Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The democratic part of the world united to eradicate ISIS and this is something we have to do with Hamas.

Putin, Iran, Syria, Hamas, and Hezbollah eradicated ISIS .

The Democratic part of the world was funding ISIS.

Trump because he was in bed with Putin was strong about the Us not intervening in Syria and killing Assad and the priority being working with Russia to kill ISIS instead . He was right.

You are clearly the dumbest person on the planet.

No rebuttal? When all fails, insult intelligence. It is very first grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is this hospital incident the flame that’s going to cause BLM/George Floyd nationwide protests this weekend like summer of 2020?


Israel is lost . Most Gen Z in the West have Muslim friends who were born and grew up here since their parents had to you know emigrate.

How stupid can one country be to not realize the tides were always shifting to Palestinian sympathy even during the last Gaza war in 2014? Remember the flotilla and divest from Israel campaigns ?

They should’ve seen the left’s pro Palestinian slant burgeoning years and years ago

Man, you are profoundly out of touch.

I’m not profoundly out of touch. I’m profoundly anxious.

This situation is getting scarier and scarier by the minute and is a powder keg.

Putin would love nothing more than to see the West divide over Israel vs Palestine and that’s what is likely to happen since both our president and Israel’s keep making dumb decisions that are helping Putin and Hamas

Your anxiety is telling you if Israel is destroyed, the terrorism stops. Unfortunately for all who believe this, you will get a huge dose of reality

What? I am pro-Israel surviving.

Israeli and Zionist arrogance and tunnel vision has not helped Israel. Pay attention to the room. It’s changed . You can keep saying most America is overwhelmingly pro Israel but from my vantage point that’s not true.

Americans are notoriously wishy washy and go with the wind and Israel being popular among Americans is only true among boomers and those over 35.

Academia is very left wing now. All across the country, there were pro Palestinian rallies this week even in Texas and harassment of Jewish students. I know some that have withdrawn

Pay attention . This is a very dangerous situation

I'm the PP and I agree with you. What I'm saying is that those who are against Israel are doing it out of a deep down fear, i.e. I understand the terrorists so they won't hurt me. What I'm saying is that Israel and Jews aren't their larger goal.

I disagree. I don’t think it’s fear of Hamas driving people to protest . I think it’s global sympathy. Americans love a bandwagon and hashtag activism so for some it’s probably just as simple as that. Some are anti Semites. Some are Jewish lefties with Palestine guilt, or fear of retribution , or just general hatred of right wing Israel.

I don’t think we can fit all these people in one neat box as we see today-many of the protesters who stormed the Capitol were Jewish

I hate right wing Israel in the same way I hate right wing MAGA republicans. I think they’re dangerously stupid and their policies make the world less safe.

I guess to many zionists that makes me an antisemite.

Well, your use of the word Zionist as a pejorative is your tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The democratic part of the world united to eradicate ISIS and this is something we have to do with Hamas.

Right. Like the IDF spokesperson says, “Wake up!”

I LOVE that idf spokesperson btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All because of the Big Lie. This is what happens when terrorists declare a Day of Unparalleled Anger.

This is what happens when you let terrorists walk across your border and you respond by targeting refugees convoys and hospitals. Wait till the ground war starts. That will break Egypt neutral support for Israel. You think this is not going to be a sh#t show all through the ME. There will be a total realignment, minimum a few assassinations of heads of state(Saudi and Egypt) and it will not favor Israel.

Now let’s talk about those leftist democrats, BLM and students who support Palestinians. Oh they are so evil and the cause of all these problems for Israel! If only we can silence those people everything will be fine.

Tunisia is a mess. Has been for a long while. I am sorry for the loss of the Torah, but these days of rage are mostly ridiculous spectacle.

The way American Jews feel about Israelis being slaughtered by Hamas is exactly how Muslims around the world feel about Palestinians being slaughtered by Israel.
You don’t understand their pain? It’s the same pain a Jewish person is feeling right now

Israel launched a surprise attack to butcher festival goers?

No, but they killed 200+ people from January-September 2023 in the West Bank and all of those killings were by surprise because the West Bank was not at war with Israel

Israel responds to terrorism. They don't sneak in with the goal of slaughtering as many people as possible for no reason other than the fact that people are a certain religion or race. They don't go house to house executing babies and children and grandmothers. They don't go house to house raping people. They don't go to festivals and gun as many people down as they can. They respond to terrorism. Jews will not go like lambs to the slaughter.. We did that once. We will never do it again. We are not victims. We have power now. And we will live and not be slaughter by a bunch of antiJewish haters.

Israel was founded on the basis of terrorism. White washing the history of the Irgun, etc, will never change that.

Deir Yassin?

One of my family members always brings up things like the Inquisition to object to organized religion. It seems like a really long time ago.... Maybe something more current?

It was 1948. There are people alive today who remember it from when it happened.

Sure, but at some point we have to shift to the now.

Would you say that to a Holocaust survivor?

“Yeah yeah you were massacred and removed from your home and thrown into a gas chamber. No big deal? Get over it”.

The lack of self awareness from the Israeli side is astounding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is this hospital incident the flame that’s going to cause BLM/George Floyd nationwide protests this weekend like summer of 2020?


Israel is lost . Most Gen Z in the West have Muslim friends who were born and grew up here since their parents had to you know emigrate.

How stupid can one country be to not realize the tides were always shifting to Palestinian sympathy even during the last Gaza war in 2014? Remember the flotilla and divest from Israel campaigns ?

They should’ve seen the left’s pro Palestinian slant burgeoning years and years ago

Man, you are profoundly out of touch.

I’m not profoundly out of touch. I’m profoundly anxious.

This situation is getting scarier and scarier by the minute and is a powder keg.

Putin would love nothing more than to see the West divide over Israel vs Palestine and that’s what is likely to happen since both our president and Israel’s keep making dumb decisions that are helping Putin and Hamas

Your anxiety is telling you if Israel is destroyed, the terrorism stops. Unfortunately for all who believe this, you will get a huge dose of reality

What? I am pro-Israel surviving.

Israeli and Zionist arrogance and tunnel vision has not helped Israel. Pay attention to the room. It’s changed . You can keep saying most America is overwhelmingly pro Israel but from my vantage point that’s not true.

Americans are notoriously wishy washy and go with the wind and Israel being popular among Americans is only true among boomers and those over 35.

Academia is very left wing now. All across the country, there were pro Palestinian rallies this week even in Texas and harassment of Jewish students. I know some that have withdrawn

Pay attention . This is a very dangerous situation

I'm the PP and I agree with you. What I'm saying is that those who are against Israel are doing it out of a deep down fear, i.e. I understand the terrorists so they won't hurt me. What I'm saying is that Israel and Jews aren't their larger goal.

I disagree. I don’t think it’s fear of Hamas driving people to protest . I think it’s global sympathy. Americans love a bandwagon and hashtag activism so for some it’s probably just as simple as that. Some are anti Semites. Some are Jewish lefties with Palestine guilt, or fear of retribution , or just general hatred of right wing Israel.

I don’t think we can fit all these people in one neat box as we see today-many of the protesters who stormed the Capitol were Jewish

JVP is like Messianic Judaism: very few actual Jews, lots of cosplay by non-Jews for optics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is this hospital incident the flame that’s going to cause BLM/George Floyd nationwide protests this weekend like summer of 2020?


Israel is lost . Most Gen Z in the West have Muslim friends who were born and grew up here since their parents had to you know emigrate.

How stupid can one country be to not realize the tides were always shifting to Palestinian sympathy even during the last Gaza war in 2014? Remember the flotilla and divest from Israel campaigns ?

They should’ve seen the left’s pro Palestinian slant burgeoning years and years ago

Man, you are profoundly out of touch.

I’m not profoundly out of touch. I’m profoundly anxious.

This situation is getting scarier and scarier by the minute and is a powder keg.

Putin would love nothing more than to see the West divide over Israel vs Palestine and that’s what is likely to happen since both our president and Israel’s keep making dumb decisions that are helping Putin and Hamas

Your anxiety is telling you if Israel is destroyed, the terrorism stops. Unfortunately for all who believe this, you will get a huge dose of reality

What? I am pro-Israel surviving.

Israeli and Zionist arrogance and tunnel vision has not helped Israel. Pay attention to the room. It’s changed . You can keep saying most America is overwhelmingly pro Israel but from my vantage point that’s not true.

Americans are notoriously wishy washy and go with the wind and Israel being popular among Americans is only true among boomers and those over 35.

Academia is very left wing now. All across the country, there were pro Palestinian rallies this week even in Texas and harassment of Jewish students. I know some that have withdrawn

Pay attention . This is a very dangerous situation

I'm the PP and I agree with you. What I'm saying is that those who are against Israel are doing it out of a deep down fear, i.e. I understand the terrorists so they won't hurt me. What I'm saying is that Israel and Jews aren't their larger goal.

I disagree. I don’t think it’s fear of Hamas driving people to protest . I think it’s global sympathy. Americans love a bandwagon and hashtag activism so for some it’s probably just as simple as that. Some are anti Semites. Some are Jewish lefties with Palestine guilt, or fear of retribution , or just general hatred of right wing Israel.

I don’t think we can fit all these people in one neat box as we see today-many of the protesters who stormed the Capitol were Jewish

JVP is like Messianic Judaism: very few actual Jews, lots of cosplay by non-Jews for optics.

Creepy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

Your old school position is fine, but your use of the term “chopping block” is awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All because of the Big Lie. This is what happens when terrorists declare a Day of Unparalleled Anger.

This is what happens when you let terrorists walk across your border and you respond by targeting refugees convoys and hospitals. Wait till the ground war starts. That will break Egypt neutral support for Israel. You think this is not going to be a sh#t show all through the ME. There will be a total realignment, minimum a few assassinations of heads of state(Saudi and Egypt) and it will not favor Israel.

Now let’s talk about those leftist democrats, BLM and students who support Palestinians. Oh they are so evil and the cause of all these problems for Israel! If only we can silence those people everything will be fine.

Tunisia is a mess. Has been for a long while. I am sorry for the loss of the Torah, but these days of rage are mostly ridiculous spectacle.

The way American Jews feel about Israelis being slaughtered by Hamas is exactly how Muslims around the world feel about Palestinians being slaughtered by Israel.
You don’t understand their pain? It’s the same pain a Jewish person is feeling right now

They feel so badly that they won't help save the civilians still there. Give me a break

Save them how? Egypt tried and IDF bombed the Rafah crossing. America says sorry peeps, we can’t save tax paying American citizens in Gaza but we can send a ship and planes to Israel to ship American citizens out ASAP.

Do you think Tunisia wants to war with Israel so they can bomb Tunisian hospitals and children too?

The crossing was not bombed. It’s still there but closed because Egypt has chosen to keep it closed. Try to at least be factual.

The crossing has been bombed several times and the IDF acknowledges it. Yes it’s still standing but Israel has said they will continue to bomb anything coming through without their consent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

Your old school position is fine, but your use of the term “chopping block” is awful.

Oh come on. You know it’s an expression. The Israeli people will be holding him accountable for this horrific breach of intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

Where is everywhere? If we had a more balanced foreign policy and put Israel on check from time to time, we wouldn’t even get the ire and anger from the Middle East period.

Is there a way we can keep a friendship with Israel but also criticize Israel when they are wrong as Obama did once upon a time regarding settlements? Netanyahu backstabbed him to align with Putin who is now aligned with Hamas so I agree he needs to be on worse than a chopping block. He should be tried for corruption in Israeli court and jailed just like Trump should be jailed here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is this hospital incident the flame that’s going to cause BLM/George Floyd nationwide protests this weekend like summer of 2020?


Israel is lost . Most Gen Z in the West have Muslim friends who were born and grew up here since their parents had to you know emigrate.

How stupid can one country be to not realize the tides were always shifting to Palestinian sympathy even during the last Gaza war in 2014? Remember the flotilla and divest from Israel campaigns ?

They should’ve seen the left’s pro Palestinian slant burgeoning years and years ago

Man, you are profoundly out of touch.

I’m not profoundly out of touch. I’m profoundly anxious.

This situation is getting scarier and scarier by the minute and is a powder keg.

Putin would love nothing more than to see the West divide over Israel vs Palestine and that’s what is likely to happen since both our president and Israel’s keep making dumb decisions that are helping Putin and Hamas

Your anxiety is telling you if Israel is destroyed, the terrorism stops. Unfortunately for all who believe this, you will get a huge dose of reality

What? I am pro-Israel surviving.

Israeli and Zionist arrogance and tunnel vision has not helped Israel. Pay attention to the room. It’s changed . You can keep saying most America is overwhelmingly pro Israel but from my vantage point that’s not true.

Americans are notoriously wishy washy and go with the wind and Israel being popular among Americans is only true among boomers and those over 35.

Academia is very left wing now. All across the country, there were pro Palestinian rallies this week even in Texas and harassment of Jewish students. I know some that have withdrawn

Pay attention . This is a very dangerous situation

I'm the PP and I agree with you. What I'm saying is that those who are against Israel are doing it out of a deep down fear, i.e. I understand the terrorists so they won't hurt me. What I'm saying is that Israel and Jews aren't their larger goal.

I disagree. I don’t think it’s fear of Hamas driving people to protest . I think it’s global sympathy. Americans love a bandwagon and hashtag activism so for some it’s probably just as simple as that. Some are anti Semites. Some are Jewish lefties with Palestine guilt, or fear of retribution , or just general hatred of right wing Israel.

I don’t think we can fit all these people in one neat box as we see today-many of the protesters who stormed the Capitol were Jewish

I hate right wing Israel in the same way I hate right wing MAGA republicans. I think they’re dangerously stupid and their policies make the world less safe.

I guess to many zionists that makes me an antisemite.

Well, your use of the word Zionist as a pejorative is your tell.

Not a pejorative, it’s a descriptive term for people who support the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. Any criticism of Netanyahu is met with accusations of antisemitism. But then again, for the right wing demographic (especially in the US) words have lost all meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

Where is everywhere? If we had a more balanced foreign policy and put Israel on check from time to time, we wouldn’t even get the ire and anger from the Middle East period.

Is there a way we can keep a friendship with Israel but also criticize Israel when they are wrong as Obama did once upon a time regarding settlements? Netanyahu backstabbed him to align with Putin who is now aligned with Hamas so I agree he needs to be on worse than a chopping block. He should be tried for corruption in Israeli court and jailed just like Trump should be jailed here

You have got to be kidding. The ME hates us because we have equal rights for women, lgbtq people are accepted, we are jewish, we don’t believe in public beheadings etc. Get a clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is this hospital incident the flame that’s going to cause BLM/George Floyd nationwide protests this weekend like summer of 2020?


Israel is lost . Most Gen Z in the West have Muslim friends who were born and grew up here since their parents had to you know emigrate.

How stupid can one country be to not realize the tides were always shifting to Palestinian sympathy even during the last Gaza war in 2014? Remember the flotilla and divest from Israel campaigns ?

They should’ve seen the left’s pro Palestinian slant burgeoning years and years ago

Man, you are profoundly out of touch.

I’m not profoundly out of touch. I’m profoundly anxious.

This situation is getting scarier and scarier by the minute and is a powder keg.

Putin would love nothing more than to see the West divide over Israel vs Palestine and that’s what is likely to happen since both our president and Israel’s keep making dumb decisions that are helping Putin and Hamas

Your anxiety is telling you if Israel is destroyed, the terrorism stops. Unfortunately for all who believe this, you will get a huge dose of reality

What? I am pro-Israel surviving.

Israeli and Zionist arrogance and tunnel vision has not helped Israel. Pay attention to the room. It’s changed . You can keep saying most America is overwhelmingly pro Israel but from my vantage point that’s not true.

Americans are notoriously wishy washy and go with the wind and Israel being popular among Americans is only true among boomers and those over 35.

Academia is very left wing now. All across the country, there were pro Palestinian rallies this week even in Texas and harassment of Jewish students. I know some that have withdrawn

Pay attention . This is a very dangerous situation

I'm the PP and I agree with you. What I'm saying is that those who are against Israel are doing it out of a deep down fear, i.e. I understand the terrorists so they won't hurt me. What I'm saying is that Israel and Jews aren't their larger goal.

I disagree. I don’t think it’s fear of Hamas driving people to protest . I think it’s global sympathy. Americans love a bandwagon and hashtag activism so for some it’s probably just as simple as that. Some are anti Semites. Some are Jewish lefties with Palestine guilt, or fear of retribution , or just general hatred of right wing Israel.

I don’t think we can fit all these people in one neat box as we see today-many of the protesters who stormed the Capitol were Jewish

JVP is like Messianic Judaism: very few actual Jews, lots of cosplay by non-Jews for optics.

That's pretty anti-Semitic. AIPAC doesn't like them because they air the dirty laundry. Calling them self-hating is one thing but denying their Judaism is a different level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is just as much in fear of Israel as the Middle East countries are.

Nothing else could explain the double standards in treatment

Lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The US wants israel to do the dirty work of keeping the peace in the region without a western country needing to constantly be at war or occupy some country in the region to prevent rampant anti western terrorism.

Israel is a democracy in name only . Netanyahu has been PM for years and years and years now. Longer than Putin or Erdogan have been in office.

Israel does no dirty work for us and they certainly don’t keep the peace. We do the dirty work for them.

The IDF prevents the us military from having to go in everywhere like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s no small feat.

I’m no supporter of Netanyahu, I’m anti settlement and pro two state solution. Plenty of moderates out there who support Israel’s right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, and see the mutually beneficial relationship our two countries have. I would love to see Netanyahu go and when the dust settles after this war, very possible he’ll be on the chopping block.

Your old school position is fine, but your use of the term “chopping block” is awful.

Oh come on. You know it’s an expression. The Israeli people will be holding him accountable for this horrific breach of intelligence.

Yes. But the expression is not constructive.