Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

A 15 year old is old enough to have a job!! They can handle talking to a teacher!!! It's lazy and ridiculous for us as parents to make these types of excuses for our kids instead of helping them learn to self-advocate!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

A 15 year old is old enough to have a job!! They can handle talking to a teacher!!! It's lazy and ridiculous for us as parents to make these types of excuses for our kids instead of helping them learn to self-advocate!

+1, if my 2nd graders can ask me a question about a question they got wrong on a test, a 10th grader can.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

A 15 year old is old enough to have a job!! They can handle talking to a teacher!!! It's lazy and ridiculous for us as parents to make these types of excuses for our kids instead of helping them learn to self-advocate!

+1, if my 2nd graders can ask me a question about a question they got wrong on a test, a 10th grader can.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

WE DON’T but as many people have explained, the way the system is set up and kids have gamed it to cheat is the issue that creates that problem. We can’t give back tests or go over answers as a class because kids take pictures, pass them around, and then retake it. We can’t make a new test for every kid to avoid this. So you get a SCORE and then can ask for INDIVIDUAL FEEDBACK about your score in a conference to get the assistance you might need. The math teacher explains how we go around and provide this live in class as kids work too.

Your desire to have teachers provide the kind of immediate feedback and correct answers doesn’t work when grading policies and cheating kids make it impossible to do that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

WE DON’T but as many people have explained, the way the system is set up and kids have gamed it to cheat is the issue that creates that problem. We can’t give back tests or go over answers as a class because kids take pictures, pass them around, and then retake it. We can’t make a new test for every kid to avoid this. So you get a SCORE and then can ask for INDIVIDUAL FEEDBACK about your score in a conference to get the assistance you might need. The math teacher explains how we go around and provide this live in class as kids work too.

Your desire to have teachers provide the kind of immediate feedback and correct answers doesn’t work when grading policies and cheating kids make it impossible to do that

So I guess part of the answer is kids who have sucky math teachers who DON’T walk around the room are screwed. Fine. Back to the very first post. This is why kids get tutors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference? [/

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

That may have been how the post started but several pages later it’s evolved and that’s what some of these individuals are commenting on.

as is the way with this forum. somebody misses the point or skews the conversation and the whole thing goes sideways...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

WE DON’T but as many people have explained, the way the system is set up and kids have gamed it to cheat is the issue that creates that problem. We can’t give back tests or go over answers as a class because kids take pictures, pass them around, and then retake it. We can’t make a new test for every kid to avoid this. So you get a SCORE and then can ask for INDIVIDUAL FEEDBACK about your score in a conference to get the assistance you might need. The math teacher explains how we go around and provide this live in class as kids work too.

Your desire to have teachers provide the kind of immediate feedback and correct answers doesn’t work when grading policies and cheating kids make it impossible to do that

So I guess part of the answer is kids who have sucky math teachers who DON’T walk around the room are screwed. Fine. Back to the very first post. This is why kids get tutors.

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If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

They have IEPs and case managers who check in with them frequently.

If your HS kid truly cannot approach a teacher for help then I suggest you get them tested for additional supports.

I'd love to have a case manager who checked in with my student frequently, and where supports in the IEP are actually provided. Not all are created equal, I guess.

You can thank the compensatory services for that. They are putting way too much on SPED teacher's plates.