When does the work day end?

[Anonymous]

We are considering getting an au pair. In the past with a live-in nanny we said that when the parents took over childcare duties her workday was finished, so even if she was still with us having a meal and helping to clean up after, this was part of being a member of the household, not part of her job. This means that she didn't have to eat with us if she didn't want to, e.g. if we took over at 6:00 she could take off for the evening or stay and have dinner with us, though when we offered her the job we did say that we preferred her to have weekday dinners with the family. We were lucky in that we had a great relationship with her and she had dinner with us Mon-Thurs nights and was super helpful with prep/clean-up. We once tried another live-in and it was difficult as she would suddenly decide that she didn't want dinner at the last moment, which was confusing for the kids plus we would be left with a lot of left-overs despite our careful planning. I'd be interested to know how families handle this with an au pair/what the usual arrangement is. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

The way you handle it is to be open with the au pair/nanny and ask what her preferences might be. I do think, however, you should expect a dependable routine with dinner time.

[Anonymous]

Personally I wouldn't have dinner, because after a long day I don't want to clean up after the entire family.

[Anonymous]

In our case, our kids are in school all day so if we ended her work day when a parent came home, we would be using her about 25 hours per week tops during the school year. While some folks have no heartburn doing that, I don't want to feel like as soon as I get home from a long day at work she is shoving the kids at me to run to her room and skype. It also leaves it open that she eats with you but never actually pitches in to help more than putting her own plate in the dishwasher. So we schedule her to be on duty until 7pm most days during the school year. Tha way she is is working only around 30-35 hours per week, plus we feel free to ask her to either help with meal prep or keep the kids entertained while I do it. I also make it clear that whoever cooks doesn't have to clean up, the other 2 adults put away the leftovers and hand wash whatever needs it (occ pot or dishwasher overflow) In the summer, we are already using every minute of her hours since she has the kids all day. I still expect some help with meal prep and clean up if she's eating (set the table or put a salad together) but she's not on duty and if she chooses to skip dinner, so be it.

We give her a written schedule at least a couple weeks in advance so we all know exactly what time she is free to hide in her room or head out on the town with her friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In our case, our kids are in school all day so if we ended her work day when a parent came home, we would be using her about 25 hours per week tops during the school year. While some folks have no heartburn doing that, I don't want to feel like as soon as I get home from a long day at work she is shoving the kids at me to run to her room and skype. It also leaves it open that she eats with you but never actually pitches in to help more than putting her own plate in the dishwasher. So we schedule her to be on duty until 7pm most days during the school year. Tha way she is is working only around 30-35 hours per week, plus we feel free to ask her to either help with meal prep or keep the kids entertained while I do it. I also make it clear that whoever cooks doesn't have to clean up, the other 2 adults put away the leftovers and hand wash whatever needs it (occ pot or dishwasher overflow) In the summer, we are already using every minute of her hours since she has the kids all day. I still expect some help with meal prep and clean up if she's eating (set the table or put a salad together) but she's not on duty and if she chooses to skip dinner, so be it.

We give her a written schedule at least a couple weeks in advance so we all know exactly what time she is free to hide in her room or head out on the town with her friends.

Do you see the irony here? You'd begrudge someone expecting you to be responsible for your own children when you get home?

[Anonymous]

Why would an AP or nanny want to have dinner with you when it is obvious that all you want is a maid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would an AP or nanny want to have dinner with you when it is obvious that all you want is a maid.

I am the OP, and I understand why the PP has said this. However, I think in general au pairs are meant to be a part of the family and indeed would be unhappy to be left out of family meals (e.g. you go sit in the kitchen and have dinner apart from the family/figure out your own meals). Certainly our live-in nanny previously would not have been happy with not being included, and we were so incredibly lucky that in addition she went out of her way to help with meal prep and clean-up, to the point that we sometimes had to ask her *not* to clean up as we felt guilty, and luckily she took us at our word and would stop and make sure to have more time for herself. We frequently gave her bonuses and tried to be thoughtful in general as she was so amazing.

While it is certainly great to have some extra help at mealtimes, there is a lot more to it than that. We found with our live-in nanny it was just nice to all have a meal together and the kids loved it. My daughter is almost 6 and although she has had fantastic live-out nannies for the last two or so years she is super excited to have someone live in again as it feels like having a bigger family. And if a nanny or anyone else is having dinner with the family on a regular basis then a bit of help with prep and clean up does seem appropriate. Plus if that is the understanding from the start then I don't see why it should be a problem.

Thanks so much for all the feedback so far!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would an AP or nanny want to have dinner with you when it is obvious that all you want is a maid.

OP here again - I also meant to say, that if we really thought our au pair/nanny was a maid, we certainly wouldn't have her sit down to meals with us like a member of the family. My mother was an au pair when she was in her early 20's and I just found out today that she prepared the family meals, ate separately on her own in the kitchen, and then cleaned up after the family. I was shocked as it would never even occur to me to treat an au pair like this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, our kids are in school all day so if we ended her work day when a parent came home, we would be using her about 25 hours per week tops during the school year. While some folks have no heartburn doing that, I don't want to feel like as soon as I get home from a long day at work she is shoving the kids at me to run to her room and skype. It also leaves it open that she eats with you but never actually pitches in to help more than putting her own plate in the dishwasher. So we schedule her to be on duty until 7pm most days during the school year. Tha way she is is working only around 30-35 hours per week, plus we feel free to ask her to either help with meal prep or keep the kids entertained while I do it. I also make it clear that whoever cooks doesn't have to clean up, the other 2 adults put away the leftovers and hand wash whatever needs it (occ pot or dishwasher overflow) In the summer, we are already using every minute of her hours since she has the kids all day. I still expect some help with meal prep and clean up if she's eating (set the table or put a salad together) but she's not on duty and if she chooses to skip dinner, so be it.

We give her a written schedule at least a couple weeks in advance so we all know exactly what time she is free to hide in her room or head out on the town with her friends.

Do you see the irony here? You'd begrudge someone expecting you to be responsible for your own children when you get home?

No,I expect that if I'm paying someone for 45 hours of work each week that I should be free to use those 45 hours to make life more manageable. So having an additional adult around to either cook while I play with my kids, or to distract the kids so that I can get food on the table is one of the reasons that we even have an Au Pair. And I think the fair way to handle that is to build those hours clearly into her schedule so that there is no question as to when she is working and when she is off. And really, if you were paying for a pedicure, would you expect the nail technician to hand you the polish brush halfway through - after all, they are your nails and you're perfectly capable of painting them yourself!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would an AP or nanny want to have dinner with you when it is obvious that all you want is a maid.

OP here again - I also meant to say, that if we really thought our au pair/nanny was a maid, we certainly wouldn't have her sit down to meals with us like a member of the family. My mother was an au pair when she was in her early 20's and I just found out today that she prepared the family meals, ate separately on her own in the kitchen, and then cleaned up after the family. I was shocked as it would never even occur to me to treat an au pair like this!

Why wouldn't you have a maid sit down to meals with you like a member of the family? Why is a maid not good enough to eat with you? I don't get it. It is a job the person does, not who they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, our kids are in school all day so if we ended her work day when a parent came home, we would be using her about 25 hours per week tops during the school year. While some folks have no heartburn doing that, I don't want to feel like as soon as I get home from a long day at work she is shoving the kids at me to run to her room and skype. It also leaves it open that she eats with you but never actually pitches in to help more than putting her own plate in the dishwasher. So we schedule her to be on duty until 7pm most days during the school year. Tha way she is is working only around 30-35 hours per week, plus we feel free to ask her to either help with meal prep or keep the kids entertained while I do it. I also make it clear that whoever cooks doesn't have to clean up, the other 2 adults put away the leftovers and hand wash whatever needs it (occ pot or dishwasher overflow) In the summer, we are already using every minute of her hours since she has the kids all day. I still expect some help with meal prep and clean up if she's eating (set the table or put a salad together) but she's not on duty and if she chooses to skip dinner, so be it.

We give her a written schedule at least a couple weeks in advance so we all know exactly what time she is free to hide in her room or head out on the town with her friends.

Do you see the irony here? You'd begrudge someone expecting you to be responsible for your own children when you get home?

No,I expect that if I'm paying someone for 45 hours of work each week that I should be free to use those 45 hours to make life more manageable. So having an additional adult around to either cook while I play with my kids, or to distract the kids so that I can get food on the table is one of the reasons that we even have an Au Pair. And I think the fair way to handle that is to build those hours clearly into her schedule so that there is no question as to when she is working and when she is off. And really, if you were paying for a pedicure, would you expect the nail technician to hand you the polish brush halfway through - after all, they are your nails and you're perfectly capable of painting them yourself!

I see where you are coming from and take no issue with it IF its paid time while she is watching the kids as you prep dinner. I got the impression from OPs post that she expects the time clock to go off when she walks in the door, but also has the expectation that AP "help" in the evening, thinly veiled as being a member of the family. It sounds like OP would not be happy if her AP didn't regularly stay to hang out and help in the evenings, even though she intends for that time to be off the clock. Your post sounded as though you think this is a completely reasonable request, the difference being that you would be paying her while OP wouldn't. I think that if your AP voluntarily has week night dinners with you, she should by all means help out. What I think is messed up is the host family having the expectation that she have dinner and help out, while simultaneously being off the clock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our case, our kids are in school all day so if we ended her work day when a parent came home, we would be using her about 25 hours per week tops during the school year. While some folks have no heartburn doing that, I don't want to feel like as soon as I get home from a long day at work she is shoving the kids at me to run to her room and skype. It also leaves it open that she eats with you but never actually pitches in to help more than putting her own plate in the dishwasher. So we schedule her to be on duty until 7pm most days during the school year. Tha way she is is working only around 30-35 hours per week, plus we feel free to ask her to either help with meal prep or keep the kids entertained while I do it. I also make it clear that whoever cooks doesn't have to clean up, the other 2 adults put away the leftovers and hand wash whatever needs it (occ pot or dishwasher overflow) In the summer, we are already using every minute of her hours since she has the kids all day. I still expect some help with meal prep and clean up if she's eating (set the table or put a salad together) but she's not on duty and if she chooses to skip dinner, so be it.

We give her a written schedule at least a couple weeks in advance so we all know exactly what time she is free to hide in her room or head out on the town with her friends.

Do you see the irony here? You'd begrudge someone expecting you to be responsible for your own children when you get home?

No,I expect that if I'm paying someone for 45 hours of work each week that I should be free to use those 45 hours to make life more manageable. So having an additional adult around to either cook while I play with my kids, or to distract the kids so that I can get food on the table is one of the reasons that we even have an Au Pair. And I think the fair way to handle that is to build those hours clearly into her schedule so that there is no question as to when she is working and when she is off. And really, if you were paying for a pedicure, would you expect the nail technician to hand you the polish brush halfway through - after all, they are your nails and you're perfectly capable of painting them yourself!

I see where you are coming from and take no issue with it IF its paid time while she is watching the kids as you prep dinner. I got the impression from OPs post that she expects the time clock to go off when she walks in the door, but also has the expectation that AP "help" in the evening, thinly veiled as being a member of the family. It sounds like OP would not be happy if her AP didn't regularly stay to hang out and help in the evenings, even though she intends for that time to be off the clock. Your post sounded as though you think this is a completely reasonable request, the difference being that you would be paying her while OP wouldn't. I think that if your AP voluntarily has week night dinners with you, she should by all means help out. What I think is messed up is the host family having the expectation that she have dinner and help out, while simultaneously being off the clock.

I didn't get the sense that this was the OP's expectation at all. I got the sense that she was just asking if folks with au pairs have similar relationships as her family did with their live-in nanny: if the AP/nanny joins the family for a meal, which the OP and her family enjoy, then the AP helps out with the meal prep or clean up the same as any other participant in a family meal would. The other responder who puts her AP on the clock through meal-time does it because she wants to be able to ask more than this of her AP during this time, e.g. actively help out with the kids while she preps the meal. AND she has extra hours from her AP's 45 hours to use, and she chooses to use them in this way. It sounds like this responder's AP has one of the more "cushy" AP schedules - even WITH being on duty through dinner while the parents are home, the AP is only on duty at most 35 hours per week, when she could be asked to work up to 45.

[Anonymous]

Au Psir = indentured servitude. Lazy American women who vannot take care of their children and cook/ clean up. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

When I was an AP in the 90s I loathed eating dinner with my host family because it meant cleaning up after all of them and I was *tired* - physically and of being around the obnoxious members of the family (3/5). I'd have been much happier eating a sandwich in my room, washing my plate, and having a few minutes of peace at the end of a long day, but they required it under similar pretenses of "planning" the meal (as if I couldn't have eaten all of those leftovers for lunch the following day?) and "participating" in family life. BS. They just wanted me to handle the dishes afterwards.

[Anonymous]

For the APs out there who don't want to eat with their families:

I suppose you live in large houses with multiple kitchens? or regularly skip dinner if given the choice? or want to spend your $ on going out to eat?

Our house is too small to provide for AP preparing a separate meal just for herself to eat separately if she's not going to eat with the family. Surely, we're not alone! We have a galley (not eat-in) kitchen. Who are all these APs who eat separately?

OP, one word of advice: I schedule our AP (who has a similar schedule) so that her work time ends around the time when we sit down for dinner (which is up to 1 hr after we get home from work). One thing we have her do is supervise baths/showers before dinner (often after we get home and while we prepare dinner). That makes our evenings (post-dinner) more relaxing/enjoyable. Our AP is not "required" to eat with us but both of our APs have. Their alternatives are waiting until the kitchen is free (8pm) or going out (spending own $). If our AP has plans to leave earlier than scheduled work time on a night (often the case on Friday), that way she recognizes that she needs to ask/let us know.

Also, OP, in my experience, you should expend to contend with the AP cancelling on dinner (especially on the weekend) at the last minute. APs tend not to make plans far in advance, and it's pretty common for them to text you at 5pm on a Sunday to say they won't be home for dinner. This is sometimes annoying (particularly if you are preparing something expensive and perishable like fresh fish) but I figure it's important for the AP's happiness/wellbeing that she's out and about with her friends, so I don't complain about this.