Princeton to require test scores beginning in 2027

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree re Northwestern.

That's why the discussions by the bored tiger moms on here are so lame. They don't understand how revenue sports drive $$$ for BIG10, SEC or ACC. Not sure why (maybe they themselves didn't go to college in the US) - but a competitive sports program is a huge draw - especially today for socially extroverted kids who want a work hard, play hard atmosphere. Better than the Ivies (Princeton's problems with suicide), where the library is the social outlet.

Let schools do what they want. I'm quite okay if some schools come out and say they'll stay TO because it helps with athletic recruiting, and they want to invest in a true collegiate experience.

You make it sound like TR somehow makes it difficult to recruit, or there's no true collegiate experience in TR schools.

Np:

What top 25 schools that are test required have competitive power conference athletics?

No one is saying the athletes have to have a GOOD score if they go back to test required.

Do you think in the old days football players and basketball players had high SAT scores ? No, they did that. I’m sure most were under 1000. It’s fine. They can return to TR but have different standards for athletes of income generating sports.

[Anonymous]

Do we have so many athletes moms on this board? TO advocate is really tiring in 2025. Honey, TO or TR, your athletes sons are getting in. There is no need to hide his score. Have some integrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Schools used to let in athletes with lower scores in the old days before test optional. I don’t see why this would change now. They just don’t want to drop academic standards for the entire college just so athletes can apply without test scores.

Agree, but assume it would negatively impact the USNWR ranking for some of the true Div 1 teams mentioned. Don’t think they want to do that voluntarily?

It’s not a problem for Princeton. They aren’t ever making a bowl game. The SEC and Big10 revenue share opportunities are huge for schools like Vanderbilt and Northwestern! It’s why all those west coast teams joined Big10 last year.

With today’s funding gaps, these schools need to get more money from athletics - not less.

This is true for a very small subset of schools. But it seems to me that a lot of the naive comments here don’t understand the underlying economics of how a university is run. An elite school sure, but one with competitive programming in revenue sports doesn’t care that you want them to “only” use test scores. They want their athletes.

Agree with pp re Northwestern. I’m an alum. The news last week was shocking re Jayden. To get the basketball team Collin’s is putting together, definitely means no - not low - test scores. I’m also ok with that.

———-

Four-star recruit Jayden Hodge will commit to Northwestern, Hodge announced Monday afternoon on Instagram. The Belgium native will enter campus next fall as the highest-ranked NU men’s basketball recruit in the modern era, according to 247 Sports’ composite ranking.

“It was definitely a hard decision,” Hodge told The Daily. “But I felt confident and thought about it for a while, and I’m happy that I’ve made this decision.”

Hodge attracted significant buzz among recruiters because of his unique two-way playmaking abilities. In 2024, he led Belgium to a seventh-place finish in the FIBA U18 EuroBasket championship, averaging 15.9 points, 6.9 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game. Beyond his offensive firepower, Hodge was a defensive pest, averaging 1.7 steals per game and just under one block per game.

Following a recruiting cycle with three of NU’s highest recruits in program history — Tre Singleton, Jake West and Tyler Kropp — coach Chris Collins is showing no signs of slowing down.

When Hodge visited campus in June, he received a tour from longtime friend and South Florida transfer Jayden Reid, a former roommate and teammate of Hodge’s older brother, Matthew. Hodge said he was struck by the beautiful campus and the academic rigor. More than anything, he said he felt truly wanted by Collins and the entire program.“

So I get that athletes can contribute to the school community and I am fine with the fact that some people who contribute to the school greatly can slip in with lower credentials than average. However, for schools that care to have any academic prestige, there is also the rest of the university population which also needs to function. Such places will want to attract serious students, and attract faculty who want to teach advanced students. If some schools continue to ignore scholastic requirements for entry, they are not going to maintain their status in the long term, no matter how good their sports teams are. Things may have been different in previous years when there was less grade inflation and no ChatGPT to artificially inflate non-test credentials. But in today’s landscape you kind of need something else to help you pick out the brightest minds. Schools can ignore student achievement in the short run, but in the long run the reputation for lack of rigor will catch up with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only shit schools and shit students defend test optional at this point.

If you are applying test optional to any selective school, the immediate and correct inference should be that you don’t belong there.

Feel better? Geez.

You forgetting the fact they TO schools do this because they want the students that apply TO. They also want to pad their stats for folks like yourself that have a myopic view of student quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Schools used to let in athletes with lower scores in the old days before test optional. I don’t see why this would change now. They just don’t want to drop academic standards for the entire college just so athletes can apply without test scores.

Agree, but assume it would negatively impact the USNWR ranking for some of the true Div 1 teams mentioned. Don’t think they want to do that voluntarily?

It’s not a problem for Princeton. They aren’t ever making a bowl game. The SEC and Big10 revenue share opportunities are huge for schools like Vanderbilt and Northwestern! It’s why all those west coast teams joined Big10 last year.

With today’s funding gaps, these schools need to get more money from athletics - not less.

This is true for a very small subset of schools. But it seems to me that a lot of the naive comments here don’t understand the underlying economics of how a university is run. An elite school sure, but one with competitive programming in revenue sports doesn’t care that you want them to “only” use test scores. They want their athletes.

Agree with pp re Northwestern. I’m an alum. The news last week was shocking re Jayden. To get the basketball team Collin’s is putting together, definitely means no - not low - test scores. I’m also ok with that.

———-

Four-star recruit Jayden Hodge will commit to Northwestern, Hodge announced Monday afternoon on Instagram. The Belgium native will enter campus next fall as the highest-ranked NU men’s basketball recruit in the modern era, according to 247 Sports’ composite ranking.

“It was definitely a hard decision,” Hodge told The Daily. “But I felt confident and thought about it for a while, and I’m happy that I’ve made this decision.”

Hodge attracted significant buzz among recruiters because of his unique two-way playmaking abilities. In 2024, he led Belgium to a seventh-place finish in the FIBA U18 EuroBasket championship, averaging 15.9 points, 6.9 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game. Beyond his offensive firepower, Hodge was a defensive pest, averaging 1.7 steals per game and just under one block per game.

Following a recruiting cycle with three of NU’s highest recruits in program history — Tre Singleton, Jake West and Tyler Kropp — coach Chris Collins is showing no signs of slowing down.

When Hodge visited campus in June, he received a tour from longtime friend and South Florida transfer Jayden Reid, a former roommate and teammate of Hodge’s older brother, Matthew. Hodge said he was struck by the beautiful campus and the academic rigor. More than anything, he said he felt truly wanted by Collins and the entire program.“

So I get that athletes can contribute to the school community and I am fine with the fact that some people who contribute to the school greatly can slip in with lower credentials than average. However, for schools that care to have any academic prestige, there is also the rest of the university population which also needs to function. Such places will want to attract serious students, and attract faculty who want to teach advanced students. If some schools continue to ignore scholastic requirements for entry, they are not going to maintain their status in the long term, no matter how good their sports teams are. Things may have been different in previous years when there was less grade inflation and no ChatGPT to artificially inflate non-test credentials. But in today’s landscape you kind of need something else to help you pick out the brightest minds. Schools can ignore student achievement in the short run, but in the long run the reputation for lack of rigor will catch up with them.

I don’t think you understand what’s important to these schools. You think you know but don’t understand the budget.

Brightest minds?
lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we have so many athletes moms on this board? TO advocate is really tiring in 2025. Honey, TO or TR, your athletes sons are getting in. There is no need to hide his score. Have some integrity.

I posted earlier.

I don’t have an athlete. I have a kid at one of the still TO schools mentioned here (my kid submitted scores). They wanted a “rah rah” fun but top tier academic environment. Big sports and social culture. Turned down Ivies and higher ranked schools for it.

Don’t assume to know what makes a top school attractive for kids different than yours. Very happy there.

I’m glad the school can attract athletes who contribute to that energy. It changes a college completely, and leads to increased parent and alumni donations. Win-win for all.

It shouldn’t really matter to any of you anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:lower scores for a subset of admits like athletes and donors hardly moves the needle in medium and large schools. Princeton can easily handle a few dozen 1200s/1300s in a class of 1500 kids and still come out with impressive looking stats.

This is not as true for SLACs where half the admits are hooked in one way or another

The athletes at Vandy, Duke etc are 920-1000 at best. Not 1200/1300.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you all advise on submitting a 1490 to Princeton REA this year? Their mid 50 percentile starts at 1510 with test optional but was about 1470 pre test optional (back in 2020).

The college counselors at our school advise not submitting to test optional schools unless you are at or above their median score.

As a Princeton alum tho I can tell you that with that score, your child would need major other factors to overcome the gate keeping. The first gate is overall GPA adjusted for high school rigor and standardized test scores. With a 1490 your kid would not go past the first gate.

Keep in mind Princeton could fill their incoming class 3x over with kids with perfect GPAs and test scores. For kids with weaker GPAs and test scores, it takes exceptional talents or achievements for them to take a second look.

My kid has a 3.9 unweighted GPA, 1600 SATs, and is an alumni child with impressive ECs coming from a well-known, rigorous high school. Still no guarantee he’ll be admitted.

A couple decades ago when I was admitted, I had a 4.0, 1560 SAT, and much less impressive ECs. My fellow alums and I frequently acknowledge that many of us would not have been admitted today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lower scores for a subset of admits like athletes and donors hardly moves the needle in medium and large schools. Princeton can easily handle a few dozen 1200s/1300s in a class of 1500 kids and still come out with impressive looking stats.

This is not as true for SLACs where half the admits are hooked in one way or another

The athletes at Vandy, Duke etc are 920-1000 at best. Not 1200/1300.

Princeton can draw athletes from kids in the mid-1400+ range. They will not dip too low on grades and test scores because they don’t have to.

Classes are not adjusted in difficulty for athletes and the last few years, they’ve had problems with kids admitted under the test optional regime not being able to handle the work. Princeton does want an ongoing rise in attrition.

Significant donors can afford to tutor and prep their kids to decent grades and test scores.

[Anonymous]

makes sense.

more will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look the reality is that most of our kids and most of us parents hate taking and preparing for this one-day stressful test. But it does add value. I'm happy it's becoming the norm again to mandate testing.

The schools that will use test scores as one criteria for admission already did this for decades pre-covid. So this isn't some big ideological leap. Going TO temporarily was and I think it negatively impacted college admissions process and added to anxiety and hysteria.

If anything, going test required again will bring SAT scores back down to earth. It's really hard to get a combined SAT score north of 1500 so I'll be happy when scores in the 1400's become the new standard for top schools again.

Scor3s will continue to be high due to superscoring. The digital tests are shorter so easier for kids to take multiple times.

The current SAT is too easy. They need to bring back the old test where maybe 1 kid got over a 1500 at many high schools and there was far more differentiation at the top. 1400 was Ivy level, and even a score in the 1000s meant something. But the College Board has been at the forefront of the great failed social experiment in education.

You say it’s too easy, but my work gives me access to scores and you would not believe how low most of them are. Those who get above 1500 are rare. They are just concentrated in affluent school circles.

Agree. And the concentration has been growing. How many Americans think $1M homes are normal? Arlington and Bethesda used to be for more typical households.

I can remember my bus to Robert Frost stopping at a road with shack-looking houses. There were cattle grazing across the road from my newish-build Westleigh house in the early '80s.

We live somewhere else now and that Westleigh house is worth at least 3x my parents' current house value. For equal size.

That goes along with more NMSFs per school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Schools used to let in athletes with lower scores in the old days before test optional. I don’t see why this would change now. They just don’t want to drop academic standards for the entire college just so athletes can apply without test scores.

Agree, but assume it would negatively impact the USNWR ranking for some of the true Div 1 teams mentioned. Don’t think they want to do that voluntarily?

It’s not a problem for Princeton. They aren’t ever making a bowl game. The SEC and Big10 revenue share opportunities are huge for schools like Vanderbilt and Northwestern! It’s why all those west coast teams joined Big10 last year.

With today’s funding gaps, these schools need to get more money from athletics - not less.

This is true for a very small subset of schools. But it seems to me that a lot of the naive comments here don’t understand the underlying economics of how a university is run. An elite school sure, but one with competitive programming in revenue sports doesn’t care that you want them to “only” use test scores. They want their athletes.

Agree with pp re Northwestern. I’m an alum. The news last week was shocking re Jayden. To get the basketball team Collin’s is putting together, definitely means no - not low - test scores. I’m also ok with that.

———-

Four-star recruit Jayden Hodge will commit to Northwestern, Hodge announced Monday afternoon on Instagram. The Belgium native will enter campus next fall as the highest-ranked NU men’s basketball recruit in the modern era, according to 247 Sports’ composite ranking.

“It was definitely a hard decision,” Hodge told The Daily. “But I felt confident and thought about it for a while, and I’m happy that I’ve made this decision.”

Hodge attracted significant buzz among recruiters because of his unique two-way playmaking abilities. In 2024, he led Belgium to a seventh-place finish in the FIBA U18 EuroBasket championship, averaging 15.9 points, 6.9 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game. Beyond his offensive firepower, Hodge was a defensive pest, averaging 1.7 steals per game and just under one block per game.

Following a recruiting cycle with three of NU’s highest recruits in program history — Tre Singleton, Jake West and Tyler Kropp — coach Chris Collins is showing no signs of slowing down.

When Hodge visited campus in June, he received a tour from longtime friend and South Florida transfer Jayden Reid, a former roommate and teammate of Hodge’s older brother, Matthew. Hodge said he was struck by the beautiful campus and the academic rigor. More than anything, he said he felt truly wanted by Collins and the entire program.“

So I get that athletes can contribute to the school community and I am fine with the fact that some people who contribute to the school greatly can slip in with lower credentials than average. However, for schools that care to have any academic prestige, there is also the rest of the university population which also needs to function. Such places will want to attract serious students, and attract faculty who want to teach advanced students. If some schools continue to ignore scholastic requirements for entry, they are not going to maintain their status in the long term, no matter how good their sports teams are. Things may have been different in previous years when there was less grade inflation and no ChatGPT to artificially inflate non-test credentials. But in today’s landscape you kind of need something else to help you pick out the brightest minds. Schools can ignore student achievement in the short run, but in the long run the reputation for lack of rigor will catch up with them.

I don’t think you understand what’s important to these schools. You think you know but don’t understand the budget.

Brightest minds?
lol

This is only in reference to top schools that want to keep academic cred. Fine if they want to be known for sports only, stay TO and be known as jock central.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lower scores for a subset of admits like athletes and donors hardly moves the needle in medium and large schools. Princeton can easily handle a few dozen 1200s/1300s in a class of 1500 kids and still come out with impressive looking stats.

This is not as true for SLACs where half the admits are hooked in one way or another

The athletes at Vandy, Duke etc are 920-1000 at best. Not 1200/1300.

Princeton can draw athletes from kids in the mid-1400+ range. They will not dip too low on grades and test scores because they don’t have to.

Classes are not adjusted in difficulty for athletes and the last few years, they’ve had problems with kids admitted under the test optional regime not being able to handle the work. Princeton does want an ongoing rise in attrition.

Significant donors can afford to tutor and prep their kids to decent grades and test scores.

We don’t care about Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Princeton finally changing, he only Test Optional schools left in the T10/ivy group:

Northwestern
Columbia
Duke

Makes those three look pretty desperate for apps.

I predict Duke and NU change to required next. Columbia has too many other issues that risk matriculation of true ivy quality kids; they will wait until 2029 or later and will exempt GS applicants

I know NU won't right now. They have pressure for revenue sports recruiting and are now getting basketball players they would have NEVER gotten before. One was announced last week and its a GIANT coup.

Duke is quite happy as well given their carolinas commitment. Scores are signficantly lower there and they don't want to bring down the averages.
I'd assume Vanderbilt is VERY happy with their football team right now.

Schools with real sports shouldn't have to have scores for recruited athletes. Winning teams transform and complete a college experience.

Agree with this.

For the first time in the modern era, Vanderbilt has a competitive nationally ranked football team in the SEC. Their quarterback is a Heisman contender!!!

It happened in the test optional era only. Why do we think that is?

Some of the comments in this thread are laughable. People have no idea how T25 schools use test optional. It helps them fulfill their institutional priorities. It is never an institutional priority to just have more high stats kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you all advise on submitting a 1490 to Princeton REA this year? Their mid 50 percentile starts at 1510 with test optional but was about 1470 pre test optional (back in 2020).

The college counselors at our school advise not submitting to test optional schools unless you are at or above their median score.

As a Princeton alum tho I can tell you that with that score, your child would need major other factors to overcome the gate keeping. The first gate is overall GPA adjusted for high school rigor and standardized test scores. With a 1490 your kid would not go past the first gate.

Keep in mind Princeton could fill their incoming class 3x over with kids with perfect GPAs and test scores. For kids with weaker GPAs and test scores, it takes exceptional talents or achievements for them to take a second look.

My kid has a 3.9 unweighted GPA, 1600 SATs, and is an alumni child with impressive ECs coming from a well-known, rigorous high school. Still no guarantee he’ll be admitted.

A couple decades ago when I was admitted, I had a 4.0, 1560 SAT, and much less impressive ECs. My fellow alums and I frequently acknowledge that many of us would not have been admitted today.

Eh, I don't think a 1490 would keep a kid out if they had extraordinary ECs (national level awards) or fit an institutional priority (FGLI, donor, child of someone very famous). And unless the kid has one of those hooks, they wouldn't get into Princeton with a 1590 either.

If kid does have an extraordinary hook, I'd say submit the 1490. DC's friend (with national literary award) was accepted with a 1500. If you don't submit, I think AOs assume a score much lower than 1490, and that might hurt you.