No feedback from teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

They have IEPs and case managers who check in with them frequently.

If your HS kid truly cannot approach a teacher for help then I suggest you get them tested for additional supports.

I'd love to have a case manager who checked in with my student frequently, and where supports in the IEP are actually provided. Not all are created equal, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

They have IEPs and case managers who check in with them frequently.

If your HS kid truly cannot approach a teacher for help then I suggest you get them tested for additional supports.

I'd love to have a case manager who checked in with my student frequently, and where supports in the IEP are actually provided. Not all are created equal, I guess.

You can thank the compensatory services for that. They are putting way too much on SPED teacher's plates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

They have IEPs and case managers who check in with them frequently.

If your HS kid truly cannot approach a teacher for help then I suggest you get them tested for additional supports.

I'd love to have a case manager who checked in with my student frequently, and where supports in the IEP are actually provided. Not all are created equal, I guess.

100% agreed. And having teachers who actually pay attention to the IEP or 504 would be nice too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I am a parent. Completely sympathize with the teachers who say they are not going to waste hours and hours giving feedback for kids who don’t care. My suggestion: put a rubric on each essay, marking 1-5 for each required component. Write somewhere on the rubric “Please come for office hours to get more in-depth feedback.” That way the kids gets something, and knows how to get more.

[Anonymous]

^ Also, I went to HS in the late 90s and knew to stop by a classroom right after school if I needed help or more detailed feedback. And now HS students have a dedicated class period where they are told to do that very thing. Why is it the teacher’s fault if they don’t use it? It’s either the school admin’s fault for not publicizing the need for them to use it, the parents’ fault for not encouraging their kids to use it, or the students’ fault for being too lazy to use it. Again I’m not a teacher but you can only lead the horse to water…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

A 15 year old is old enough to have a job!! They can handle talking to a teacher!!! It's lazy and ridiculous for us as parents to make these types of excuses for our kids instead of helping them learn to self-advocate!

[Anonymous]

I originally was thinking the same way the OP was thinking. DC had endless complaints about not being able to review quiz answers to be able to do well on tests, not be able to review tests if a re-take was necessary. Written work never discussed..... Then I asked my kid... "DO you teachers have after school hours? Do your teachers have "Mascot" Time( I guess this is also regarded as a Study Hall) available for students"? Something must have clicked in my kid because they actually went and emailed the teacher and asked! Turns out the majority(unfortunately not all) would indeed meet with them to discuss all of the above during a Study Hall. And those that did not made an effort to answer questions over email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I originally was thinking the same way the OP was thinking. DC had endless complaints about not being able to review quiz answers to be able to do well on tests, not be able to review tests if a re-take was necessary. Written work never discussed..... Then I asked my kid... "DO you teachers have after school hours? Do your teachers have "Mascot" Time( I guess this is also regarded as a Study Hall) available for students"? Something must have clicked in my kid because they actually went and emailed the teacher and asked! Turns out the majority(unfortunately not all) would indeed meet with them to discuss all of the above during a Study Hall. And those that did not made an effort to answer questions over email.

OP here. It's funny that the assumption was/is made that my kid never asked to see teachers. He does indeed meet with teachers.
My issue, that somehow got lost in the shuffle:
No work is ever handed back. The only feedback is a number grade in SIS that often shows up days or weeks after the test, essay, lab, quiz, etc. An essay with only a grade number attached is really no feedback. A test that can only be reviewed if kids make extra appointments actually seems like more work for a teacher and no feedback for most kids. I'm wondering why some teachers are not handing back tests during class and giving kids at least a few minutes to look at what they've done DURING CLASS. Then, make appointments for deeper feedback if needed.
I hope my point might be clearer now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I originally was thinking the same way the OP was thinking. DC had endless complaints about not being able to review quiz answers to be able to do well on tests, not be able to review tests if a re-take was necessary. Written work never discussed..... Then I asked my kid... "DO you teachers have after school hours? Do your teachers have "Mascot" Time( I guess this is also regarded as a Study Hall) available for students"? Something must have clicked in my kid because they actually went and emailed the teacher and asked! Turns out the majority(unfortunately not all) would indeed meet with them to discuss all of the above during a Study Hall. And those that did not made an effort to answer questions over email.

OP here. It's funny that the assumption was/is made that my kid never asked to see teachers. He does indeed meet with teachers.
My issue, that somehow got lost in the shuffle:
No work is ever handed back. The only feedback is a number grade in SIS that often shows up days or weeks after the test, essay, lab, quiz, etc. An essay with only a grade number attached is really no feedback. A test that can only be reviewed if kids make extra appointments actually seems like more work for a teacher and no feedback for most kids. I'm wondering why some teachers are not handing back tests during class and giving kids at least a few minutes to look at what they've done DURING CLASS. Then, make appointments for deeper feedback if needed.
I hope my point might be clearer now.

Because as soon as the test is handed back someone takes a picture of it, posts it to the group chat, and the whole school has it.

I have 3 options:
1) wait to pass the test back until everyone has taken it (this is often 2 weeks later, since there is almost always someone out for sports/vacation/illness when we test)
2) Write 5+ versions of every test. An A/B version for test day so they don’t copy off their neighbor, a C version for anyone who takes it on a later date, a D/E version for the retake. Then there are study guides and remediation that are basically additional versions of the test.
3) Pass it back with the assumption that anyone who takes the test after that point has already seen the whole thing.

I have done all 3 at various points in my career and they all suck. Phones and endless retakes have made things very difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I originally was thinking the same way the OP was thinking. DC had endless complaints about not being able to review quiz answers to be able to do well on tests, not be able to review tests if a re-take was necessary. Written work never discussed..... Then I asked my kid... "DO you teachers have after school hours? Do your teachers have "Mascot" Time( I guess this is also regarded as a Study Hall) available for students"? Something must have clicked in my kid because they actually went and emailed the teacher and asked! Turns out the majority(unfortunately not all) would indeed meet with them to discuss all of the above during a Study Hall. And those that did not made an effort to answer questions over email.

OP here. It's funny that the assumption was/is made that my kid never asked to see teachers. He does indeed meet with teachers.
My issue, that somehow got lost in the shuffle:
No work is ever handed back. The only feedback is a number grade in SIS that often shows up days or weeks after the test, essay, lab, quiz, etc. An essay with only a grade number attached is really no feedback. A test that can only be reviewed if kids make extra appointments actually seems like more work for a teacher and no feedback for most kids. I'm wondering why some teachers are not handing back tests during class and giving kids at least a few minutes to look at what they've done DURING CLASS. Then, make appointments for deeper feedback if needed.
I hope my point might be clearer now.

Because as soon as the test is handed back someone takes a picture of it, posts it to the group chat, and the whole school has it.

I have 3 options:
1) wait to pass the test back until everyone has taken it (this is often 2 weeks later, since there is almost always someone out for sports/vacation/illness when we test)
2) Write 5+ versions of every test. An A/B version for test day so they don’t copy off their neighbor, a C version for anyone who takes it on a later date, a D/E version for the retake. Then there are study guides and remediation that are basically additional versions of the test.
3) Pass it back with the assumption that anyone who takes the test after that point has already seen the whole thing.

I have done all 3 at various points in my career and they all suck. Phones and endless retakes have made things very difficult.

Another teacher here.
Phones and retakes do indeed suck.
I will no longer make C,D, and E versions of the test.
Thus things don't get returned as the OP would like.
Our children have a dependence on technology and a different view of what cheating is which creates this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I originally was thinking the same way the OP was thinking. DC had endless complaints about not being able to review quiz answers to be able to do well on tests, not be able to review tests if a re-take was necessary. Written work never discussed..... Then I asked my kid... "DO you teachers have after school hours? Do your teachers have "Mascot" Time( I guess this is also regarded as a Study Hall) available for students"? Something must have clicked in my kid because they actually went and emailed the teacher and asked! Turns out the majority(unfortunately not all) would indeed meet with them to discuss all of the above during a Study Hall. And those that did not made an effort to answer questions over email.

OP here. It's funny that the assumption was/is made that my kid never asked to see teachers. He does indeed meet with teachers.
My issue, that somehow got lost in the shuffle:
No work is ever handed back. The only feedback is a number grade in SIS that often shows up days or weeks after the test, essay, lab, quiz, etc. An essay with only a grade number attached is really no feedback. A test that can only be reviewed if kids make extra appointments actually seems like more work for a teacher and no feedback for most kids. I'm wondering why some teachers are not handing back tests during class and giving kids at least a few minutes to look at what they've done DURING CLASS. Then, make appointments for deeper feedback if needed.
I hope my point might be clearer now.

Because as soon as the test is handed back someone takes a picture of it, posts it to the group chat, and the whole school has it.

I have 3 options:
1) wait to pass the test back until everyone has taken it (this is often 2 weeks later, since there is almost always someone out for sports/vacation/illness when we test)
2) Write 5+ versions of every test. An A/B version for test day so they don’t copy off their neighbor, a C version for anyone who takes it on a later date, a D/E version for the retake. Then there are study guides and remediation that are basically additional versions of the test.
3) Pass it back with the assumption that anyone who takes the test after that point has already seen the whole thing.

I have done all 3 at various points in my career and they all suck. Phones and endless retakes have made things very difficult.

Another teacher here.
Phones and retakes do indeed suck.
I will no longer make C,D, and E versions of the test.
Thus things don't get returned as the OP would like.
Our children have a dependence on technology and a different view of what cheating is which creates this situation.

OK, this I do understand. What kids think of as cheating or not cheating has definitely changed. And retakes, which are really for mastery but executed in all kinds of ways that don't work, have totally changed things. But in the end, what are kids learning without feedback? I'm still at a loss on this part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

[b]I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

THIS IS UTTER NONSENSE.
A 15 year old is not a mini college student. If teachers aren't teaching kids to do this then they will not be college ready at 18 or 19. Don't give me this crap about being college ready as a 9th or 10th grader. That is lazy and ridiculous.

What?? 15 year olds can DRIVE! They have jobs! And you think they can’t go talk to their teacher about an assignment during study hall?? I’m baffled. I really am.

What are you baffled by? Yes 15 year olds can have jobs. But to expect a 15 year old student to act the same as a 19 year old student is utterly ridiculous.

Nobody said they had to act like a 19 year old. We said if they can’t talk to their teacher during study hall about an assignment at age 15, how do you expect them to navigate office hours alone at age 18 when they go to college. The first scenario is a routine part of high school- if parents now think kids can’t manage that , I truly don’t know how they think their kids can handle going to office hours for a professor they barely even know when they are in college in 3 more years.