has become such a victim. I sense that Sansa will not be a victim for long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people also take delight on criticizing what contributes joy to others. George rr martins books are well written and fantastical. I would block your friend from reading your fb post, you can't just walk on egg shells around her.

Thank you both- I was feeling like a moral degenerate with questionable intelligence for liking this series. I'm actually a well educated person who does loves reading where I can escape to Middle Earth or the Seven Kingdoms or Dune.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people also take delight on criticizing what contributes joy to others. George rr martins books are well written and fantastical. I would block your friend from reading your fb post, you can't just walk on egg shells around her.

Thank you both- I was feeling like a moral degenerate with questionable intelligence for liking this series. I'm actually a well educated person who does loves reading where I can escape to Middle Earth or the Seven Kingdoms or Dune.

Your friend sounds like a piece of work

[Anonymous]

The last time a got thread got posted it was overrun by critics over the Sansa rape scene just like your friend who probably did not even pick up a book. It then got deleted, I wonder why. I would go over to reddit game of thrones for a more reasonable discussion of themes in the show without it being overrun by harpies.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read the books multiple times and watch the show. I have enjoyed the books more, though I think this season has been better than the last few.

It probably has to do with the publicized controversy over what happened to Sansa. Honestly, I don't get that. I have been disturbed by so much in this show. I'm not sure how that scene was the final straw for people.

Yes- the elephant in the room. This is not a moral story like King Arthur or Lord of the Rings. I personally find the stuff with Theon worse because he has become such a victim. I sense that Sansa will not be a victim for long.

I agree with you. I think she knew she was going to have endure some terrible treatment and had steeled herself up so that she would not be broken.

[Anonymous]

I've read all of the books because some folks I respect recommended them. I did not like them as much as they did. There is some great stuff in there and a lot of bloat. GRRM is wandering all over the place. He fell in love with his world and piles layer on top of layer from multiple POV characters. He needs an editor to force him to dial it back and focus on his main characters and storylines. The other stuff with minor characters is good, but should have been published as short stories. He has a huge bloat problem.

I think the TV series is better than the books because it focuses on a handful of main characters and moves the plot forward more rapidly than GRRM can. It's gorgeously filmed and well acted. Hedley and Dinklage and Dormer and the actor who plays Varys and the actor who plays Lady Oleanna, in particular, are doing outstanding work.

I am not upset about what happened to Sansa. In a medieval society, this was one of the outcomes for women. I think the show is doing a lot of exceptional work examining how women use power and are victimized by power in a patriarchal society. As much as I hate Cersei, her abject fear when her father tells her that she has to marry again was heart-breaking. Sansa, Oleanna, early Dani, Margarey, and Catelyn are all about women learning to wield soft power in a patriarchal society. Arya and Brienne and later Dani are all about what happens when women take a more masculine approach to power and agency. I think this may be some of the most feminist writing I've seen in a while.

If the treatment of Sansa makes people uncomfortable, good. It should. My grandmother had a marriage that involved a lot of that treatment. It isn't pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read all of the books because some folks I respect recommended them. I did not like them as much as they did. There is some great stuff in there and a lot of bloat. GRRM is wandering all over the place. He fell in love with his world and piles layer on top of layer from multiple POV characters. He needs an editor to force him to dial it back and focus on his main characters and storylines. The other stuff with minor characters is good, but should have been published as short stories. He has a huge bloat problem.

I think the TV series is better than the books because it focuses on a handful of main characters and moves the plot forward more rapidly than GRRM can. It's gorgeously filmed and well acted. Hedley and Dinklage and Dormer and the actor who plays Varys and the actor who plays Lady Oleanna, in particular, are doing outstanding work.

I am not upset about what happened to Sansa. In a medieval society, this was one of the outcomes for women. I think the show is doing a lot of exceptional work examining how women use power and are victimized by power in a patriarchal society. As much as I hate Cersei, her abject fear when her father tells her that she has to marry again was heart-breaking. Sansa, Oleanna, early Dani, Margarey, and Catelyn are all about women learning to wield soft power in a patriarchal society. Arya and Brienne and later Dani are all about what happens when women take a more masculine approach to power and agency. I think this may be some of the most feminist writing I've seen in a while.

If the treatment of Sansa makes people uncomfortable, good. It should. My grandmother had a marriage that involved a lot of that treatment. It isn't pretty.

One of the main points of discontent for the GOT books is that he starts off strong and the later books have a bunch of plot lines that have main characters wandering around aimlessly. So you are right there is a lot of bloat.

+1 on the perspective on women in GOT. This was an unpleasant reality and is still for many women still in many parts of the world. I am getting tired of the knee jerk outrage by spectators on any minuscule thing that triggers them. The people condemning the Sansa rape are actually not giving her more credit for how strong she is and how she will start playing the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read all of the books because some folks I respect recommended them. I did not like them as much as they did. There is some great stuff in there and a lot of bloat. GRRM is wandering all over the place. He fell in love with his world and piles layer on top of layer from multiple POV characters. He needs an editor to force him to dial it back and focus on his main characters and storylines. The other stuff with minor characters is good, but should have been published as short stories. He has a huge bloat problem.

I think the TV series is better than the books because it focuses on a handful of main characters and moves the plot forward more rapidly than GRRM can. It's gorgeously filmed and well acted. Hedley and Dinklage and Dormer and the actor who plays Varys and the actor who plays Lady Oleanna, in particular, are doing outstanding work.

I am not upset about what happened to Sansa. In a medieval society, this was one of the outcomes for women. I think the show is doing a lot of exceptional work examining how women use power and are victimized by power in a patriarchal society. As much as I hate Cersei, her abject fear when her father tells her that she has to marry again was heart-breaking. Sansa, Oleanna, early Dani, Margarey, and Catelyn are all about women learning to wield soft power in a patriarchal society. Arya and Brienne and later Dani are all about what happens when women take a more masculine approach to power and agency. I think this may be some of the most feminist writing I've seen in a while.

If the treatment of Sansa makes people uncomfortable, good. It should. My grandmother had a marriage that involved a lot of that treatment. It isn't pretty.

7:18 here. I agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read all of the books because some folks I respect recommended them. I did not like them as much as they did. There is some great stuff in there and a lot of bloat. GRRM is wandering all over the place. He fell in love with his world and piles layer on top of layer from multiple POV characters. He needs an editor to force him to dial it back and focus on his main characters and storylines. The other stuff with minor characters is good, but should have been published as short stories. He has a huge bloat problem.

I think the TV series is better than the books because it focuses on a handful of main characters and moves the plot forward more rapidly than GRRM can. It's gorgeously filmed and well acted. Hedley and Dinklage and Dormer and the actor who plays Varys and the actor who plays Lady Oleanna, in particular, are doing outstanding work.

I am not upset about what happened to Sansa. In a medieval society, this was one of the outcomes for women. I think the show is doing a lot of exceptional work examining how women use power and are victimized by power in a patriarchal society. As much as I hate Cersei, her abject fear when her father tells her that she has to marry again was heart-breaking. Sansa, Oleanna, early Dani, Margarey, and Catelyn are all about women learning to wield soft power in a patriarchal society. Arya and Brienne and later Dani are all about what happens when women take a more masculine approach to power and agency. I think this may be some of the most feminist writing I've seen in a while.

If the treatment of Sansa makes people uncomfortable, good. It should. My grandmother had a marriage that involved a lot of that treatment. It isn't pretty.

I tend to agree- I hate to see some of the good characters wasted in meandering plot lines. So glad they're doing away with the Tyrion book plot (after he leaves Westeros) and moving right into what we want to see.

Like your take on women and power in this world- very articulate.