Post-Varsity Blues, where do the UC send their kids if they end up being average academically?

[Anonymous]

By average I mean truly average in terms of SAT and GPA. I’m guessing they don’t forgo college?

I know Varsity Blues was also unhooked high stat kids trying to get a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By average I mean truly average in terms of SAT and GPA. I’m guessing they don’t forgo college?

I know Varsity Blues was also unhooked high stat kids trying to get a hook.

UC = upper class?

[Anonymous]

I don't think we'll know this until 22-23 season, when we get back to more kids taking SAT, ACT, APs

[Anonymous]

High Point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By average I mean truly average in terms of SAT and GPA. I’m guessing they don’t forgo college?

I know Varsity Blues was also unhooked high stat kids trying to get a hook.

UC = upper class?

Yes

[Anonymous]

The UC don't use the "side door," like in Varsity Blues.

They just give big dollar donations directly to the school in exchange for admission, aka "the front door."

What made Varsity Blues so bad was that the schools were victims of the fraud. People were getting in for a lot cheaper than the "front door" method.

Personally, I think federal funding should be suspended for any university that considers legacy or donations in its admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The UC don't use the "side door," like in Varsity Blues.

They just give big dollar donations directly to the school in exchange for admission, aka "the front door."

What made Varsity Blues so bad was that the schools were victims of the fraud. People were getting in for a lot cheaper than the "front door" method.

Personally, I think federal funding should be suspended for any university that considers legacy or donations in its admissions process.

Eh, I hear you, but it's already more subtle than that anyways. Post-college I spent two years working in the admissions department of my "prestigious" alma mater. Admittedly I was a low level person, but helped with application review. It wasn't that legacies got an automatic bump or "points" for being legacies. It was more that their alum parents could steer them in the right direction of explaining how they would be a good fit, and gave them personal experience (visits to campus, meeting other alums, understanding the superficial attributes that the college valued, etc.) to draw on. And I think the same is true sometimes with donations. It's less about a transparent "they gave $500k, let's let them in," it's more that the donations give the donor opportunities to make chummy introductions. "Oh, Dean Smith, I know you don't give the time of day to anyone else, but as my check just cleared, I was wondering if you could have a phone call with my daughter who is considering applying to Prestige U." And then Dean Smith dutifully informs the admissions office that he had a fortunate opportunity to meet a charming and extraordinary applicant, even if her grades and test scores aren't quite what we're used to here at Prestige, and he just wants to make sure her application doesn't "get lost in the shuffle."

[Anonymous]

OP here. I’m saying what if a UC kid gets a 1100 SAT and is a C student. What do they do in 2021?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC don't use the "side door," like in Varsity Blues.

They just give big dollar donations directly to the school in exchange for admission, aka "the front door."

What made Varsity Blues so bad was that the schools were victims of the fraud. People were getting in for a lot cheaper than the "front door" method.

Personally, I think federal funding should be suspended for any university that considers legacy or donations in its admissions process.

Eh, I hear you, but it's already more subtle than that anyways. Post-college I spent two years working in the admissions department of my "prestigious" alma mater. Admittedly I was a low level person, but helped with application review. It wasn't that legacies got an automatic bump or "points" for being legacies. It was more that their alum parents could steer them in the right direction of explaining how they would be a good fit, and gave them personal experience (visits to campus, meeting other alums, understanding the superficial attributes that the college valued, etc.) to draw on. And I think the same is true sometimes with donations. It's less about a transparent "they gave $500k, let's let them in," it's more that the donations give the donor opportunities to make chummy introductions. "Oh, Dean Smith, I know you don't give the time of day to anyone else, but as my check just cleared, I was wondering if you could have a phone call with my daughter who is considering applying to Prestige U." And then Dean Smith dutifully informs the admissions office that he had a fortunate opportunity to meet a charming and extraordinary applicant, even if her grades and test scores aren't quite what we're used to here at Prestige, and he just wants to make sure her application doesn't "get lost in the shuffle."

This was super interesting. Thanks for sharing. Also chilling and a little disheartening to hear it's networking and chummy crap like this even at the college level. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

The "side door" may be closed, but the continued existence of USC still very much answers your question, OP!

I think of places like College of Charleston, Bucknell, American U in this vein as well. They're all "fine" schools, of course, totally appropriate for a UC kid, but when you've had all the privileges of a UC upbringing they're probably not what you were hoping for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By average I mean truly average in terms of SAT and GPA. I’m guessing they don’t forgo college?

I know Varsity Blues was also unhooked high stat kids trying to get a hook.

UC = upper class?

Yes

Define Upper class?
Is it net worth of 50 million plus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m saying what if a UC kid gets a 1100 SAT and is a C student. What do they do in 2021?

If you are really that well-off then your kids probably aren't ever going to get C's. The concept of the "gentleman's C" grade is in the distant past. All a wealthy parent has to do is get tutors to have the tutor do the work for their child, help their child, or pressure the private school into giving B's . Or they are having their child assessed and getting accommodations if they start getting C's. So maybe the wealthy parent can't increase the SAT score if their child really is average, but they can absolutely influence grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By average I mean truly average in terms of SAT and GPA. I’m guessing they don’t forgo college?

I know Varsity Blues was also unhooked high stat kids trying to get a hook.

UC = upper class?

Yes

Define Upper class?
Is it net worth of 50 million plus?

At least well-off enough that money is absolutely no object in choosing a college or preparing for college; in this scenario the only limit is the child’s performance itself. Usually attended private school pk-12 as well, likely boarding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC don't use the "side door," like in Varsity Blues.

They just give big dollar donations directly to the school in exchange for admission, aka "the front door."

What made Varsity Blues so bad was that the schools were victims of the fraud. People were getting in for a lot cheaper than the "front door" method.

Personally, I think federal funding should be suspended for any university that considers legacy or donations in its admissions process.

Eh, I hear you, but it's already more subtle than that anyways. Post-college I spent two years working in the admissions department of my "prestigious" alma mater. Admittedly I was a low level person, but helped with application review. It wasn't that legacies got an automatic bump or "points" for being legacies. It was more that their alum parents could steer them in the right direction of explaining how they would be a good fit, and gave them personal experience (visits to campus, meeting other alums, understanding the superficial attributes that the college valued, etc.) to draw on. And I think the same is true sometimes with donations. It's less about a transparent "they gave $500k, let's let them in," it's more that the donations give the donor opportunities to make chummy introductions. "Oh, Dean Smith, I know you don't give the time of day to anyone else, but as my check just cleared, I was wondering if you could have a phone call with my daughter who is considering applying to Prestige U." And then Dean Smith dutifully informs the admissions office that he had a fortunate opportunity to meet a charming and extraordinary applicant, even if her grades and test scores aren't quite what we're used to here at Prestige, and he just wants to make sure her application doesn't "get lost in the shuffle."

The front door is still open for these families, including the Ivy League. But it's not $500K - it's millions for a single kid. It was $2.5m for Jared Kushner back in 1998. The foreign oligarchs pay a lot more than that these days to get their kids into Stanford, Harvard, or Princeton. And they pay for a guarantee, not a "...let's not let her application get lost in the shuffle..." nonsense. That's what they say about the kid of an orthopedic surgeon who is a legacy. Sure, they donate....but it's not the kind of money that impacts endowments.

I don't even want to know how much Laurie Jobs paid for her daughter Eve to get into Stanford. Lord knows that kid doesn't work - she's traveling every week during the school year from jetset locations and posting on social media.

If you have the money, that front door is still wide open. But you're writing checks with at least two commas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC don't use the "side door," like in Varsity Blues.

They just give big dollar donations directly to the school in exchange for admission, aka "the front door."

What made Varsity Blues so bad was that the schools were victims of the fraud. People were getting in for a lot cheaper than the "front door" method.

Personally, I think federal funding should be suspended for any university that considers legacy or donations in its admissions process.

Eh, I hear you, but it's already more subtle than that anyways. Post-college I spent two years working in the admissions department of my "prestigious" alma mater. Admittedly I was a low level person, but helped with application review. It wasn't that legacies got an automatic bump or "points" for being legacies. It was more that their alum parents could steer them in the right direction of explaining how they would be a good fit, and gave them personal experience (visits to campus, meeting other alums, understanding the superficial attributes that the college valued, etc.) to draw on. And I think the same is true sometimes with donations. It's less about a transparent "they gave $500k, let's let them in," it's more that the donations give the donor opportunities to make chummy introductions. "Oh, Dean Smith, I know you don't give the time of day to anyone else, but as my check just cleared, I was wondering if you could have a phone call with my daughter who is considering applying to Prestige U." And then Dean Smith dutifully informs the admissions office that he had a fortunate opportunity to meet a charming and extraordinary applicant, even if her grades and test scores aren't quite what we're used to here at Prestige, and he just wants to make sure her application doesn't "get lost in the shuffle."

This was super interesting. Thanks for sharing. Also chilling and a little disheartening to hear it's networking and chummy crap like this even at the college level. Sigh.

PP here. No problem. I think about this stuff a lot based on my experience, even though it's no longer my profession. It can be disheartening, although I do think a (very) small defense can be made along these lines: colleges want students who want them. A student who really wants to be at your school, on balance, will probably be a better asset/fit for your school. And so if through the sheer chance of having legacy parents, Applicant Abigail discovered that Prestige U is THE school for her, all the better! Who better than a legacy to accurately judge that she's the right fit!?

You can probably tell from my tone that I don't really believe that, but I go through phases of trying to imagine what I'd be willing to do and what lines I wouldn't cross if my kids are applying to my alma mater in a few years.

At the end of the day, I think what tends to concern me more -- just because of the sheer numbers -- is less the "back door" (donations) or the "side door" (varsity blues cheating), but really the "front door" as it applies to UC and UMC kids. I was a kid from nowhere in flyover country with no legacy connections, and felt like I'd won the lottery to get into my school. I basically did. Because my parents hadn't been in a position to know what I needed to do to "play the game." But now that I live in a more UMC environment, I see all of the paid test prep, the guided extracurriculars, the extra counseling on essay-writing, and just the general advantages that accrue to children who come from upper middle and upper class means. Even at Harvard, most students are NOT legacies. But most ARE from these kinds of backgrounds.