No feedback from teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it completely on the 150+ kids. I am a teacher. I taught in FCPS for many years.

My frustration stems from math class more than anything. In this class, the teacher is doing a few practice problems with kids and then gives them class time to complete homework. The teacher never moves around the room to see how kids are doing and students who are lost have no idea that they are actually lost until they take a test. Test grades only come back in SIS (weeks later) and students are not seeing any graded problems and have no idea where they are going wrong.

I'm a bit frustrated with English too. My kid spent days writing an essay and got no feedback other than a score in SIS. On the other hand, this teacher has made my kid enjoy English for the first time in a number of years - so he's doing something really well!

I feel for the teachers. I know they are overworked, underpaid, and worn out. But this total lack of feedback is frustrating when a kid is falling down and has no understanding of where they are going wrong. It puts a lot of onus on a KID if the only way to get any feedback is to make separate meetings with each teacher on a constant basis. This seems like a lot to ask.

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

If the only way to get feedback on a paper or problem set or lab or whatever is to set a separate meeting with each teacher, it would mean that every kid would need to be meeting with at least 3 teachers during each of the 90-minute advisory blocks in order to get anything that was even close to timely. That's not even possible since many of those periods end up as "no movement" and only rarely are kids allowed to see more than one teacher in a period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it completely on the 150+ kids. I am a teacher. I taught in FCPS for many years.

My frustration stems from math class more than anything. In this class, the teacher is doing a few practice problems with kids and then gives them class time to complete homework. The teacher never moves around the room to see how kids are doing and students who are lost have no idea that they are actually lost until they take a test. Test grades only come back in SIS (weeks later) and students are not seeing any graded problems and have no idea where they are going wrong.

I'm a bit frustrated with English too. My kid spent days writing an essay and got no feedback other than a score in SIS. On the other hand, this teacher has made my kid enjoy English for the first time in a number of years - so he's doing something really well!

I feel for the teachers. I know they are overworked, underpaid, and worn out. But this total lack of feedback is frustrating when a kid is falling down and has no understanding of where they are going wrong. It puts a lot of onus on a KID if the only way to get any feedback is to make separate meetings with each teacher on a constant basis. This seems like a lot to ask.

But it’s not a lot to ask. The alternative is we waste HOURS providing personal feedback on writing (and I am talking 25+ hours on 150 essays to do this) for EVERYONE so a couple kids don’t have to say “hey can I come see you during my study hall to discuss.” That’s a valuable skill for them and much more effective for us as teachers. I repeat: does your SON want the feedback or do you? If the latter, schedule a conference.

1. my kid wants some feedback so he knows where he can improve
2. yes, it would be easier to help him focus on what he needed to work on if I could see any feedback
3. schedule a conference with HS teachers? that's a funny joke since most of them can't even be bothered to answer an email

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it completely on the 150+ kids. I am a teacher. I taught in FCPS for many years.

My frustration stems from math class more than anything. In this class, the teacher is doing a few practice problems with kids and then gives them class time to complete homework. The teacher never moves around the room to see how kids are doing and students who are lost have no idea that they are actually lost until they take a test. Test grades only come back in SIS (weeks later) and students are not seeing any graded problems and have no idea where they are going wrong.

I'm a bit frustrated with English too. My kid spent days writing an essay and got no feedback other than a score in SIS. On the other hand, this teacher has made my kid enjoy English for the first time in a number of years - so he's doing something really well!

I feel for the teachers. I know they are overworked, underpaid, and worn out. But this total lack of feedback is frustrating when a kid is falling down and has no understanding of where they are going wrong. It puts a lot of onus on a KID if the only way to get any feedback is to make separate meetings with each teacher on a constant basis. This seems like a lot to ask.

But it’s not a lot to ask. The alternative is we waste HOURS providing personal feedback on writing (and I am talking 25+ hours on 150 essays to do this) for EVERYONE so a couple kids don’t have to say “hey can I come see you during my study hall to discuss.” That’s a valuable skill for them and much more effective for us as teachers. I repeat: does your SON want the feedback or do you? If the latter, schedule a conference.

The parent also needs to see the feedback to help guide their on the next essay to improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

[Anonymous]

MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sucks. The reality is what you want is not unreasonable except for the amount of students teachers have makes it really hard to do that. They can’t go over test answers as a class because unfortunately kids get endless retakes so they’d just be giving test answers out and then kids would ask to retake the test with them. They can’t grade homework as summative. Essays, I agree, ideally they get feedback- for my students, I give a grade and then offer them the ability to schedule a conference with me during their study hall or before or after school to discuss the grade and provide feedback. This would enable me to target specific feedback to the kids who really want it rather than expending hours giving it to kids who don’t read it. Nobody has ever taken me up on that though so I do think it’s worth considering you the parent might want the feedback more than the kid, which I get, but which won’t ultimately matter. They have to be the one to want it in order to actually apply it.

NP. This is good of you but honestly, is this something that we would ever have done when we were kids? Why are we dinging kids for not doing it now?

What alternative (given that endless retakes are allowed, so going over the test answers in class isn’t possible) would you suggest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it completely on the 150+ kids. I am a teacher. I taught in FCPS for many years.

My frustration stems from math class more than anything. In this class, the teacher is doing a few practice problems with kids and then gives them class time to complete homework. The teacher never moves around the room to see how kids are doing and students who are lost have no idea that they are actually lost until they take a test. Test grades only come back in SIS (weeks later) and students are not seeing any graded problems and have no idea where they are going wrong.

I'm a bit frustrated with English too. My kid spent days writing an essay and got no feedback other than a score in SIS. On the other hand, this teacher has made my kid enjoy English for the first time in a number of years - so he's doing something really well!

I feel for the teachers. I know they are overworked, underpaid, and worn out. But this total lack of feedback is frustrating when a kid is falling down and has no understanding of where they are going wrong. It puts a lot of onus on a KID if the only way to get any feedback is to make separate meetings with each teacher on a constant basis. This seems like a lot to ask.

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

DP. When we were kids, this was not the expectation for high school students. And we (presumably, since we're posting here) made it in the real world.

Sorry, kiddies, it’s not the 80s/90s anymore and school is not the same. Tell your kid to make an appointment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it completely on the 150+ kids. I am a teacher. I taught in FCPS for many years.

My frustration stems from math class more than anything. In this class, the teacher is doing a few practice problems with kids and then gives them class time to complete homework. The teacher never moves around the room to see how kids are doing and students who are lost have no idea that they are actually lost until they take a test. Test grades only come back in SIS (weeks later) and students are not seeing any graded problems and have no idea where they are going wrong.

I'm a bit frustrated with English too. My kid spent days writing an essay and got no feedback other than a score in SIS. On the other hand, this teacher has made my kid enjoy English for the first time in a number of years - so he's doing something really well!

I feel for the teachers. I know they are overworked, underpaid, and worn out. But this total lack of feedback is frustrating when a kid is falling down and has no understanding of where they are going wrong. It puts a lot of onus on a KID if the only way to get any feedback is to make separate meetings with each teacher on a constant basis. This seems like a lot to ask.

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

DP. When we were kids, this was not the expectation for high school students. And we (presumably, since we're posting here) made it in the real world.

When we were kids there also wasn't a forced 90 minute block every other day set aside specifically to meet with teachers. This has been built into the schedule for this reason.

Apparently no kids know this since no kids are doing it...

You’re kidding, right? Of COURSE they “know it.” It was drilled into their heads since the first week of school. It’s just more fun to be lazy, play on your phone and/or socialize with your friends instead of meet with your teacher.

Fine, but then don’t complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

For the students with IEPs who can’t do this yet, their case managers should be supporting them with this. Or as a parent, you can support with this. I worked with my son in middle school to follow up with his teachers when he didn’t understand something or did poorly on a test or assignment. As a 9th grader, he is doing 95 percent of that outreach unprompted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

They should be working with their case manager and taking electives like strategies for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS English teacher here. It infuriates me to read about the HS teacher not providing feedback to students. How are they supposed to improve? I chunk my students’ writing assignments and provide feedback at each step. Yes, it takes time, but helping students become better writers is a big part of my job - and I knew it would be when I chose this role. Over the years, I have figured out different systems to streamline my workflow; it is still time consuming, but it’s important. The “students who want feedback can seek me out” excuse is lazy at best and discriminatory at worst. Shame on you, PP.

Oh nonsense. The kind of feedback OP wants, yes , that warrants a conference. I am an English teacher too so when you mention you’ve stream lined your workflow I know what you mean: you’re only choosing certain skills to feedback on . If OP and her son or any kid want personalized in depth feedback, you and I both know it’s better for them to come talk to us so we can provide that than it is for us to spend 20 minutes on *every single paper* providing it when 99% of the kids don’t read it.

I truly don’t understand how parents in this forum expect their kids to be college ready. How will your freshman college student navigate professor officer hours if they apparently can’t and won’t even take 10 minutes out of their study hall block to go get feedback with their teacher in a writing conference?

DP. That's nice but there are teachers who don't provide any feedback. At all. Kids don't complain because they don't know better. That's why parents are complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it completely on the 150+ kids. I am a teacher. I taught in FCPS for many years.

My frustration stems from math class more than anything. In this class, the teacher is doing a few practice problems with kids and then gives them class time to complete homework. The teacher never moves around the room to see how kids are doing and students who are lost have no idea that they are actually lost until they take a test. Test grades only come back in SIS (weeks later) and students are not seeing any graded problems and have no idea where they are going wrong.

I'm a bit frustrated with English too. My kid spent days writing an essay and got no feedback other than a score in SIS. On the other hand, this teacher has made my kid enjoy English for the first time in a number of years - so he's doing something really well!

I feel for the teachers. I know they are overworked, underpaid, and worn out. But this total lack of feedback is frustrating when a kid is falling down and has no understanding of where they are going wrong. It puts a lot of onus on a KID if the only way to get any feedback is to make separate meetings with each teacher on a constant basis. This seems like a lot to ask.

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

DP. When we were kids, this was not the expectation for high school students. And we (presumably, since we're posting here) made it in the real world.

When we were kids there also wasn't a forced 90 minute block every other day set aside specifically to meet with teachers. This has been built into the schedule for this reason.

Apparently no kids know this since no kids are doing it...

You’re kidding, right? Of COURSE they “know it.” It was drilled into their heads since the first week of school. It’s just more fun to be lazy, play on your phone and/or socialize with your friends instead of meet with your teacher.

Fine, but then don’t complain.

Kids goof around and then when mom asks, they say “but the teacher never tells me anything or they don’t explain it.” Kids are just covering their a$$es at home and passing the buck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your HS aged kid can’t meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world.

Isn't that the point? My high school kid needs to learn to be ready for the real world, and without feedback it is tough. Do we just doom all those students who do not have the maturity, interest, or self-advocacy skills to specifically request feedback by withholding it until the student asks?

I understand the challenges that the teachers have, but of course many high school students are not ready for the real world!

How far are you going to take this?

What about when I put tons of feedback on a paper and it gets tossed in the trash before they leave the room? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to hold onto papers and ask clarifying questions?

Or what about when I put in an e-hall pass on behalf of a student requesting they come for help, talk to the student about their need to come, and the kid doesn't show? Are they "doomed" because they don't have the "maturity, interest, or self advocacy" to show up? Am I supposed to leave the other 24 kids in my homeroom to go track down that child and hold their hand back to my class?

At some point, the teacher's role is to provide an opportunity to get feedback in some form (written, in person, verbally, whole class, individual, whatever) and the student's role is to take advantage of it.

I'm the one who wrote that comment -- which I tried (but failed) to indicate wasn't aimed at the teachers. Or really even the feedback issue. It was at the previous poster's comment that "if your HS aged kid can't meet with their teacher and ask for help then they are in no way ready for the real world." I read comments along those lines frequently here. "If the kid can't manage X, Y, or Z in high school [which could be 9th grade!], how will they survive in college?" My point was just that they are still just students, and learning. They are not in the real world yet. They are not in college yet. They are students and not all are mature enough to do real world or college things as 14 year olds.

I am sorry. I teach 6th and the majority of my kids know how to reach out for help and feedback. High schoolers should 100 percent be able to if many 11 and 12 year olds can.

As a parent of a student with IEP goals aimed at self-advocacy (among other things), I can assume you that 100% of high school students do not have this skill.

I am PP. I am talking about the majority of students. Clearly there are students with executive functioning needs. But the OP made it seem like their kid did not have any IEP or special needs. We start teaching executive functioning and self advocacy in Upper ES, so by the time they get to secondary they know the expectations.

And so what are kids with EF need who get zero feedback supposed to do?

They have IEPs and case managers who check in with them frequently.

If your HS kid truly cannot approach a teacher for help then I suggest you get them tested for additional supports.