Zero empathy of the man cold

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I feel like this sometimes when the dual working parent thing feels like a slog, but then I’ve seen a lot of job loss over the past year and thankfully these are friends with dual incomes so they still have 1 paycheck keeping them afloat.

I didn’t grow up with wealth (in fact I was the first in my family to graduate college). So the thought of giving up my income potential is more anxiety-inducing than working. Also, I grew up with a SAHM and she was very adamant about me having my own education and career FWIW.

In my mind the dream setup is a breadwinner + a spouse with a lower paying, but flexible and/or part time job who has their foot in the door of the industry and can ramp up as kids get older or as otherwise needed.

Unfortunately this country doesn’t have the necessary safety nets for most families to count on just 1 job unless that person is a super high earner and saver/investor early on.

OP DH makes $500k-$750k PER YEAR.

One year of work you have a better safety net then majority of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I disagree. The dual-income model (both earning close to what the other does, both relatively high earners) works very well for us. We've been equals since the day our twins were born (they had to be formula fed so my husband fed them as much as I did) and we have been 50/50 on all things since then. (Obviously there are some things that one of us does 100% on, but with the kids we are half and half). I can't imagine only one of us working and only one of us doing most of the childcare. Our kids know that they have two equal parents to whom they can turn for anything. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

You both work FT? How does your day work? Who gets home and picks up kids, makes dinner, gets them to activities?

DP, but for my family DH and I both have remote / hybrid with short commute jobs (respectively) and flexible hours. We stagger schedules so one person handles mornings and the other handles after school. We are both involved somewhat in the early evening though to divide and conquer kids in different places, coaching teams, driving carpool, etc. We can catch up at night or weekends if needed.

Dinners are simple. Breakfast for dinner, taco night, spaghetti night, baked potato bar, etc. plus usually a night or two of takeout or leftovers. We have 3 kids involved in a lot of stuff so we only eat all together 1-2 times per week. The other nights we eat in shifts, but the kids often go to each other’s games and we do family movie nights, etc. so we still get in time together even if not at the dinner table each night.

Cleaning is outsourced. Laundry is on a schedule with kids increasingly involved as they get older. It can be exhausting at times, but has gotten a lot easier as the kids become older and more independent. They are even helpful at times now!

Oh if you both have mostly telework and flexible enough to have a short work day and then catch up at night, that can work. But hard to be sure to you will have that flexibility over the 15 years you need it. But basically you both effectively work part time if your days are that short; most FT workers also work after kids are in bed too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I disagree. The dual-income model (both earning close to what the other does, both relatively high earners) works very well for us. We've been equals since the day our twins were born (they had to be formula fed so my husband fed them as much as I did) and we have been 50/50 on all things since then. (Obviously there are some things that one of us does 100% on, but with the kids we are half and half). I can't imagine only one of us working and only one of us doing most of the childcare. Our kids know that they have two equal parents to whom they can turn for anything. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine if he has the flu and needs a few nights of good rest. But during the daytime, he needs to take medicine and power through enough to do some things. Maybe he can’t get through the entire to do list but he can at least sit on the couch and watch the kids or put a load of laundry in. Parents don’t get to check out completely.

"Do some things?" Like his job? Or are you suggesting that when he is sick enough to stay home from work, he should take medicine and watch the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

Ahhh, another jerk who states their opinion like it's fact.

Nope. The kids are little for a short period and there are many of us who found good partners who know how to work as a team through that limited period when the kids are young and things are hard. Then kids get older and they can do chores too and don't need the same constant supervision and the wife still hasn't lost her earning potential or missed out on a fulfilling career that she worked just as hard as her husband to secure before they had kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine if he has the flu and needs a few nights of good rest. But during the daytime, he needs to take medicine and power through enough to do some things. Maybe he can’t get through the entire to do list but he can at least sit on the couch and watch the kids or put a load of laundry in. Parents don’t get to check out completely.

"Do some things?" Like his job? Or are you suggesting that when he is sick enough to stay home from work, he should take medicine and watch the kids?

I promise you, this guy (who is a big law attorney) is not taking the day off from work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine if he has the flu and needs a few nights of good rest. But during the daytime, he needs to take medicine and power through enough to do some things. Maybe he can’t get through the entire to do list but he can at least sit on the couch and watch the kids or put a load of laundry in. Parents don’t get to check out completely.

"Do some things?" Like his job? Or are you suggesting that when he is sick enough to stay home from work, he should take medicine and watch the kids?

What do you think his wife does when he's traveling if she gets sick? Just check out completely on the kids? WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - the problem is when he travels he has to do day conferences/meetings and then spends the rest of the evening trying to get his actual work done. Of course going out to eat and drinking doesn’t help but he isn’t out boozing all night.

When he is on the west coast he is waking up at east coast hours and going to bed on west coast hours. So getting way less sleep.

He definitely washes his hands enough. He is a germaphobe.

So it’s completely understandable that he is sick, you know he’s not faking, and you’re pretty much just acting like a selfish AH? You need therapy.

Sorry, when you're the parent to multiple children, you don't get to just peace out when you have some sniffles and a headache. Take some meds and do your part. The world would literally fall apart if women coddled themselves the way men do when they're sick. You'd think they had the bubonic plague.

I'm Team OP. We've had way too many experiences where my husband was gone for a work trip, came home with a man cold, ignored the kids and slept for another few days. If you are all pretending you've never seen this man cold, I think you're lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I disagree. The dual-income model (both earning close to what the other does, both relatively high earners) works very well for us. We've been equals since the day our twins were born (they had to be formula fed so my husband fed them as much as I did) and we have been 50/50 on all things since then. (Obviously there are some things that one of us does 100% on, but with the kids we are half and half). I can't imagine only one of us working and only one of us doing most of the childcare. Our kids know that they have two equal parents to whom they can turn for anything. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

You both work FT? How does your day work? Who gets home and picks up kids, makes dinner, gets them to activities?

DP, but for my family DH and I both have remote / hybrid with short commute jobs (respectively) and flexible hours. We stagger schedules so one person handles mornings and the other handles after school. We are both involved somewhat in the early evening though to divide and conquer kids in different places, coaching teams, driving carpool, etc. We can catch up at night or weekends if needed.

Dinners are simple. Breakfast for dinner, taco night, spaghetti night, baked potato bar, etc. plus usually a night or two of takeout or leftovers. We have 3 kids involved in a lot of stuff so we only eat all together 1-2 times per week. The other nights we eat in shifts, but the kids often go to each other’s games and we do family movie nights, etc. so we still get in time together even if not at the dinner table each night.

Cleaning is outsourced. Laundry is on a schedule with kids increasingly involved as they get older. It can be exhausting at times, but has gotten a lot easier as the kids become older and more independent. They are even helpful at times now!

Oh if you both have mostly telework and flexible enough to have a short work day and then catch up at night, that can work. But hard to be sure to you will have that flexibility over the 15 years you need it. But basically you both effectively work part time if your days are that short; most FT workers also work after kids are in bed too.

DP. Life is always changing. Imagine preemptively taking yourself out of the workforce because something may not suit years from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I disagree. The dual-income model (both earning close to what the other does, both relatively high earners) works very well for us. We've been equals since the day our twins were born (they had to be formula fed so my husband fed them as much as I did) and we have been 50/50 on all things since then. (Obviously there are some things that one of us does 100% on, but with the kids we are half and half). I can't imagine only one of us working and only one of us doing most of the childcare. Our kids know that they have two equal parents to whom they can turn for anything. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

You both work FT? How does your day work? Who gets home and picks up kids, makes dinner, gets them to activities?

We both work full-time, from home since COVID. Our kids leave the house at 7:15 to get on the bus for school and they get home from the bus at 4:15. One day a week, my husband takes them to their joint sports practice. One day a week, I take them. Twice a week they carpool with others (and we take the other kids). They only have competitions on the weekends, so we both attend those.

We take turns making dinner on the nights the kids are home early enough from sports. Some nights a week they eat in the car on the way home because practice goes late.

We have cleaners, so both of us keep the house neat and we take turns cleaning places like the kitchen that needs cleaning daily.

Until 2021 we had a full-time nanny, who transitioned to a household manager as the kids spent more hours a day at school. Her husband was transferred for his job (military) so she moved at the end of that year, otherwise we'd probably still have her, although with the kids being older and us now both working from home and traveling less we don't need it as much.

I do think there's a HHI piece to this. If you're both busting your butts working full-time for $50K each and one of you could earn $200K if the other didn't work, then yeah, this model likely isn't for you. In our case, our HHI is around $600K with each of us earning around half that. I could earn $600K alone but I'd be miserable and I'd definitely be working a lot more hours (my husband could not, his job is not scalable the way mine is). We had our kids in our early 30's so we had a decade of work under our belts before that time and therefore we both pretty high up by the time we took maternity and paternity leave. That seniority helped with flexibility and ultimately led to us both being able to work from home permanently. (Not sure that would have happened without COVID though, but we did both work from home at least one day a week prior to 2020).

I find that our equality in things works very well for both of us and I'm happy that our kids are seeing two parents who mostly both do everything. But that's just my opinion. You're free to disagree.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine if he has the flu and needs a few nights of good rest. But during the daytime, he needs to take medicine and power through enough to do some things. Maybe he can’t get through the entire to do list but he can at least sit on the couch and watch the kids or put a load of laundry in. Parents don’t get to check out completely.

"Do some things?" Like his job? Or are you suggesting that when he is sick enough to stay home from work, he should take medicine and watch the kids?

What do you think his wife does when he's traveling if she gets sick? Just check out completely on the kids? WTF?

What are you prattling on about? When the husband gets home and doesn't feel well, the wife is home. Obviously is one of them is the sole caretaker at any point then yes, they need to step up (although I feel like many of you are over-dramatizing the needs of your children for a few days). But when both of you are there and one of you is sick, then step up and help. Of course this goes both ways, I wouldn't be as willing to do so for my husband if he didn't do the same for me. But then that's a bigger problem than the man cold thing. Some of you just have really crappy husbands, it seems.

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Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I feel like this sometimes when the dual working parent thing feels like a slog, but then I’ve seen a lot of job loss over the past year and thankfully these are friends with dual incomes so they still have 1 paycheck keeping them afloat.

I didn’t grow up with wealth (in fact I was the first in my family to graduate college). So the thought of giving up my income potential is more anxiety-inducing than working. Also, I grew up with a SAHM and she was very adamant about me having my own education and career FWIW.

In my mind the dream setup is a breadwinner + a spouse with a lower paying, but flexible and/or part time job who has their foot in the door of the industry and can ramp up as kids get older or as otherwise needed.

Unfortunately this country doesn’t have the necessary safety nets for most families to count on just 1 job unless that person is a super high earner and saver/investor early on.

Like OP’s husband?

Yes, this could work for OP. But I was responding to the person who said the breadwinner/SAHM combo is the best model. But the reality is it’s not for many families because not all breadwinners have high paying, stable jobs, and ample savings.

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Anonymous wrote:Oh my goodness OP I thought I had written this. I get you 100 percent- my husband is also a lawyer and does the same thing about going to meetings all day and then working late. It sounds absolutely miserable to me and he hates it too and has pushed back and is traveling less now he’s slightly more established. I don’t have a ton of answers because I basically pressure my husband 24/7 to try and find a different job. Different firm or go in house or something! He’s miserable a lot of the time and asks a lot of the rest of us. The money is not even as much as you might think and is not worth it. I basically just want to validate that if he’s making these choices and you do not agree the trade offs are worth it you are entitled to that opinion. Many people would rather have a spouse who is a real partner than more money.

OP here - you make me feel seen. We have been at this a long time (DH is a young/new partner) and he wants to try and see if he will "make it" before he taps out. He makes good money (between $575-$775K depending on his bonuses) but it sure is A LOT of work for that money. There is no downtime or rest. Is it worth it? I don't know. He/we don't really have generational money to fall back on. We have 3 young kids and want to try and provide them with a cushion in life.

OMG poor little baby has to feed her kids dinner and do the laundry and walk the dog while her husband is off earning half a million a year.

What a tragic life.

I’m the PP who is also married to a law firm partner. It’s not tragic but it’s absolutely not the life I would have chosen if I knew what was coming when we got married, and it’s a life I think is bad for my husband even more than for myself. It is not at all uncommon for him to end up working 12-16 hours over a weekend, often with little notice, so he never wants to make plans in case we end up having to cancel them. We spend very little time together and a lot of it is him talking about how miserable he is. It is frustrating when someone makes this type of life choices and then, when very unsurprisingly it results in them being tired and run down, you are expected to fix that regardless of what you have going on.

I think all the time about how I would feel if he was a brain surgeon or some other type of doctor who was actively saving lives by working this hard and I feel like that would at least be better because maybe he would be more fulfilled and we would both feel like it’s more worth it? But he’s not, just making a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money. We try to save a lot and maybe we can retire early and help our kids so there will be some value there but it’s not a given at this point.

Sorry, but he can quit and find another job. I'm a lawyer and I did the kind of work he does with the hours and the pay and I decided that it wasn't good for me or my family. I'm a woman, not that it matters. But I quit and found another job with a much better schedule and yes, less pay. I get that the government isn't a great employer right now and many firms aren't expanding, but he had time to quit and do something else. Enjoy the money or be willing to give it up. It's really not that complicated.

Her DH isn’t suddenly going to become all domestic and step up with a 9-5 job. He’s going to take up triathlons or something. He is not going to be happy going from cushy office work that is well paid, to the working parent slog unpaid. He will want to relax, he “earned” it.

The best model for families is the breadwinner, SAHP, period. And I say this as a working parent who was all in on equitable parenting with my spouse, who both work 9-5 jobs with flexibility. The dual income household was a mistake.

I disagree. The dual-income model (both earning close to what the other does, both relatively high earners) works very well for us. We've been equals since the day our twins were born (they had to be formula fed so my husband fed them as much as I did) and we have been 50/50 on all things since then. (Obviously there are some things that one of us does 100% on, but with the kids we are half and half). I can't imagine only one of us working and only one of us doing most of the childcare. Our kids know that they have two equal parents to whom they can turn for anything. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

You both work FT? How does your day work? Who gets home and picks up kids, makes dinner, gets them to activities?

DP, but for my family DH and I both have remote / hybrid with short commute jobs (respectively) and flexible hours. We stagger schedules so one person handles mornings and the other handles after school. We are both involved somewhat in the early evening though to divide and conquer kids in different places, coaching teams, driving carpool, etc. We can catch up at night or weekends if needed.

Dinners are simple. Breakfast for dinner, taco night, spaghetti night, baked potato bar, etc. plus usually a night or two of takeout or leftovers. We have 3 kids involved in a lot of stuff so we only eat all together 1-2 times per week. The other nights we eat in shifts, but the kids often go to each other’s games and we do family movie nights, etc. so we still get in time together even if not at the dinner table each night.

Cleaning is outsourced. Laundry is on a schedule with kids increasingly involved as they get older. It can be exhausting at times, but has gotten a lot easier as the kids become older and more independent. They are even helpful at times now!

Oh if you both have mostly telework and flexible enough to have a short work day and then catch up at night, that can work. But hard to be sure to you will have that flexibility over the 15 years you need it. But basically you both effectively work part time if your days are that short; most FT workers also work after kids are in bed too.

We’ve had this set up since well before COVID and the kids are getting older now so things are easier than when they were little and we had to make daycare pickup. I know nothing is guaranteed and that not everyone can have this setup. Which is why I’d never say it’s the best or what everyone should do. I was just responding to the PP about how we make dual income work. I’ll we I am saddened by the shift with RTO (when it’s completely unnecessary to be in an office) because I think it’s bad for families and creates additional hurdles for women staying in the workforce.

Anyway, if I were in OP’s position though I’d be using some of the $$$ DH earns to outsource chores and get a part time sitter so I could have a break too. Consider it an expense that allows him to work that high paying job while keeping the marriage happy. Because resentment over him sleeping while sick with the flu does not bode well for the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH gets sick after he travels for work - seems to be pretty consistent. He flies out somewhere, works and stays up too late (especially when changing time zones) and then comes home and is sick.

Sometimes it’s just a minor cold and he can power through. This time though I think it’s the flu. I feel bad he is sick but I am also burned out from him being gone and now zero help at home while I hold down everything with the kids and home. He went to bed last night at 7pm and is still asleep.

I have only been sick one time in the 12 years of parenting enough to actually sleep and not take care of the kids.

This isn't a man cold. A man cold is a guy with the sniffles behaving like he's gonna die. Someone who sleeps for 13 hours straight is probably legitimately fighting a virus.

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Anonymous wrote:I feel you OP. My DH constantly complains of one ailment or another. He actually does a lot around the house and with DC and powers through (he knows I'll be unhappy if he doesn't do his share in general) but the constant sighing about how tired he is and how he has some random symptom gets exhausting and stressful for me. Yes, he has been to a doctor (after literally years of me begging him to), no issues there.

My husbands pain threshold is super super low.

He got lasic - it hurt and he demanded to return to the clinic as he was adamant something was very wrong. They talked him down over the phone. All was fine an hour later

He got his cavity-riddled wisdom teeth out at age 30, he called the oral surgeon daily about what to do for two weeks straight. Same advice- big sockets need to scab up.

Sadly when other people are hurting- our child broke her leg, he does nothing. She couldn’t walk after a bad fall at the trampoline park, he did nothing. I only got the truth the next day and zipped her to children’s national ER myself.

This is totally a thing with men. My husband had Covid and insisted he should go to the ER. I asked him if he was having trouble breathing, was vomiting or had a fever over 103. No, no, and no. He just didn't feel good. I asked what he thought they would tell him besides rest and drink fluids. He didn't know, he just knew that he was uncomfortable, and thought he shouldn't have to put up with it for a minute. Meanwhile he refused to take ibuprofen or acetaminophen.

You know how doctors have a minimize women's complaints?

Yeah, this isn't a good look for you, either. Who rolls their eyes at a loved one's discomfort? Were you born wrong or just raised badly?