That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking that alcohol doesn't matter is just dumb. Placing responsibility for your own safety onto other drunk people is equally dumb. Has she not passed out it would have been a regular college hook up. Had he not been there she would have passed out anyway and possibly found behind the same dumpster. Drinking is a choice and with choices come consequences. I am having very hard time feeling sorry for her.

I do feel sorry for her. I don't think the natural consequence of drinking is rape. However, it certainly is a potential consequence, and one that should not be ignored.

Compare it to smoking. Many people who smoke get lung cancer. Some people who smoke do not. Some people get lung cancer without ever having smoked. If you smoke and get lung cancer, it doesn't mean you deserved to get lung cancer. It does mean you made a stupid decision that increased your risk. A decision you would have been better off not making.

So it is with drinking at a party. It's just better not to do it. Plenty of people drink at parties and are fine, just like plenty of people smoke and are fine, and plenty of people go running by themselves at 2 am with headphones and are fine. But a hell of a lot of people do these things and are not fine. Do you really want to take the chance that you'll be one of them? Cutting down on alcohol consumption would not eliminate rape and sexual assault, but it would go a long way towards reducing it.

I am fine with that message if it is directed to both men and women. If you only direct it towards women, you are making women solely responsible for preventing their own rapes. Men have to be accountable for changing their behavior, too.

PP here and I would definitely direct it toward men and women. Women so they can protect themselves, men so they can control themselves and/or recognize when their partner can't give consent.

I also don't understand how any boy or man can enjoy having sex with a limp, unconscious, or otherwise unenthusiastic partner, but that's a different issue ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope. Foreign object was dirt, pine needles and other stuff. They pulled it out of her at the hospital. Turner is a weirdo.

Are you serious?

If true, he has issues on multiple fronts. Very sick young man.

No the charge and conviction were for fingers. It was outside and messy, not deliberate, as PP is implying. Stick to what he was actually convicted of.

And you know that because you were there? And you were on the jury, so you know what the jury found?

As the owner of a vagina, I can't imagine how someone gets pine needles in it without them being deliberately placed there. There had to be a lot of force or a very deliberate action. That's not something that just happens.

I asked somebody that does rape kits and it does, just happen, when having sex outside.

Because there is thrusting when you have sex. It's a good bit of force and it's repetitive.

They weren't having sex, though. PP has been very insistent that they weren't having sex and that she wasn't raped.PP has been insisting that he was just fingering her. If he was fingering her hard enough to shove pine needles in her vagina, he was fisting her.

Are you sure you have a vagina? Have you ever been fingered properly? There is some force to it. Certainly if you have something on your fingers it will get pushed up in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to teach my girls to assume all men are dirtbags (even though most are not), and unless you know EVERYONE you are with in a closed environment, and trust them completely, don't drink to the point of passing out. And I'm going to teach my sons to respect women and that no means no and that the law says drunk women cannot consent, even if you are drunk too.

No one drinks enough to pass out on purpose. You can rarely control who will be at a party especially in college. I don't believe in blaming women but if I had a daughter I would do what I could in advance as well of course. Maybe we should actively teach safe drinking just like we promote safe sex and sex ed. Young men and women shouldn't be sent off to college with zero drinking knowledge where they'll be surrounded by weekend binge drinkers. They should be taught how to pace themselves, what not to mix, they need to eat first and rehydrate etc..

I think it's great that you are teaching your son about consent. Hearing that from you will be powerful I'm sure they'll always remember that.

Teaching safe drinking would be good. I spent a summer studying abroad in Japan as a rising high school senior and witnessed what happens when kids drink unsafely. One evening one of the girls and a couple of the guys got pretty drunk. We all (30 kids or so) were in a dorm together and were all hanging out, though only a few kids were drinking. Next thing we know the girl and one guy are heavily making out and heading for a closet. The four non-drunk girls (including myself) thought this was a bad idea and separated them. The drunk girl was slurring and insisting she wanted to be with him; the drunk guy was threatening us. A couple of other guys intervened at our request and dragged him down the hallway. For the next two hours he kept coming back and pounding on our door and was dragged away, only to return. Meanwhile drunk girl kept telling us how mean we were to not let her go have sex with him. Eventually everyone fell asleep. The next day drunk girl had only vague memories of any of this and was utterly horrified when we told her. She was very relieved and grateful that we didn't let anything happen. Drunk guy never apologized or referred to it.

After that experience I swore I would never let myself get so drunk that I didn't know what was going on. I never wanted to be in that position. And if that meant not getting drunk at all at a party to avoid any possibility of this happening, then that's what I was going to do. And I stuck to it. Probably one of the more formative experiences of my young adult life.

In my experience with friends and family members, girls who get too drunk at parties tend to regret it. It's fun in the moment but blackouts and hazy memory the next day is scary. The question is whether they get assaulted before they stop the pattern. Maybe safe drinking education, like safe sex education, would help people think about this stuff in advance. And that goes for boys too. If the boy is drunk, even assuming no predatory intent on his part, it severely lessens his chances of recognizing that his partner is incapable of consent. And he's going to get blamed. It's just not worth it for anybody.

Great story of taking responsibility, OP. But here's the essential point that you missed. You and your friends, as by-standers, took responsibility for protecting these two from themselves. It's not just a matter of men and women both not drinking themselves silly, it's also people, especially men, having the guts and forethought to intervene in a dicey situation. Thank god those Swedish graduate students were people with such sterling qualities.

I'm aware of that. But my point was also that it taught me that I can't be sure anyone else is going to intervene for me, so I should do my best not to put myself in that situation in the first place. Sometimes it's unavoidable. But getting drunk off your ass is avoidable unless someone's spiking your drink.

[Anonymous]

according to certain posts here it would be justified to rape drunk people male or female I suppose right?. Hey, do not get drunk or you might exposed yourself to be raped by someone or something. Imagine if guys would have the fear of getting drunk because of this possibility.

[Anonymous]

Woman here. This sums up consent:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:according to certain posts here it would be justified to rape drunk people male or female I suppose right?. Hey, do not get drunk or you might exposed yourself to be raped by someone or something. Imagine if guys would have the fear of getting drunk because of this possibility.

The current thinking is that sex with a drunk person is rape. It may or may not bring criminal charges but it can get you kicked out of school, immediately.

However, in this instance, it was not sex with a drunk person that was rape, it was once she passed out that it was rape. Before that, it was just sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to teach my girls to assume all men are dirtbags (even though most are not), and unless you know EVERYONE you are with in a closed environment, and trust them completely, don't drink to the point of passing out. And I'm going to teach my sons to respect women and that no means no and that the law says drunk women cannot consent, even if you are drunk too.

No one drinks enough to pass out on purpose. You can rarely control who will be at a party especially in college. I don't believe in blaming women but if I had a daughter I would do what I could in advance as well of course. Maybe we should actively teach safe drinking just like we promote safe sex and sex ed. Young men and women shouldn't be sent off to college with zero drinking knowledge where they'll be surrounded by weekend binge drinkers. They should be taught how to pace themselves, what not to mix, they need to eat first and rehydrate etc..

I think it's great that you are teaching your son about consent. Hearing that from you will be powerful I'm sure they'll always remember that.

My son has already told me that he has no interest in drinking alcohol. He enjoys athletic pursuits and being fit. Drugs/drinking/tobacco don't fit into his lifestyle. I don't know how I ended up with a kid like this but right about now I am counting my lucky stars that I have (I definitely enjoyed drinking in college). And he isn't even judgmental about people who do drink, it's just not his thing.

At any rate, I mention this because drinking really is...optional. Definitely talk to them about watching out for themselves and other people. Definitely talk to boys about being decent to girls.

What happened in this case is a parent's nightmare - on both sides. But I really think that there are more swedes in this world than Brocks.

How old is your son?

He's a HS junior.

Report back when he is a junior in college, especially one with no experience drinking in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope. Foreign object was dirt, pine needles and other stuff. They pulled it out of her at the hospital. Turner is a weirdo.

Are you serious?

If true, he has issues on multiple fronts. Very sick young man.

No the charge and conviction were for fingers. It was outside and messy, not deliberate, as PP is implying. Stick to what he was actually convicted of.

And you know that because you were there? And you were on the jury, so you know what the jury found?

As the owner of a vagina, I can't imagine how someone gets pine needles in it without them being deliberately placed there. There had to be a lot of force or a very deliberate action. That's not something that just happens.

I asked somebody that does rape kits and it does, just happen, when having sex outside.

Because there is thrusting when you have sex. It's a good bit of force and it's repetitive.

They weren't having sex, though. PP has been very insistent that they weren't having sex and that she wasn't raped.PP has been insisting that he was just fingering her. If he was fingering her hard enough to shove pine needles in her vagina, he was fisting her.

Are you sure you have a vagina? Have you ever been fingered properly? There is some force to it. Certainly if you have something on your fingers it will get pushed up in there.

How on earth did he have pine needles on his hands? Were they just stuck there with magic? How did he not notice that he had magic pine needles stuck all over his hands?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope. Foreign object was dirt, pine needles and other stuff. They pulled it out of her at the hospital. Turner is a weirdo.

Are you serious?

If true, he has issues on multiple fronts. Very sick young man.

No the charge and conviction were for fingers. It was outside and messy, not deliberate, as PP is implying. Stick to what he was actually convicted of.

And you know that because you were there? And you were on the jury, so you know what the jury found?

As the owner of a vagina, I can't imagine how someone gets pine needles in it without them being deliberately placed there. There had to be a lot of force or a very deliberate action. That's not something that just happens.

I asked somebody that does rape kits and it does, just happen, when having sex outside.

Because there is thrusting when you have sex. It's a good bit of force and it's repetitive.

They weren't having sex, though. PP has been very insistent that they weren't having sex and that she wasn't raped.PP has been insisting that he was just fingering her. If he was fingering her hard enough to shove pine needles in her vagina, he was fisting her.

Are you sure you have a vagina? Have you ever been fingered properly? There is some force to it. Certainly if you have something on your fingers it will get pushed up in there.

How on earth did he have pine needles on his hands? Were they just stuck there with magic? How did he not notice that he had magic pine needles stuck all over his hands?

go have sex on a bed of pine needles and tell us how many are stuck to your body and are all up in the privates... you realize pine needles have sap on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope. Foreign object was dirt, pine needles and other stuff. They pulled it out of her at the hospital. Turner is a weirdo.

Are you serious?

If true, he has issues on multiple fronts. Very sick young man.

No the charge and conviction were for fingers. It was outside and messy, not deliberate, as PP is implying. Stick to what he was actually convicted of.

And you know that because you were there? And you were on the jury, so you know what the jury found?

As the owner of a vagina, I can't imagine how someone gets pine needles in it without them being deliberately placed there. There had to be a lot of force or a very deliberate action. That's not something that just happens.

I asked somebody that does rape kits and it does, just happen, when having sex outside.

Because there is thrusting when you have sex. It's a good bit of force and it's repetitive.

They weren't having sex, though. PP has been very insistent that they weren't having sex and that she wasn't raped.PP has been insisting that he was just fingering her. If he was fingering her hard enough to shove pine needles in her vagina, he was fisting her.

Are you sure you have a vagina? Have you ever been fingered properly? There is some force to it. Certainly if you have something on your fingers it will get pushed up in there.

How on earth did he have pine needles on his hands? Were they just stuck there with magic? How did he not notice that he had magic pine needles stuck all over his hands?

go have sex on a bed of pine needles and tell us how many are stuck to your body and are all up in the privates... you realize pine needles have sap on them.

I suspect you're the one who hasn't been doing things properly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope. Foreign object was dirt, pine needles and other stuff. They pulled it out of her at the hospital. Turner is a weirdo.

Are you serious?

If true, he has issues on multiple fronts. Very sick young man.

No the charge and conviction were for fingers. It was outside and messy, not deliberate, as PP is implying. Stick to what he was actually convicted of.

And you know that because you were there? And you were on the jury, so you know what the jury found?

As the owner of a vagina, I can't imagine how someone gets pine needles in it without them being deliberately placed there. There had to be a lot of force or a very deliberate action. That's not something that just happens.

I wasn't there, but I can certainly see it happening if they were laying on a bed of pine needles. He is touching her. Puts his hand on the ground for a second to reposition and some pine needles stick to his hand. He is touching her again. They were sloppy drunk - I doubt he carefully laid a clean blanket down first. They were in her hair too. Think he put those there too?

Guess you have never had sex on the beach. Sand gets everywhere!

Sand isn't the same as pine needles. Not even close. Sand does get everywhere. Pine needles don't get into things in the same way.

She has pine needles in her hair because she was laying on the ground. Her vagina wasn't laying on the ground. The pine needles were't in her pubic hair. They were inside her body. Her labia had to be open and the pine needles had to get inside of her vagina. (Not her vulva; her vagina). He had to have placed them there or have been thrusting with a lot of force to get them there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope. Foreign object was dirt, pine needles and other stuff. They pulled it out of her at the hospital. Turner is a weirdo.

Are you serious?

If true, he has issues on multiple fronts. Very sick young man.

No the charge and conviction were for fingers. It was outside and messy, not deliberate, as PP is implying. Stick to what he was actually convicted of.

And you know that because you were there? And you were on the jury, so you know what the jury found?

As the owner of a vagina, I can't imagine how someone gets pine needles in it without them being deliberately placed there. There had to be a lot of force or a very deliberate action. That's not something that just happens.

I asked somebody that does rape kits and it does, just happen, when having sex outside.

Because there is thrusting when you have sex. It's a good bit of force and it's repetitive.

They weren't having sex, though. PP has been very insistent that they weren't having sex and that she wasn't raped.PP has been insisting that he was just fingering her. If he was fingering her hard enough to shove pine needles in her vagina, he was fisting her.

Are you sure you have a vagina? Have you ever been fingered properly? There is some force to it. Certainly if you have something on your fingers it will get pushed up in there.

How on earth did he have pine needles on his hands? Were they just stuck there with magic? How did he not notice that he had magic pine needles stuck all over his hands?

go have sex on a bed of pine needles and tell us how many are stuck to your body and are all up in the privates... you realize pine needles have sap on them.

Yeah, been there, done that. You aren't going to get pine needles INSIDE of your vagina from doing that. You might get them stuck to your rear end or in your hair or on your clothes, but they aren't going inside of your body.

[Anonymous]

agree it would be difficult to get pine needles IN your vag.

[Anonymous]

Go get your hand wet and sticky and then press it down in a bed of pine needles. See if any of them stick.

Voila!

[Anonymous]

If the prosecutor, judge, jury or probation officer had thought he had deliberately picked up pine needles and stuck them in there, instead of just using his fingers while outside, he would have been in a lot worse trouble. They didn't think that.