No feedback from teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

A 15 year old is old enough to have a job!! They can handle talking to a teacher!!! It's lazy and ridiculous for us as parents to make these types of excuses for our kids instead of helping them learn to self-advocate!

+1, if my 2nd graders can ask me a question about a question they got wrong on a test, a 10th grader can.

Ok first, 2nd graders aren’t taking tests.
Second, nobody ever said that 10th graders weren’t able to ask questions.
Third, if you go back to the first post it says that kids are not getting tests and papers back. So they don’t know what they got wrong. The question was about getting information about what a student did wrong on a test.
Apparently, according to the people on this discussion, a kid is a terrible student unless they make appointments to meet with teachers outside of class on a daily basis. So now a teacher needs to meet with students outside of class on a constant basis to give them any feedback.
This is wild.

Stop lying. You’re embarrassing yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.

College professor here. I take a lot of issue with the idea that students should have to come to office hours to get ANY feedback on their work. That is wholly unacceptable. Some of the highest achieving students are also the most anxious. They aren’t just going to “get over it” and suddenly become a squeaky wheel. Office hours are for students who want more than the standard amount of feedback that can be expected for assignments. Timely feedback is critical to learning and you are failing your students if your aren’t doing that.

College students fill out anonymous evaluations of their professors at the end of the semester. One of the questions asks about feedback. We would be eviscerated if we didn’t give any feedback on papers. And some profs teach hundreds of students in multiple sections with little to no grading help. They aren’t getting long breaks during the day to grade; they’re teaching or in meetings or commuting. They are just working around the clock for similar pay as HS teachers in order to do right by their students.

Ok no offense but college isn’t the topic here. In high school, teachers have planning and kids have an entire block for study hall. If the feedback or grade given isn’t illuminating enough, there IS time in a high school schedule to go ask your teacher for a conference to ask questions. You want to revise the college setup but that’s a different discussion.

Again. Fully missing the point of the post. Making an appointment to ask questions is fine.
The fact that making an appointment to get ANY SORT IF FEEDBACK AT ALL is the problem. There are many kids who are literally getting NOTHING back from teachers except a score in SIS. Why does anyone think this is acceptable?

WE DON’T but as many people have explained, the way the system is set up and kids have gamed it to cheat is the issue that creates that problem. We can’t give back tests or go over answers as a class because kids take pictures, pass them around, and then retake it. We can’t make a new test for every kid to avoid this. So you get a SCORE and then can ask for INDIVIDUAL FEEDBACK about your score in a conference to get the assistance you might need. The math teacher explains how we go around and provide this live in class as kids work too.

Your desire to have teachers provide the kind of immediate feedback and correct answers doesn’t work when grading policies and cheating kids make it impossible to do that

So I guess part of the answer is kids who have sucky math teachers who DON’T walk around the room are screwed. Fine. Back to the very first post. This is why kids get tutors.

Yawn. You sound like a whiny teenager yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait. Students have to make appointments and come after school to get individualized feedback on assignments? That's insane.

No they can come during the designated period that schools have set up specifically for this purpose.

But that time isn't during class? Do they not get individualized feedback on papers and tests when they are handed back?

Try reading the thread before you respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait. Students have to make appointments and come after school to get individualized feedback on assignments? That's insane.

No they can come during the designated period that schools have set up specifically for this purpose.

But that time isn't during class? Do they not get individualized feedback on papers and tests when they are handed back?

Did you read the thread at all. We can’t hand back tests and give correct answers because grading policies say kids can retake anything. So if we do that, we give them the rest, then the answers, then they just use that to retake it and get a 100%. We meet with kids during their study hall to individually discuss their concerns, questions and assignment to provide specific feedback for them that doesn’t compromise the integrity of the assessment thanks to the stupid grading policy.

Kids get feedback on their writing as well as the grade. I’d they want a more in depth conversation about that, again- they come to us in study hall. That is why there is an entire class block set aside in their schedule - to do things like that during their school day. We can’t do that for every kid during class or we’d never get to teach and not every kid needs that. Everyone’s needs to learn and get help have to be juggled- study hall is so kids who need more can come to us for more.

Sooo... teachers therefore can't give feedback on an essay? That makes no sense.

I think private schools are accepting students. Read the dozens of post on this forum about this topic. Teachers have said they’re not giving detailed feedback because the kids don’t look at it and throw the paper away. If your student is one of those that once detailed feedback, they should meet with the teacher.

So, someone who is struggling financially who has a kid who reads feedback is not allowed to understand why a 10 page paper was graded the way it was? Try again PP, it's not a good look for you.

I'm a DP but come on... they can meet with the teacher during the study hall period! This has been said already.

And it’s an unacceptable solution. Teachers need to grade properly and give feedback. Period.

No, it’s not. Your kids need to use the study hall period for its intended purpose. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

No. Introspection is of YOURSELF, not directed at others. Words have meanings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

“Oh, I got a bad grade/a lower grade than I expected. I guess I should turn off my phone, stop chatting with my friends and go to study hall.”

How helpless are your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

More martyrdom from you. Boring.