Nannies want to bring their kid to work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some of what you say is off base in my experience, so I suspect you haven't actually done it, correct?
Although in the end it's up to the nanny and the parents (not us) to determine what works for them.

Which specific items do you think are "off base" from your experience?

It doesn't matter because the point is that one size does not fit all. If we list some specifics to consider, that's perfectly fair. But to present a long list of "have to's" leads me to think that you've never done it.

True?

You may want to think that you know what you're talking about, but unless you've done it, you don't. You can only imagine. Maybe you didn't mean to come off that way.

Well...the specific points do matter, I think? What I listed above would be my expectations if I were hiring a NWOC or if I wanted to be a NWOC. If you found a nanny who refused to provide her own gear or who demanded her child get nap time priority, then you'd 1) be correct in saying it would be more like a share and you'd be due for a bigger discount and 2) be correct in saying it wasn't likely to work out. Of course it comes down to families, nannies, and the perfect fit, but I do think baseline expectations are fair and these are the ones I personally believe are non-negotiable. Otherwise, yeah, it isn't likely to work out.

I have not worked as a NWOC, but (as I am tired of saying in so many threads, as I'm sure some of you are tired of reading) I grew up in the UK, with nannies, one of whom brought her own child. These were the expectations my parents held her to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some of what you say is off base in my experience, so I suspect you haven't actually done it, correct?
Although in the end it's up to the nanny and the parents (not us) to determine what works for them.

Which specific items do you think are "off base" from your experience?

It doesn't matter because the point is that one size does not fit all. If we list some specifics to consider, that's perfectly fair. But to present a long list of "have to's" leads me to think that you've never done it.

True?

You may want to think that you know what you're talking about, but unless you've done it, you don't. You can only imagine. Maybe you didn't mean to come off that way.

Well...the specific points do matter, I think? What I listed above would be my expectations if I were hiring a NWOC or if I wanted to be a NWOC. If you found a nanny who refused to provide her own gear or who demanded her child get nap time priority, then you'd 1) be correct in saying it would be more like a share and you'd be due for a bigger discount and 2) be correct in saying it wasn't likely to work out. Of course it comes down to families, nannies, and the perfect fit, but I do think baseline expectations are fair and these are the ones I personally believe are non-negotiable. Otherwise, yeah, it isn't likely to work out.

I have not worked as a NWOC, but (as I am tired of saying in so many threads, as I'm sure some of you are tired of reading) I grew up in the UK, with nannies, one of whom brought her own child. These were the expectations my parents held her to.

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some of what you say is off base in my experience, so I suspect you haven't actually done it, correct?
Although in the end it's up to the nanny and the parents (not us) to determine what works for them.

Which specific items do you think are "off base" from your experience?

It doesn't matter because the point is that one size does not fit all. If we list some specifics to consider, that's perfectly fair. But to present a long list of "have to's" leads me to think that you've never done it.

True?

You may want to think that you know what you're talking about, but unless you've done it, you don't. You can only imagine. Maybe you didn't mean to come off that way.

Well...the specific points do matter, I think? What I listed above would be my expectations if I were hiring a NWOC or if I wanted to be a NWOC. If you found a nanny who refused to provide her own gear or who demanded her child get nap time priority, then you'd 1) be correct in saying it would be more like a share and you'd be due for a bigger discount and 2) be correct in saying it wasn't likely to work out. Of course it comes down to families, nannies, and the perfect fit, but I do think baseline expectations are fair and these are the ones I personally believe are non-negotiable. Otherwise, yeah, it isn't likely to work out.

I have not worked as a NWOC, but (as I am tired of saying in so many threads, as I'm sure some of you are tired of reading) I grew up in the UK, with nannies, one of whom brought her own child. These were the expectations my parents held her to.

Actually, I'm not tired of reading YOUR posts as they are invariably well-reasoned and you don't waive around your employers' titles as a badge.

Just a note to say that parent partners in shares do provide their own gear (who else would provide it then? the host family isn't expected to provide two of everything, now are they). Also, share kids tend to (not always, but commonly) are very close in age, so the topic of who gets to nap first usually doesn't come up as both kids are on the same schedule. And in fact, both of experienced nannies in shares I've been in got kids on the same routine in a matter of days as their first priority. If you have an infant and a toddler, that's different, but shares usually (not always) would have two infants OR two toddlers. It's uncommon to have two kids with wild variation in ages in one share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you arrive at the 15-25% deduction for bring your child, PP? Why should it not be 50% as in a normal nanny share? Especially since MB is functioning as a host family in a share?

Look, anyone can charge whatever they want. They will either eventually have an attractive offer within a "reasonable" time period, or not. Some may then choose to reconsider their fees, and some may decide to opt for something else altogether.

Stop trying to nail down your personal views on what every nanny is allowed to charge. You are just mad that some parents can afford higher priced nannies, and you can't or won't.

Look, if anyone could charge whatever they wanted to, this forum would not exist. No one would ask questions about rates or their underpinnings. Every conversation would unfold like this:

- Why do you charge $X an hour?
- Because I wanna.

There is either a rhyme and reason to what nannies charge, or there isn't. If there isn't, then credentials, experience and skills of different nannies do not matter, because the only factor that determines the rate is the consent of the parties. Nothing else matters.

It's silly to trot out jealousy as an explanation. You might as well say that nannies are jealous of their employers because they make more money. Or some other silly thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thanks NP PP!

First, I do know I make more than average nannies - which is why in my first post I said those rates might actually not be OTT for those particular candidates even thought just seeing them on paper without other information they seem remarkably high for a NWOC - and why I tried to break down how a nanny might legitimately be "worth" $15-17/hr even with her own child.

And PP is correct about the difference between a share and a NWOC. The nanny is still an employee and her charges, her employer's children, get first priority for activities, schedules, and other needs. So if nanny's child doesn't want to go to the pool but her charges do? Too bad, kiddo, that's where we're going. Nanny's child needs a nap but it's time for the charge's music class? Everyone's going to music! The nanny and her child will both be expected to abide by the household rules of her employer and defer to their preferences regarding discipline, diet, toys, etc. So if the family wants only wooden toys around their kids, nanny's child will leave his plastic action figures at home to play with another time. Does that make sense? A share is 50-50 (cost and priority) because both sets of parents are the employers; it's a different scenario entirely with a NWOC. (In the UK, a NWOC typically takes a 10% pay cut fwiw.) Additionally, a NWOC should provide her own car seats, portable high chair, sleeping cot (if applicable), child's food, and child's toys and to remove them ALL at the end of every day - whereas a hosting share family will have to live with two of everything taking up space in their house.

I understand what you're trying to say, but you must see that it cannot possibly apply to all nanny-child duos. For starters, your argument requires that a nanny's child is of an age when she/he can be a) reasoned with, and b) fairly independent. Why? Well, say, your 6-year old charge has pool time, and your infant (or toddler, or 2-year old) doesn't. What are you going to do with your infant/toddler child when you are in the pool with your 6-year old charge? You aren't going to leave your infant child strapped into a carseat in the corner of the pool (I assume), and you can't very well expect a toddler to sit still for an hour of swim practice.

Say your infant/toddler is due for a nap, but your older charge doesn't nap. You can't very well tell an infant or a toddler on the verge of a meltdown to just buckle up and ride through it. It's not like they can hold off napping just because you really, really want them to. Kids have needs that aren't negotiable, and this doesn't change whether their parents are nannies or not. Do you see what I'm trying to say? In order not to compromise well-being of either child, certain conditions must be in place. It can't work for all nannies with all children. I've outlined two scenarios where their needs might be in conflict and I'm sure there are others, and if you are as experienced as you say you are, I'm sure you can see them too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Just a note to say that parent partners in shares do provide their own gear (who else would provide it then? the host family isn't expected to provide two of everything, now are they). Also, share kids tend to (not always, but commonly) are very close in age, so the topic of who gets to nap first usually doesn't come up as both kids are on the same schedule. And in fact, both of experienced nannies in shares I've been in got kids on the same routine in a matter of days as their first priority. If you have an infant and a toddler, that's different, but shares usually (not always) would have two infants OR two toddlers. It's uncommon to have two kids with wild variation in ages in one share.

Oh yes, sorry. Of course the parents of the non-hosting half would provide the food, high chair, cot etc. for their child (although I do think there is often a cost-sharing approach to double strollers isn't there?), the only difference being that they are typically allowed to leave them behind whereas a NWOC should leave her employer's house looking like no other child has been there. And you're right about ages too, I think from my experience parents who hire a NWOC look for one whose child is close in age to their own as well, but just like twins don't always share a nap schedule, inevitably someone will need to take priority. It may not be right away, but say you get to 15 months and one child is ready to drop down to one nap per day, while the other is still taking two. In a share, you'd expect the nanny to stay home to allow the sleepy child to rest while she entertains the other, and to fit their outings in between the two naps. With a NWOC, in my opinion, you'd expect her to have her child nap in a stroller or a carrier so that her employer's child could begin having more activities and outings in his or her day. I'm sure in some caregiving situations this issue never (or at least very rarely) arises, but I think the way both parties view the situation is almost as important as what actually needs to be done. So for example, if the nanny believes her child should get priority, that's an approach that is likely to cause problems elsewhere, even if the naps are completely coordinated, iyswim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I understand what you're trying to say, but you must see that it cannot possibly apply to all nanny-child duos. For starters, your argument requires that a nanny's child is of an age when she/he can be a) reasoned with, and b) fairly independent. Why? Well, say, your 6-year old charge has pool time, and your infant (or toddler, or 2-year old) doesn't. What are you going to do with your infant/toddler child when you are in the pool with your 6-year old charge? You aren't going to leave your infant child strapped into a carseat in the corner of the pool (I assume), and you can't very well expect a toddler to sit still for an hour of swim practice.

Say your infant/toddler is due for a nap, but your older charge doesn't nap. You can't very well tell an infant or a toddler on the verge of a meltdown to just buckle up and ride through it. It's not like they can hold off napping just because you really, really want them to. Kids have needs that aren't negotiable, and this doesn't change whether their parents are nannies or not. Do you see what I'm trying to say? In order not to compromise well-being of either child, certain conditions must be in place. It can't work for all nannies with all children. I've outlined two scenarios where their needs might be in conflict and I'm sure there are others, and if you are as experienced as you say you are, I'm sure you can see them too.

Absolutely it doesn't apply to everyone! Which is why hiring a nanny with her own child isn't going to work for everyone.

But for your specific points, we do have creative solutions, and I don't think they need to be old enough to reason with (lord knows that can be a long wait). In the case of needing to swim, both children would go in (nanny would pay for her child to use the pool at the same time) or the 6yo would be scheduled to have lessons with an instructor where the nanny would sit out of the water entertaining her child. (And it really is a terrible idea to set up a share or hire a NWOC if the kids are that far apart in ages!) Or if the way those swim classes are set up means the nanny must be in the water and her child cannot be, then it isn't a good fit and the family should hire someone without their own child. As far as napping, kids whose moms nanny are taught early to sleep on the move - in a carrier, in a stroller, even in a backpack.

But of course, we completely agree here - it isn't the right solution for everyone and there will always be more issues to iron out than with an independent nanny. But they aren't insurmountable in those situations where the NWOC is the best fit for the family and they want to make it work. What I was sharing were simply baseline expectations, without a doubt there will be specifics in every situation that will need to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.

I don't even know what to say to you any more, PP, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.

I don't even know what to say to you any more, PP, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

Hint: Every time you have nothing to say, please go do something else more productive with your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.

I don't even know what to say to you any more, PP, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

Hint: Every time you have nothing to say, please go do something else more productive with your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.

I don't even know what to say to you any more, PP, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

Hint: Every time you have nothing to say, please go do something else more productive with your time.

Sweet dreams to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I understand what you're trying to say, but you must see that it cannot possibly apply to all nanny-child duos. For starters, your argument requires that a nanny's child is of an age when she/he can be a) reasoned with, and b) fairly independent. Why? Well, say, your 6-year old charge has pool time, and your infant (or toddler, or 2-year old) doesn't. What are you going to do with your infant/toddler child when you are in the pool with your 6-year old charge? You aren't going to leave your infant child strapped into a carseat in the corner of the pool (I assume), and you can't very well expect a toddler to sit still for an hour of swim practice.

Say your infant/toddler is due for a nap, but your older charge doesn't nap. You can't very well tell an infant or a toddler on the verge of a meltdown to just buckle up and ride through it. It's not like they can hold off napping just because you really, really want them to. Kids have needs that aren't negotiable, and this doesn't change whether their parents are nannies or not. Do you see what I'm trying to say? In order not to compromise well-being of either child, certain conditions must be in place. It can't work for all nannies with all children. I've outlined two scenarios where their needs might be in conflict and I'm sure there are others, and if you are as experienced as you say you are, I'm sure you can see them too.

Absolutely it doesn't apply to everyone! Which is why hiring a nanny with her own child isn't going to work for everyone.

But for your specific points, we do have creative solutions, and I don't think they need to be old enough to reason with (lord knows that can be a long wait). In the case of needing to swim, both children would go in (nanny would pay for her child to use the pool at the same time) or the 6yo would be scheduled to have lessons with an instructor where the nanny would sit out of the water entertaining her child. (And it really is a terrible idea to set up a share or hire a NWOC if the kids are that far apart in ages!) Or if the way those swim classes are set up means the nanny must be in the water and her child cannot be, then it isn't a good fit and the family should hire someone without their own child. As far as napping, kids whose moms nanny are taught early to sleep on the move - in a carrier, in a stroller, even in a backpack.

But of course, we completely agree here - it isn't the right solution for everyone and there will always be more issues to iron out than with an independent nanny. But they aren't insurmountable in those situations where the NWOC is the best fit for the family and they want to make it work. What I was sharing were simply baseline expectations, without a doubt there will be specifics in every situation that will need to be addressed.

You are just so..sensible! I really liked both of your responses. I agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.

I don't even know what to say to you any more, PP, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:back to the original question. No. it never works out well. Your kid doesn't get proper supervision. nanny's kid is bat out of hell or brings in strep throat or lice (No stereotypes going on here - just the facts - any exposure to any kid means more germs). Same with housekeeper - brought her daughter one day. No work got done because we were all running after the toddler who was into everything. Stuff got broken, stolen. That didn't happen again.

The hell cited above is a clear indication of the overall poor quality of "help" that many people hire. Personally, I can hardly even imagine my housekeeper having a child so badly behaved as described.

[Anonymous]

Interesting. The families here that I've worked with, consider me as an equal. They ask my opinions/recommendations on a daily basis. One of them told me I should be a parenting coach, not a nanny. Another one told me I was better than her therapist. This mom had some postpartum depression symptoms, so I asked if she'd like to talk with a professional who specializes in that. The mom said yes and loved it. So yes, I am a walking talking encyclopedia of all things related to early childhood development and parenting.

Btw, I enjoy picking parents with interesting careers. I like picking their brains to. The professional respect is mutual.


I don't even know what to say to you any more, PP, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

She just likes to hear herself talk about how great she thinks she is.