Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it crazy to think that the mother sub couldn’t have had some type of cable attached to the submersible? The submersible would have been found very quickly. There are already fiber optic cables spanning the oceans now. Maybe that type of cable could have been used?

Yeah, it's not clear to me why there isn't a tether. I'm guessing you'd need at least 50,000-70,000 feet of tether cable since the submersible doesn't go down in a straight line. A tether line could also double as a hardwired communications line.

However, I could envision the tether itself becoming a hazard. Could the submersible get tangled in the tether? Perhaps.

[Anonymous]

In the photo in this DM story, it looks like there are water droplets or condensation on the inside of the window. Is that normal?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12219589/Missing-Titans-sub-battery-suddenly-DRAINED-2022-Titanic-trip-cutting-expedition-short.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand if they had the foresight for all these options for it to come back to the surface, why wasn't there some sort of GPS, navigation system, heck idk air tag or walkie talkie so when it came back up it could be located or make contact with the outside world

They were allegedly using Musk's satellite to communicate. Something went wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once past the window of this being a rescue, I do not see the value in attempting to bring the Titan back to the surface.

Unless the families are willing to pay for the recovery efforts, it seems to me that it should be left where it is.

Anyone disagree? I’m interested in hearing the other side if so.

If they could figure out what went wrong perhaps they could solve that problem going forward. Isn't that one reason we investigate accidents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lawsuit the former safety inspector filed against this company is crazy. They all knew what would happen (see pages 9-12):

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.262471/gov.uscourts.wawd.262471.7.0.pdf


The money shots:

15. Lochridge primarily expressed concern regarding the lack of non-destructive testing performed on the hull of the Titan. Lochridge was repeatedly told that no scan of the hull or Bond Line could be done to check for delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull. Lochridge was told that no form of equipment existed to perform such a test, and OceanGate instead would rely solely on their acoustic monitoring system that they were going to install in the submersible to detect the start of hull break down when the submersible was about to fail.

16. Lochridge again expressed concern that this was problematic because this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail—often milliseconds before an implosion—and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull.

17. Given the prevalent flaws in the previously tested 1/3 scaled model, and the visible flaws in the carbon end samples for the Titan, Lochridge again stressed the potential danger to passengers of the Titan as the submersible reached extreme depths. The constant pressure cycling weakens existing flaws resulting in large tears of the carbon. Non-destructive testing was critical to detect such potentially existing flaws in order to ensure a solid and safe product for the safety of the passengers and crew.
...
19. At the meeting, Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department—the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters. Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to the experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (“PVHO”) standards. OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.

20. The paying passengers would not be aware, and would not be informed, of this experimental design, the lack of non-destructive testing of the hull, or that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible.

Based on the above, is it likely the vessel imploded from the pressure?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When would the oxygen be up? If they're bobbing on the surface, do they still need the oxygen reserves (sorry if this is a dumb q) or can they survive encapsulated for a while?

The O2 will run out, such a horrible design flaw. They could die while floating on top of the ocean.

Makes sense though. In order to withstand the pressures at 12,000 foot water depth, you'd want a smooth exterior surface to increase tensile strength. You can't have portholes or doors, as those would be weak points in the design that could fail under pressure. Even external attachment anchor points could compromise the tensile strength of the surface of the hull.

Are submarines designed so that the occupants are unable to exit? These people are locked in, it’s a torture chamber. God help them if they are floating on the ocean surface unable to escape.

Submarines don't go anywhere near this depth.

I know, but it seems to be a major design flaw to have the occupants locked in, unable to ever escape.

There's no where to escape to. It's safer for all to have a sealed in chamber.

Well, there are weights that they can release to get to the surface. So in theory, they could do that and then get out. Still no guarantee anyone would find them, of course, but even that isn't an option due to the design.

GPS would come in handy here. Assuming no failure in the electrical system.

GPS doesn't work 12,000 feet underwater. GPS requires line of sight to satellites in space orbiting our atmosphere. You lose line of sight to a satellite in the sky when you're at the bottom of the ocean.

You'd think the submersible would have some sort of beacon so it could be picked up by sonar. But if it imploded or electronics failed, the beacon would be shut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once past the window of this being a rescue, I do not see the value in attempting to bring the Titan back to the surface.

Unless the families are willing to pay for the recovery efforts, it seems to me that it should be left where it is.

Anyone disagree? I’m interested in hearing the other side if so.

If they could figure out what went wrong perhaps they could solve that problem going forward. Isn't that one reason we investigate accidents?

Don't do commercial trips to wreckage 12K feet under the surface of the ocean in unapproved vessels. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Imagine yourself in a minivan with four other adults in the deep depths of the ocean where you can’t see anything for days and probably are out of provisions and nowhere to use the toilet. You couldn’t pay me enough.

I got stuck (by myself and without a cellphone) in an elevator once for over an hour. That alone was enough to send me into a full blown panic. This sounds unimaginable. I just hope they're taking care of one another and that someone in the group is helping everyone stay as calm as possible until the end. The thought of being the last one alive is also horrifying.

The air quality must be terrible. How can you not panic in that situation with no communication with the outside world?

Stockton accepted the risk of this mission. He said so in an interview. You either come back up or you die if something goes wrong, so my guess is he's not panicking because he had already accepted his fate when he boarded that ship. You don't board it with any hesitation in mind, like what if this doesn't work out? You're thinking if this doesn't work out, then I accept my fate. Not sure if the others have that steel mentality even though they're adventurers and risk-takers and one even went to space. The Pakistani guy and his son--well, they're probably panicking because they sort of seemed along for the ride.

Impossible to know, but Stockton rush’s steel mentality is not going to be taken well by his fellow passengers. He is responsible for all of this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A vehicle the size of a mini-van with a bottle and Ziploc bags for a toilet. Viewing portal tested to 1400 meters’ depth and they were going down 14,000 feet. Controller made from a GameBoy.

The level of delusion involved in boarding this craft is shocking. It’s hard not to see it as a form of suicide.

Hadn’t it made successful trips before? I agree that it was obviously taking on huge risk, but they probably saw it had been done safely before.

Also, in general we trust that something like this won't be allowed to operate without some sufficient oversight. We trust this every time we get on an airplane or buy a new car, or get on a ride at an amusement park. We trust it when we participate in anything that, of course, has risks - but aren't there guardrails in place to prevent some yahoo from simply taking $250k from whoever wants to pay it and sending them 12,500 feet down without some sort of oversight and inspection?

Of course there can always be an accident, something can always go wrong - but is the system built to go wrong? I guess it turns out it is - but I don't think it's crazy for the people who bought their seats on this doomed ride to have believed that this insane company wouldn't have been allowed to do this unless someone without a financial stake in the company thought it was safe. I know this is an extreme case - but I just don't think you can blame the people who participated for not knowing how unregulated this turned out to be. Or accuse them of wanting to die.

This is just so horrific.

And the migrant boat sinking is also horrific. It's sort of the opposite end of the same spectrum. Though I don't know anyone thinks the migrant boats are safe - it's just the people willing to take them are that desperate.

I think this is the huge difference in wrapping my mind around these two events. I understand the risk of the migrants because they are in a disadvantaged position where the gamble may be worth it. I can also envision how a boat sinks.

But with the submersible, my brain is just trying to fathom the extreme darkness and pressure that deep in the ocean. I don’t understand the risk of very well off people wanting to get on something not well regulated. And just to see the titanic on a video monitor anyway. What is the bonus of being that far below the sea, just to say you did it? Seems reckless without much upside.

Completely agree - but wanted to add there is a portal they can look through at one end of the vessel but its small. I saw a photo somewhere of an individual who had done this trip before and the photo was like a selfie with his face and the portal showing the titanic.

A selfie? So they died for social media clout?

Plenty of people do these days. Selfie on a cliff top, selfie while operating machinery, climbing Everest to be able to brag about it... etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would the oxygen be up? If they're bobbing on the surface, do they still need the oxygen reserves (sorry if this is a dumb q) or can they survive encapsulated for a while?

The O2 will run out, such a horrible design flaw. They could die while floating on top of the ocean.

Makes sense though. In order to withstand the pressures at 12,000 foot water depth, you'd want a smooth exterior surface to increase tensile strength. You can't have portholes or doors, as those would be weak points in the design that could fail under pressure. Even external attachment anchor points could compromise the tensile strength of the surface of the hull.

Are submarines designed so that the occupants are unable to exit? These people are locked in, it’s a torture chamber. God help them if they are floating on the ocean surface unable to escape.

Submarines don't go anywhere near this depth.

I know, but it seems to be a major design flaw to have the occupants locked in, unable to ever escape.

There's no where to escape to. It's safer for all to have a sealed in chamber.

Well, there are weights that they can release to get to the surface. So in theory, they could do that and then get out. Still no guarantee anyone would find them, of course, but even that isn't an option due to the design.

GPS would come in handy here. Assuming no failure in the electrical system.

GPS doesn't work 12,000 feet underwater. GPS requires line of sight to satellites in space orbiting our atmosphere. You lose line of sight to a satellite in the sky when you're at the bottom of the ocean.

You'd think the submersible would have some sort of beacon so it could be picked up by sonar. But if it imploded or electronics failed, the beacon would be shut off.

Right, but if they come back and are bobbing on the surface, waiting to be found...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would the oxygen be up? If they're bobbing on the surface, do they still need the oxygen reserves (sorry if this is a dumb q) or can they survive encapsulated for a while?

The O2 will run out, such a horrible design flaw. They could die while floating on top of the ocean.

Makes sense though. In order to withstand the pressures at 12,000 foot water depth, you'd want a smooth exterior surface to increase tensile strength. You can't have portholes or doors, as those would be weak points in the design that could fail under pressure. Even external attachment anchor points could compromise the tensile strength of the surface of the hull.

Are submarines designed so that the occupants are unable to exit? These people are locked in, it’s a torture chamber. God help them if they are floating on the ocean surface unable to escape.

Submarines don't go anywhere near this depth.

I know, but it seems to be a major design flaw to have the occupants locked in, unable to ever escape.

There's no where to escape to. It's safer for all to have a sealed in chamber.

Well, there are weights that they can release to get to the surface. So in theory, they could do that and then get out. Still no guarantee anyone would find them, of course, but even that isn't an option due to the design.

GPS would come in handy here. Assuming no failure in the electrical system.

GPS doesn't work 12,000 feet underwater. GPS requires line of sight to satellites in space orbiting our atmosphere. You lose line of sight to a satellite in the sky when you're at the bottom of the ocean.

You'd think the submersible would have some sort of beacon so it could be picked up by sonar. But if it imploded or electronics failed, the beacon would be shut off.

Right, but if they come back and are bobbing on the surface, waiting to be found...

The delusion here is astronomical. This man knew that if the vessel failed, it would be via implosion. He had already been sued about it. He spent no time thinking about bobbing on the surface and neither should you.

[Anonymous]

I’m angry that hundreds of millions of people are being potentially traumatized by this awful incident as the world watches them die via 24/7 media coverage.

I’m angry about the massive waste of resources from the common wealth that is being expended on this pointless effort to rescue incredibly foolhardy billionaires and con artists. It’s way beyond the value of 5 individual lives and the fact that it is being done is just another manifestation of human frailty and more hubris.

I’ll be glad when this story is gone from the front pages of everything. Hopefully by the weekend. May the adventurers RIP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it crazy to think that the mother sub couldn’t have had some type of cable attached to the submersible? The submersible would have been found very quickly. There are already fiber optic cables spanning the oceans now. Maybe that type of cable could have been used?

It’s not crazy, but if you think about the dimensions of the dive, it doesn’t make sense. To reach the titanic, the titan sub has to dive 2.4 miles. 2.4 miles of any type of cable is very heavy to transport and would create an enormous amount of drag, which would drain the batteries. It could also get snagged. It wasn’t feasible for such a deep dive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine yourself in a minivan with four other adults in the deep depths of the ocean where you can’t see anything for days and probably are out of provisions and nowhere to use the toilet. You couldn’t pay me enough.

I got stuck (by myself and without a cellphone) in an elevator once for over an hour. That alone was enough to send me into a full blown panic. This sounds unimaginable. I just hope they're taking care of one another and that someone in the group is helping everyone stay as calm as possible until the end. The thought of being the last one alive is also horrifying.

The air quality must be terrible. How can you not panic in that situation with no communication with the outside world?

Stockton accepted the risk of this mission. He said so in an interview. You either come back up or you die if something goes wrong, so my guess is he's not panicking because he had already accepted his fate when he boarded that ship. You don't board it with any hesitation in mind, like what if this doesn't work out? You're thinking if this doesn't work out, then I accept my fate. Not sure if the others have that steel mentality even though they're adventurers and risk-takers and one even went to space. The Pakistani guy and his son--well, they're probably panicking because they sort of seemed along for the ride.

Impossible to know, but Stockton rush’s steel mentality is not going to be taken well by his fellow passengers. He is responsible for all of this.

I’ve been wondering how that has played out. Have they been yelling at him? Asking him about every possibility? Questioning his judgment and feeling he lead them to their deaths? Tensions must be really high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m angry that hundreds of millions of people are being potentially traumatized by this awful incident as the world watches them die via 24/7 media coverage.

I’m angry about the massive waste of resources from the common wealth that is being expended on this pointless effort to rescue incredibly foolhardy billionaires and con artists. It’s way beyond the value of 5 individual lives and the fact that it is being done is just another manifestation of human frailty and more hubris.

I’ll be glad when this story is gone from the front pages of everything. Hopefully by the weekend. May the adventurers RIP.

+1000