Looks like a new Gaza war has started

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


Now y’all want mercy? (NP)


No, we want Israel to not indiscriminately kill civilians in Gaza. Why do you think this is permissible?


They are not indiscriminately killing civilians.
As you know by now, Hamas operates from civilian locations. In order to take out these brutal terrorists, some civilians are going to perish as well. Such as this attack:



Wouldn't it be nice if Hamas followed the rules of war and didn't imbed themselves in civilian locations?


The idiots think that there are cartoon missiles that have faces and know exactly who to attack
Anonymous
I desperately don’t want Israeli boots on the ground and I desperately wish so many Palestinian civilians wouldn’t die. And I also wish Hamas would stop bombing Israel. I don’t know how to solve this.
Anonymous
jsteele wrote:Israel appears to have committed an atrocity by bombing a hospital in Gaza:



I guess they wanted to just kill Palestinians, just like the paratroopers at the music festival
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the worst thing that could happen is for Israel to loose the support of American Jews.
Bombing a school where refugees were told to gather and that had 4000 people


Evangelicals support Israel almost in spite of the Jews. Hawks in both parties support it because they are a traditional ally and are fighting terrorists. I don't think Israel actually needs American Jews to support them


Evangelical voters are about 23% of the electorate but are very important in the Bible Belt. Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia and Virginia with sizable parts of: Florida, Louisiana, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, New Mexico, Ohio and Texas.

The Jewish vote at most is 9% in New York and 6% in New Jersey. After that there are a few regional or really cities where Jewish vote impact local and maybe a congressional seat.

The Jewish vote by itself just does not have the numbers behind it to impact US national elections.

Perhaps you are confusing the Jewish vote with the influence of aipac?
No politician has been successful without pledge of allegiance to what at the time pleases aipac


I am not confused at all. The Jewish vote is not important to national elections. Evangelical voters do not care about Jews. Israel is of great interest in evangelicals circles but not the reason some Jews support it. AIPAC is about Israel and money that buy’s influence not about Jewish voters. You do not have to look hard to see Israel(as in the state of Israel) active support of AIPAC.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands


This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.


OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.


Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.


Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?


Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.


Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government


Not if Biden wants to win. No chance in hell would I vote for him if there's American boots on the ground in Israel or Gaza.


Yup. No way I will vote for Biden if he sends American troops to Israel. American taxpayer is already working very hard to send billions of dollars to Israel, on top of that we don’t want to sacrifice our kids for Israel. If Biden is so desperate then he can send his own grandkids.


Totally agree. It's time for table talk not war. Foreign interference should focus on negotiations and humanitarian aid, not war and supporting sides.


Unless the negotiations lead to the death of Hamas leaders, I don't see why Israel would be interested.


Israel would be interested because in that region, Israel is NOTHING without U.S support, if Israel want to wager a war with Arabs on it’s own then they go right ahead. Without U.S support we can find out exactly how that goes.

All of Israel’s talk, posturing, actions are based on the premise that U.S will be supporting then, the question will be to what extent the support will be given.


Do you think Biden is going to do anything to distance the US from Israel? The same Biden retreating from his $6 billion hostage deal as fast as he possibly can


The Iran deal is proceeding as agreed to. The easing of Iranian sanctions is also proceeding as agreed to. Can't afford a collapse of oil prices and chaos in order to appease Bibi's nationalist dreams.


You should ask the NYT for a correction

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/world/middleeast/us-qatar-iran-prisoner-deal.html


You should ask the Qatari government for a correction.

https://www.barrons.com/news/qatar-committed-to-iran-funds-deal-in-us-prisoner-exchange-3c801126


Reading is fundamental


"Qatar is committed to an agreement and will fulfil its obligations and will not do anything without consultations with our partners,"

https://www.barrons.com/news/qatar-committed-to-iran-funds-deal-in-us-prisoner-exchange-3c801126


Yes reading is fundamental but apparently you lack reading comprehension skills. They are committed to the US-Iran agreement, aka the agreement is proceeding as agreed. The agreement already contained provisions for consultation with partners and thorough vetting of fund usage by Iran.


So a one paragraph ambitious snippet from Barrons is the best you can find?

"The U.S. and Qatari governments have agreed to block Iran from accessing any of the $6 billion it gained access to as part of a prisoner swap deal between the Biden administration and Tehran last month, Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo told House Democrats on Thursday, according to three sources familiar with his remarks, two of whom were in the room."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/us-qatar-agree-not-release-iran-6-billion-prisoner-swap-rcna120135
"The U.S. and Qatar have reached an agreement to prevent Iran from accessing $6 billion recently unfrozen as part of a prisoner swap, the deputy treasury secretary told lawmakers on Thursday, sources confirmed to ABC News."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-halting-release-6-billion-iranian-oil-assets/story?id=103928072
"The United States and the Qatari government reached an agreement to prevent Iran from tapping $6 billion in frozen funds"
https://news.yahoo.com/u-stop-iran-accessing-6-164129575.html


All your news sources predate the OFICCIAL STANCE OF THE QATARI GOVERNMENT, made public October 13th with the visit of Sec. Blinken. The US put pressure on Qatar and ultimately came out empty handed. You lack both reading comprehension and critical thinking.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I desperately don’t want Israeli boots on the ground and I desperately wish so many Palestinian civilians wouldn’t die. And I also wish Hamas would stop bombing Israel. I don’t know how to solve this.

You do not need to solve this

Meanwhile, in an interview with CNN, Kirby said preparing troops for deployment "is really about sending a signal of deterrence". He added: "There are no plans or intentions to put US boots on the ground in combat in Israel."

And

Intense diplomacy, including the arrival of US President Joe Biden, on the need to develop a plan to get aid into Gaza and get foreign nationals out, may be staying Israel’s command. There’s also the thorny issue of foreign hostages.

Once this war intensifies, Israel’s closest allies want to be sure they’ve done everything possible to protect civilians, and prevent this war from erupting into a much wider conflagration.

So, what do you think?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:Israel appears to have committed an atrocity by bombing a hospital in Gaza:



I guess they wanted to just kill Palestinians, just like the paratroopers at the music festival


This will not end well, for either side.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the worst thing that could happen is for Israel to loose the support of American Jews.
Bombing a school where refugees were told to gather and that had 4000 people


Evangelicals support Israel almost in spite of the Jews. Hawks in both parties support it because they are a traditional ally and are fighting terrorists. I don't think Israel actually needs American Jews to support them


Evangelical voters are about 23% of the electorate but are very important in the Bible Belt. Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia and Virginia with sizable parts of: Florida, Louisiana, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, New Mexico, Ohio and Texas.

The Jewish vote at most is 9% in New York and 6% in New Jersey. After that there are a few regional or really cities where Jewish vote impact local and maybe a congressional seat.

The Jewish vote by itself just does not have the numbers behind it to impact US national elections.

Perhaps you are confusing the Jewish vote with the influence of aipac?
No politician has been successful without pledge of allegiance to what at the time pleases aipac


I am not confused at all. The Jewish vote is not important to national elections. Evangelical voters do not care about Jews. Israel is of great interest in evangelicals circles but not the reason some Jews support it. AIPAC is about Israel and money that buy’s influence not about Jewish voters. You do not have to look hard to see Israel(as in the state of Israel) active support of AIPAC.

Could aipac have more power than the Knesset?
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


Now y’all want mercy? (NP)


Who is “ya’ll”?

I’m an American citizen with relatives in Israel. I— and they— want Israel to conduct themselves better than Hamas.

As a U.S taxpayer I don’t want to see billions in military assistance used to kill children. This, again, is a belief I think is widely held.


I'm sure your relatives would rather stay alive


They don’t feel threatened by Palestinian newborns. More to the point they don’t feel any safer— nor are they any safer— for allowing those newborns to die of thirst.


You are speaking theoretically. Practically, the iron dome can only handle so many missiles before being overwhelmed. Again, your relatives would rather stay alive. I have friends there as well who already had family members murdered/abducted by Hamas. They are not sitting in their homes, with constant sirens going off, worrying about Hamas propaganda. They already know how Hamas operates and know, sadly, that innocents will die. They wish it didn't have to be that way, but it's not their choice.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I desperately don’t want Israeli boots on the ground and I desperately wish so many Palestinian civilians wouldn’t die. And I also wish Hamas would stop bombing Israel. I don’t know how to solve this.


Israel must hobble Hamas and liberate Palestinians from them.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:Israel appears to have committed an atrocity by bombing a hospital in Gaza:



I guess they wanted to just kill Palestinians, just like the paratroopers at the music festival


This will not end well, for either side.


One side was dancing and enjoying life. The other side had terrorists using them as human shields.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


Now y’all want mercy? (NP)


No, we want Israel to not indiscriminately kill civilians in Gaza. Why do you think this is permissible?


They are not indiscriminately killing civilians.
As you know by now, Hamas operates from civilian locations. In order to take out these brutal terrorists, some civilians are going to perish as well. Such as this attack:



Wouldn't it be nice if Hamas followed the rules of war and didn't imbed themselves in civilian locations?


The idiots think that there are cartoon missiles that have faces and know exactly who to attack


Then quite obviously missiles aren't the appropriate weapon for attacking an area that is densely populated with civilians, if they don't "know exactly who to attack." If random people on DCUM know that, then the Israeli government definitely does. So their choice to use them anyway constitutes the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Which is a war crime.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


Now y’all want mercy? (NP)


No, we want Israel to not indiscriminately kill civilians in Gaza. Why do you think this is permissible?


They are not indiscriminately killing civilians.
As you know by now, Hamas operates from civilian locations. In order to take out these brutal terrorists, some civilians are going to perish as well. Such as this attack:



Wouldn't it be nice if Hamas followed the rules of war and didn't imbed themselves in civilian locations?


The idiots think that there are cartoon missiles that have faces and know exactly who to attack


Then quite obviously missiles aren't the appropriate weapon for attacking an area that is densely populated with civilians, if they don't "know exactly who to attack." If random people on DCUM know that, then the Israeli government definitely does. So their choice to use them anyway constitutes the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Which is a war crime.


Then I assume you support a ground invasion.
Muslima
Member

Offline
A message that I hope maybe will give you pause: The moment that news broke of the horrific Hamas attacks, I and many others who have been advocating for Palestinian freedom, knew what would come next. We knew that there would be no recognition of those attacks as part of a cycle of colonial violence. We knew that there would be no acknowledgement of the hundreds of Palestinians killed in the past year, or the thousands killed in recent years. There would be no desire to understand the desperation and rage of people locked in a prison like animals, and what people may do when so desperate and so few options are made available to them.

And it is not just those who were actively grieving their families, loved ones, and community members, who would not see it. Our press and our governments would make sure that no one would see it. I cannot equate the Hamas attacks to what Israel is doing, and has been doing for years, to the Palestinians - no matter how much people have been insisting that I do so. Not because I ever support the killing of anyone, “innocent” or not, I promise you that I do not support such violence. But because to do so would be inaccurate and dangerous. The systemic oppression of a people, the ethnic cleansing of a people, the genocide against a people, is not the same thing as the horrific actions of those acting violently in response to oppression, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. But when we decide on a larger socio-political scale that the personal matters as much as, or even more than, the systemic in issues that are clearly systemic in nature, we will always default to prioritizing those who are more valued in society. We will default to humanizing one, and dehumanizing the other. And we will find ourselves signed on to systemic retribution that does not feel that it is responsible for what it does.

This is what keeps justifying the violent oppression of millions of people for decades. This is what emboldens people to say that the safety of one people must mean the loss of freedom of another. This is what enables the idea that one population has to prove that they “deserve” their freedom, by insisting on staying meek and silent under violent oppression. This carries the fantasy that healthy, liberal, peace-loving ways of organizing and governing can thrive in a space where people are brutalized every day - and the fantasy that it can exist for their oppressors as well. This idea that an oppressive system is not responsible for the cycles of violence it creates, and not responsible for how it responds to that violence is how a terror attack on September 11, 2001, leads to decades of war and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings. I remember marching and yelling as loud as I could then, and still wishing that I had done more to prevent the death and destruction that we are still seeing today because of our refusal to see and hold ourselves accountable to how our brutal, racist, colonizing systems had created the cycles of violence that so shocked and traumatized us all when the towers fell.


What's it like being Muslim? Well, it's hard to find a decent halal pizza place and occasionally there is a hashtag calling for your genocide...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.


Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.


The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.


The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”


So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.


+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.


So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?


Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?


Now y’all want mercy? (NP)


Who is “ya’ll”?

I’m an American citizen with relatives in Israel. I— and they— want Israel to conduct themselves better than Hamas.

As a U.S taxpayer I don’t want to see billions in military assistance used to kill children. This, again, is a belief I think is widely held.


I'm sure your relatives would rather stay alive


They don’t feel threatened by Palestinian newborns. More to the point they don’t feel any safer— nor are they any safer— for allowing those newborns to die of thirst.


You are speaking theoretically. Practically, the iron dome can only handle so many missiles before being overwhelmed. Again, your relatives would rather stay alive. I have friends there as well who already had family members murdered/abducted by Hamas. They are not sitting in their homes, with constant sirens going off, worrying about Hamas propaganda. They already know how Hamas operates and know, sadly, that innocents will die. They wish it didn't have to be that way, but it's not their choice.


Many Israelis are against the killing of Palestinian children and don’t think it makes them safer. Why do you think you know better than them what makes them safe?

Nir Avishai Cohen is going to fight— he’ll be in a lot more danger than you are— and he wrote on Sunday that

“As a major in the reserves, it is important to me to make it clear that in this already unstoppable new war, we cannot allow the massacre of innocent Israelis to result in the massacre of innocent Palestinians. Israel must remember that there are more than two million people living in the Gaza Strip. The vast majority of them are innocent. Israel must do everything in its power to avoid killing innocent people and to focus on destroying the militant army of Hamas.”

Why do you think you know better?


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