Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine is not a member of NATO. We should not be intervening militarily.


Russia’s official (and likely) reason for the military build-up is Russian fear of Ukraine joining NATO.

I am as pro-west and pro-USA as they come. But it behooves us to view this potential conflict from every angle.

The Russian “angle” sees Ukrainian NATO membership as analogous to the Cuban missile crisis in reverse; the Russians fear NATO missiles in Ukraine.

Putin will also hold up “protecting the human rights the Russian minority” in Eastern Ukraine as a pretext, even though we know he cares not at all for anyone’s human rights.


But the problem is that NATO, besides Poland and the Baltics, doesn't really want Ukraine to join. Considering the state of relations with Turkey, and Putin's growing friendship with Erdogan, there is chance that NATO expands in the short term. If Russia doesn't make it an issue it wouldn't be an issue. The Ukraine's geography is not a good defesive line and missiles in Ukraine provide no strategic advantage over missiles in Poland, Romania, or the Baltics. It's all a saber rattling move on Russia's part. Unfortunately the more Russia pushes the more likely Ukrainian membership in NATO becomes. If there is ever a war then the entire East European Plain would be one giant killing field, just like it has been during every previous war in that region.

From NATO's perspective, the Russian aggression over Ukraine, along with its Belarusian puppet, is a direct threat to Poland and the Baltics. Russia has already meddled with the Baltics through cyber attacks and riling up the ethnic Russian minority population. If the Ukrainian buffer gets breached then events will spiral out of control.


But the ethnic Russian minority in the Baltics IS prosecuted and denied their human rights. It's not a made-up problem.


Taking down a statue is not oppression


Making one-third of your population stateless and barring them from voting and property ownership is.


Russia started a cyber-war and developed the strategy that was used in Georgia and is now being used in Ukraine because Estonia moved a statute. Russia is a malign actor that uses fake irridentist claims to destabilize the entire region.


Estonia disenfranchised its Russian-speaking population before any of these things happened.

But hey yes, you're correct. Because Russia does all these things, according to you, it is entirely right and correct that ethnic Russians in the Baltics must be stripped of civil rights. May I suggest moving them to concentration camps? The locals have built serious skills in running them. With a bit of ingenuity, they can probably get the gas chambers running again.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine is not a member of NATO. We should not be intervening militarily.


Russia’s official (and likely) reason for the military build-up is Russian fear of Ukraine joining NATO.

I am as pro-west and pro-USA as they come. But it behooves us to view this potential conflict from every angle.

The Russian “angle” sees Ukrainian NATO membership as analogous to the Cuban missile crisis in reverse; the Russians fear NATO missiles in Ukraine.

Putin will also hold up “protecting the human rights the Russian minority” in Eastern Ukraine as a pretext, even though we know he cares not at all for anyone’s human rights.


But the problem is that NATO, besides Poland and the Baltics, doesn't really want Ukraine to join. Considering the state of relations with Turkey, and Putin's growing friendship with Erdogan, there is chance that NATO expands in the short term. If Russia doesn't make it an issue it wouldn't be an issue. The Ukraine's geography is not a good defesive line and missiles in Ukraine provide no strategic advantage over missiles in Poland, Romania, or the Baltics. It's all a saber rattling move on Russia's part. Unfortunately the more Russia pushes the more likely Ukrainian membership in NATO becomes. If there is ever a war then the entire East European Plain would be one giant killing field, just like it has been during every previous war in that region.

From NATO's perspective, the Russian aggression over Ukraine, along with its Belarusian puppet, is a direct threat to Poland and the Baltics. Russia has already meddled with the Baltics through cyber attacks and riling up the ethnic Russian minority population. If the Ukrainian buffer gets breached then events will spiral out of control.


But the ethnic Russian minority in the Baltics IS prosecuted and denied their human rights. It's not a made-up problem.


Taking down a statue is not oppression


Making one-third of your population stateless and barring them from voting and property ownership is.


Russia started a cyber-war and developed the strategy that was used in Georgia and is now being used in Ukraine because Estonia moved a statute. Russia is a malign actor that uses fake irridentist claims to destabilize the entire region.


Estonia disenfranchised its Russian-speaking population before any of these things happened.

But hey yes, you're correct. Because Russia does all these things, according to you, it is entirely right and correct that ethnic Russians in the Baltics must be stripped of civil rights. May I suggest moving them to concentration camps? The locals have built serious skills in running them. With a bit of ingenuity, they can probably get the gas chambers running again.


Glad you all are no longer pretending that Russia was not behind it all.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine is not a member of NATO. We should not be intervening militarily.


Russia’s official (and likely) reason for the military build-up is Russian fear of Ukraine joining NATO.

I am as pro-west and pro-USA as they come. But it behooves us to view this potential conflict from every angle.

The Russian “angle” sees Ukrainian NATO membership as analogous to the Cuban missile crisis in reverse; the Russians fear NATO missiles in Ukraine.

Putin will also hold up “protecting the human rights the Russian minority” in Eastern Ukraine as a pretext, even though we know he cares not at all for anyone’s human rights.


But the problem is that NATO, besides Poland and the Baltics, doesn't really want Ukraine to join. Considering the state of relations with Turkey, and Putin's growing friendship with Erdogan, there is chance that NATO expands in the short term. If Russia doesn't make it an issue it wouldn't be an issue. The Ukraine's geography is not a good defesive line and missiles in Ukraine provide no strategic advantage over missiles in Poland, Romania, or the Baltics. It's all a saber rattling move on Russia's part. Unfortunately the more Russia pushes the more likely Ukrainian membership in NATO becomes. If there is ever a war then the entire East European Plain would be one giant killing field, just like it has been during every previous war in that region.

From NATO's perspective, the Russian aggression over Ukraine, along with its Belarusian puppet, is a direct threat to Poland and the Baltics. Russia has already meddled with the Baltics through cyber attacks and riling up the ethnic Russian minority population. If the Ukrainian buffer gets breached then events will spiral out of control.


But the ethnic Russian minority in the Baltics IS prosecuted and denied their human rights. It's not a made-up problem.


Taking down a statue is not oppression


Making one-third of your population stateless and barring them from voting and property ownership is.


Russia started a cyber-war and developed the strategy that was used in Georgia and is now being used in Ukraine because Estonia moved a statute. Russia is a malign actor that uses fake irridentist claims to destabilize the entire region.


Estonia disenfranchised its Russian-speaking population before any of these things happened.

But hey yes, you're correct. Because Russia does all these things, according to you, it is entirely right and correct that ethnic Russians in the Baltics must be stripped of civil rights. May I suggest moving them to concentration camps? The locals have built serious skills in running them. With a bit of ingenuity, they can probably get the gas chambers running again.


How is the weather there in Moscow today?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
How is the weather there in Moscow today?


Too cold for the Nazi veterans parade.




RIGA, Latvia (JTA) — Each year on March 16, a macabre event unfolds on the square around this capital city’s most famous monument.

Known as the Memorial for Latvian Legionnaires, it is the world’s only march by veterans of Nazi Germany’s elite SS unit.

A handful of them, including nonagenarians in wheelchairs, lead the procession through the Old City to the monument. Some wear the insignia from their old units — the 15th and 19th Waffen Grenadier Divisions — as they receive flowers from young women flanking the procession.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-02-23-1992054004-story.html
Anonymous
- at least you did not deny that you are part of The Russian Troll Army (everyone - google it. It’s a real thing).

They walk among us: Russian trolls!
BlueFredneck
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A huge portion of the "pro-Russia" people in Crimea and western Ukraine weren't even originally from there. They arrived as part of massive repopulation efforts prior to the breakup of the Soviet Union. 100 years ago you would have found a lot of Tatars living in Crimea - they were displaced and replaced with ethnic Russians.


Well it's not like it was virgin lands you know. Go back in history a hundred years and you'll find one people living them, go back another hundred, and the picture will be quite different. You can't build a policy based on that.


Hmm... would you be talking about the Pale of Settlement? Yes, Russia has traditionally been extremely anti-Semitic.


It's not Russia that wiped out its Jewish population with the utmost enthusiasm before the Nazis came and by god, after.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-02-23-1992054004-story.html


To be fair, the Russians were otherwise occupied:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
Anonymous
Why aren’t we getting Russia on our side against China like in WW2 they helped us against Germany?


We have stupid leaders. Biden in only 10 months and everything sucks. Saber rattling Russia and 160 days Americans trapped in Taliban country.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t we getting Russia on our side against China like in WW2 they helped us against Germany?


We have stupid leaders. Biden in only 10 months and everything sucks. Saber rattling Russia and 160 days Americans trapped in Taliban country.


Because Russia is not on our side against China or anyone else. They have been actively working to destabilize the world and threaten our allies.

They only joined the Allies in WW2 after Hitler double crossed them.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t we getting Russia on our side against China like in WW2 they helped us against Germany?


We have stupid leaders. Biden in only 10 months and everything sucks. Saber rattling Russia and 160 days Americans trapped in Taliban country.


Because Russia is not on our side against China or anyone else. They have been actively working to destabilize the world and threaten our allies.

They only joined the Allies in WW2 after Hitler double crossed them.

Uh they joined the allies before we did. Barbarossa began on June 22, 1941. The attack on Pearl Harbor was on Dec 7, 1941.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:- at least you did not deny that you are part of The Russian Troll Army (everyone - google it. It’s a real thing).

They walk among us: Russian trolls!


"A Russian troll" - a DCUM word for "someone who disagrees with me or knows facts I find inconvenient".
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t we getting Russia on our side against China like in WW2 they helped us against Germany?


We have stupid leaders. Biden in only 10 months and everything sucks. Saber rattling Russia and 160 days Americans trapped in Taliban country.


All of the Americans who wanted out of Afghanistan are out. Where have you been? No Americans are "trapped" there.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
How is the weather there in Moscow today?


Too cold for the Nazi veterans parade.




RIGA, Latvia (JTA) — Each year on March 16, a macabre event unfolds on the square around this capital city’s most famous monument.

Known as the Memorial for Latvian Legionnaires, it is the world’s only march by veterans of Nazi Germany’s elite SS unit.

A handful of them, including nonagenarians in wheelchairs, lead the procession through the Old City to the monument. Some wear the insignia from their old units — the 15th and 19th Waffen Grenadier Divisions — as they receive flowers from young women flanking the procession.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-02-23-1992054004-story.html

Estonia has its own memorial to Estonians who served in the SS. Besides the 20th SS Division (Estonia), Estonians also played a significant role in the 5th SS Division (Wiking) which was noted for war crimes. There’s evidence that members of the 20th participated in at least one concentration camp massacre.
That said, many of the young men were given an impossible choice. Fight and die for a socialist dictatorship or a fascist dictatorship.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t we getting Russia on our side against China like in WW2 they helped us against Germany?


We have stupid leaders. Biden in only 10 months and everything sucks. Saber rattling Russia and 160 days Americans trapped in Taliban country.


Because Russia is not on our side against China or anyone else. They have been actively working to destabilize the world and threaten our allies.

They only joined the Allies in WW2 after Hitler double crossed them.


Well the Allies could have kicked Hitler's ass before the Russians did but oops they didn't.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
How is the weather there in Moscow today?


Too cold for the Nazi veterans parade.




RIGA, Latvia (JTA) — Each year on March 16, a macabre event unfolds on the square around this capital city’s most famous monument.

Known as the Memorial for Latvian Legionnaires, it is the world’s only march by veterans of Nazi Germany’s elite SS unit.

A handful of them, including nonagenarians in wheelchairs, lead the procession through the Old City to the monument. Some wear the insignia from their old units — the 15th and 19th Waffen Grenadier Divisions — as they receive flowers from young women flanking the procession.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-02-23-1992054004-story.html

Estonia has its own memorial to Estonians who served in the SS. Besides the 20th SS Division (Estonia), Estonians also played a significant role in the 5th SS Division (Wiking) which was noted for war crimes. There’s evidence that members of the 20th participated in at least one concentration camp massacre.
That said, many of the young men were given an impossible choice. Fight and die for a socialist dictatorship or a fascist dictatorship.


First, the Lithuanian Jews were killed off before Nazis entered the country. By the locals.

Second, I want you to imagine a march of the SS veterans in, say, Paris or Amsterdam, and then think of all the rich and varied punishments that would be visited upon them in these countries if they as much as showed their faces on the streets. And then think about why you're making excuses for the Baltics that you wouldn't have been able to make, say, for the French or the Dutch.
post reply Forum Index » Political Discussion
Message Quick Reply
Go to: