Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm was a sahm and am totally secure in my choice. I don't judge working women at all—in fact my own amazing mom put me in daycare from early infancy. But I truly, deeply wish more American could children delay daycare and enjoy higher-quality care as they do in peer nations. It sounds disingenuous to all the vipers on here but that's honestly my agenda. And I hate that caring about kids is somehow anti-feminist or right-wing. (Also, every OT, ST, PT, etc. I have seen with my children feels the same way about early childhood.)

Sometimes you have to move beyond your defensiveness and see the bigger picture. For example: I wasn't able to breastfeed. I loathed and resented the lactivists for their arrogance and meddling and felt enormous guilt (this was back when this was *the* hot issue). BUT even I can acknowledge that the lactivist movement probably helped millions of children enjoy healthier, happier lives. It's not always about our egos.

The bolded claims need sources because they sound a lot like opinions.

If you’re referring to “peer nations” as Western Europe, I work with a ton of Western Europeans and even lived there for a time. Americans glamorize and romanticize the parental leave but it’s a major f’ing problem for their economies and, it’s not so straightforward that every mom stays home for free for ____ months/years (fill in the blank with whatever myth based number you want)

As for breast feeding, surely you know the very same countries you put on a pedestal for this free SAHM child care system (that doesn’t exist) also rely extremely heavily on formula.

This is so true and rarely acknowledged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People should live their life without major regrets. That is what I did. I hope all of you did too.

Yes, and without the need to bring someone else down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most sahm who aren’t wealthy (still the majority) would openly admit they wished job reentry was easier or that both parents had European style leave options.

The problem is that most wohm will not admit anything is wrong because doing so suggests their own child was in a less-than-ideal setup. They need to give an inch and admit that these choices we’re left with are bad for children and for most mothers!

There is no reason why a typical professional woman shouldn’t be able to take a year off (keeping current with occasional shifts if necessary) each kid and re-enter. None. Same for dads. But it will take bridging this enormous gap and working together.

This ignores the fact that if you want to be home with a child until age 1, you likely want to be home for many years. Most women who stay home with babies are NOT interested in returning to work when the child turns one.

The reality is that the majority of mothers in America want a strong economy so they don’t have to work at all.

Most American women don’t want the government to pay them $300 a week to stay home with their babies and then return at year one or two. Most women either don’t want to work at all for many years, or they value their career and prefer to work than stay home.

European parental leave is a result of many cultural differences and structural factors such as

- lower wages that require a woman to receive government assistance to stay home with a baby

- generous government services that would typically pay for childcare and it is less expensive to pay a woman $250 a week to stay home

- sexist societies that expect women to take years off work to stay home with kids but then expects them to return to work

-cultures where even wealthy women have separate finances from their spouses and are not provided for after birth so the government has to step in

I could go on….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say, I was significantly more open to SAHP for my next child until reading this thread. The train of thought that leads one to believe that it’s an absolute truth that SAHP is superior to daycare is so twisted and unfounded that it’s been a real awakening to me that it’s not a perspective I subscribe to at all. Imagine thinking the only way to do something well, is to be the only one doing it. I alone can fix it!! The arrogance, self-centered ness, and unfounded confidence for people who have experience doing this, 0, 1, or at best 2 times in their lives? They think this experience puts them as better than anything else? Wow!!

It’s funny because we moved to an area that a lot of posters on here love to put down. But we have excellent early childhood education from 0-12 years old. Apparently, all that big city living that you value so much comes with some drawbacks when it comes to finding quality child care?

There are so many ways to do things correctly! Just because you picked something that works for you, doesn’t make it “best” or the “only”way or even better. It’s just the way you picked.

Unless you’re going to be able to produce a large population study showing kids who were the product of a SAHM have lower incidence of mental health, higher performers athletically, academically, and professionally, lower incidence of drug and alcohol abuse, and lower rates of committing crimes than kids who didn’t, I’m not interested in your theories.

It’s just a choice. Stop being so damned insecure about it.

Lady, if you don’t want to stay home with your next kid then don’t. If you do want to stay home, the stay home.

Stop expecting all the other women of the world to do your thinking for you. Talk about insecure, JFC.

*whoooooosh*

Whoosh nothing. Dummy said she was open to staying home before she read this thread, but has now decided every single SAHM on the planet is some combination of stupid/AH so now she’s maybe NOT going to stay home (probably stomped her foot, too) because she doesn’t want to be associated with the arrogant train of thought that might lead a woman to think she is the most qualified person to take care of the baby she grew in her own body.

Basically, this lady’s post was an incoherent, rambling, scattershot mess. I don’t know how to approximate that sound, but it’s not something on target going over my head…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not offended by anything a woman who doesn’t work says to be honest. I subconsciously trust the judgment of my friends who are doctors/software engineers (yes these are all women) over the opinions of my SAHM friends. I’m not proud of this and would never admit it to anyone but it’s the truth.

I know, right? It’s like, when my retired professor parents try to give me advice, or even just their opinions on some current event, I’m like teehee, you don’t even wOrK fOr PaY anymore!! What could you possibly have to offer?!

(Also, just FYI, the fact that you are able to state in no uncertain terms that your trust the judgement of your working friends more means that it is not actually subconscious.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not offended by anything a woman who doesn’t work says to be honest. I subconsciously trust the judgment of my friends who are doctors/software engineers (yes these are all women) over the opinions of my SAHM friends. I’m not proud of this and would never admit it to anyone but it’s the truth.

I know, right? It’s like, when my retired professor parents try to give me advice, or even just their opinions on some current event, I’m like teehee, you don’t even wOrK fOr PaY anymore!! What could you possibly have to offer?!

(Also, just FYI, the fact that you are able to state in no uncertain terms that your trust the judgement of your working friends more means that it is not actually subconscious.)

By subconscious I meant that my mind goes there unbidden, but I guess you’re right. I was raised by a SAHM who instilled so much drive in myself and my sister and she is so proud that we are working moms. What she doesn’t know is that years of intellectually stimulating work made me judgmental of anyone who isn’t a knowledge worker. Your retired professor parents have decades on knowledge work under their belt so not a good comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not offended by anything a woman who doesn’t work says to be honest. I subconsciously trust the judgment of my friends who are doctors/software engineers (yes these are all women) over the opinions of my SAHM friends. I’m not proud of this and would never admit it to anyone but it’s the truth.

I know, right? It’s like, when my retired professor parents try to give me advice, or even just their opinions on some current event, I’m like teehee, you don’t even wOrK fOr PaY anymore!! What could you possibly have to offer?!

(Also, just FYI, the fact that you are able to state in no uncertain terms that your trust the judgement of your working friends more means that it is not actually subconscious.)

By subconscious I meant that my mind goes there unbidden, but I guess you’re right. I was raised by a SAHM who instilled so much drive in myself and my sister and she is so proud that we are working moms. What she doesn’t know is that years of intellectually stimulating work made me judgmental of anyone who isn’t a knowledge worker. Your retired professor parents have decades on knowledge work under their belt so not a good comparison.

So you’re also judgmental of your own mother?

Also, you have no idea how many years of knowledge work a retired professor has versus how many years of knowledge work a SAHM has. (e.g. you don’t know age at retirement, you don’t know how long they were professors before retirement, etc.)

I worked as an engineer for almost two decades before staying home. If I’m an idiot now as a SAHM, I was an idiot before when I was doing complex work and making critical decisions for my company and clients. (Because I still have the same brain and overall capabilities.) But you would have valued my opinion when I was working simply because I was receiving a paycheck.

I’m curious what kind of knowledge work you do, because I believe your bias against those who are not “knowledge workers” could be picked apart in week one of an introductory logic course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not offended by anything a woman who doesn’t work says to be honest. I subconsciously trust the judgment of my friends who are doctors/software engineers (yes these are all women) over the opinions of my SAHM friends. I’m not proud of this and would never admit it to anyone but it’s the truth.

I know, right? It’s like, when my retired professor parents try to give me advice, or even just their opinions on some current event, I’m like teehee, you don’t even wOrK fOr PaY anymore!! What could you possibly have to offer?!

(Also, just FYI, the fact that you are able to state in no uncertain terms that your trust the judgement of your working friends more means that it is not actually subconscious.)

By subconscious I meant that my mind goes there unbidden, but I guess you’re right. I was raised by a SAHM who instilled so much drive in myself and my sister and she is so proud that we are working moms. What she doesn’t know is that years of intellectually stimulating work made me judgmental of anyone who isn’t a knowledge worker. Your retired professor parents have decades on knowledge work under their belt so not a good comparison.

So you’re also judgmental of your own mother?

Also, you have no idea how many years of knowledge work a retired professor has versus how many years of knowledge work a SAHM has. (e.g. you don’t know age at retirement, you don’t know how long they were professors before retirement, etc.)

I worked as an engineer for almost two decades before staying home. If I’m an idiot now as a SAHM, I was an idiot before when I was doing complex work and making critical decisions for my company and clients. (Because I still have the same brain and overall capabilities.) But you would have valued my opinion when I was working simply because I was receiving a paycheck.

I’m curious what kind of knowledge work you do, because I believe your bias against those who are not “knowledge workers” could be picked apart in week one of an introductory logic course.

My sister and I have a more complex perspective than our mother, and it’s something we always tease her about. Like I said, she is so proud of us (more so my sister because she is a cancer researcher!) that being offended over that isn’t something that would cross her mind.

You judge me for my bias against knowledge workers, but you were one yourself, you married one (I’m sure you definitely didn’t marry a construction worker) and you are probably doing everything in your power to help your children excel at school. I will not disclose my area of expertise but it’s fascinating, at least to me, and requires a lot of thinking that has me constantly reevaluating other areas of my life as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm was a sahm and am totally secure in my choice. I don't judge working women at all—in fact my own amazing mom put me in daycare from early infancy. But I truly, deeply wish more American could children delay daycare and enjoy higher-quality care as they do in peer nations. It sounds disingenuous to all the vipers on here but that's honestly my agenda. And I hate that caring about kids is somehow anti-feminist or right-wing. (Also, every OT, ST, PT, etc. I have seen with my children feels the same way about early childhood.)

Sometimes you have to move beyond your defensiveness and see the bigger picture. For example: I wasn't able to breastfeed. I loathed and resented the lactivists for their arrogance and meddling and felt enormous guilt (this was back when this was *the* hot issue). BUT even I can acknowledge that the lactivist movement probably helped millions of children enjoy healthier, happier lives. It's not always about our egos.

The bolded claims need sources because they sound a lot like opinions.

If you’re referring to “peer nations” as Western Europe, I work with a ton of Western Europeans and even lived there for a time. Americans glamorize and romanticize the parental leave but it’s a major f’ing problem for their economies and, it’s not so straightforward that every mom stays home for free for ____ months/years (fill in the blank with whatever myth based number you want)

As for breast feeding, surely you know the very same countries you put on a pedestal for this free SAHM child care system (that doesn’t exist) also rely extremely heavily on formula.

This is so true and rarely acknowledged.

It’s not free ____ months for mom…. It’s free for mom and dad.

Always quick to deny dad his parenting do weird.

You’re completely wrong about the economy… it increases the labor force, increases productivity, increases retention, is good for health, decreases reliance on public assistance … all good for the economy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say, I was significantly more open to SAHP for my next child until reading this thread. The train of thought that leads one to believe that it’s an absolute truth that SAHP is superior to daycare is so twisted and unfounded that it’s been a real awakening to me that it’s not a perspective I subscribe to at all. Imagine thinking the only way to do something well, is to be the only one doing it. I alone can fix it!! The arrogance, self-centered ness, and unfounded confidence for people who have experience doing this, 0, 1, or at best 2 times in their lives? They think this experience puts them as better than anything else? Wow!!

It’s funny because we moved to an area that a lot of posters on here love to put down. But we have excellent early childhood education from 0-12 years old. Apparently, all that big city living that you value so much comes with some drawbacks when it comes to finding quality child care?

There are so many ways to do things correctly! Just because you picked something that works for you, doesn’t make it “best” or the “only”way or even better. It’s just the way you picked.

Unless you’re going to be able to produce a large population study showing kids who were the product of a SAHM have lower incidence of mental health, higher performers athletically, academically, and professionally, lower incidence of drug and alcohol abuse, and lower rates of committing crimes than kids who didn’t, I’m not interested in your theories.

It’s just a choice. Stop being so damned insecure about it.

Lady, if you don’t want to stay home with your next kid then don’t. If you do want to stay home, the stay home.

Stop expecting all the other women of the world to do your thinking for you. Talk about insecure, JFC.

*whoooooosh*

Whoosh nothing. Dummy said she was open to staying home before she read this thread, but has now decided every single SAHM on the planet is some combination of stupid/AH so now she’s maybe NOT going to stay home (probably stomped her foot, too) because she doesn’t want to be associated with the arrogant train of thought that might lead a woman to think she is the most qualified person to take care of the baby she grew in her own body.

Basically, this lady’s post was an incoherent, rambling, scattershot mess. I don’t know how to approximate that sound, but it’s not something on target going over my head…

She also thinks a 3 month old needs to be in an education center and that is better for their development than being at home with a loving caregiver they can develop a secure attachment to, and fewer people while their immune system develops. This is someone who knows nothing about child development. There are a few of those on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My mom went back to work full time when I was less than two months old. My dad also worked full time. I had a combinations of nannies and then preschool before starting elementary school. It would never occur to me to say that I was raised by anyone besides my parents.

That's a pretty rude attitude toward child care providers.

and teachers... clearly your children are being "raised" by teachers.

They are. It’s why schools are so important.

So you are not raising your children after all.

Not alone, no, and none of us are. It’s good to realize that so we fully appreciate the people around us molding the next generation of young people. As parents we do our best, but are NOT the sole influencers, nor should that be the goal.

That’s not the definition of “raise”.

My neighbor isn’t raising my child simply because they had a play date there once.

Disagree. I absolutely think teachers who spend a significant amount of time with my kids (not just your neighbor’s one playdate) are helping to raise my kids.

So OP is not raising her own kids?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

This is why many people can't just get a job once their child is school age. It's cheaper and less stress to just have one parent on-call for all the p.i.t.a. kid related issues, especially if the other parent is a high earner. If we both worked, we have literally nobody to cover all the days when kids aren't in school and need care at home. I don't care who looks down on it. Half the families at my school have a SAHP because they have the same problem. Preschool is so few hours during the week we skipped it for all the children and just taught them to read and write and do math at home before they started K, also saved a lot of money there.

Before I had kids and was working, I didn't really feel I was doing anything all that important. So many of these jobs that people think are high status will be replaced by automation and AI. Might as well raise your kids and let the status obsessed folks do their thing.

And yet tons of working parents have figured out how to work and be able to care for their kids on sick days, etc. Sorry you couldn't, but that doesn't mean others can't.

Tons of parents have figured out how to care for their kids without needing two incomes. Sorry you couldn’t, but that doesn’t mean others can’t.

Some of us want our kids to be raised by both parents. Sorry all your husband can do is make money.

Please explain your logic.

If I work 40 hours per week and my husband works 40 hours per week, then we are both raising the kids, right? But according to you, if I work 0 hours per week and my husband works 40 hours per week, then he is no longer raising the kids?

Go to the relationship forum and talk to the women there whose h’s work too much, work 60 hours a week, get home after bedtime, work weekends, travel, are gone 10-12 hours a day are never home, never help, don’t know the teachers names, etc.

They can explain it to you.

Not according to me, according to OP anybody who works isn’t raising their kids. My H and I stagger our schedule and we both are raising our children

So… you’ve got nothing. Color me shocked.

(Also, are all of the women complaining about workaholic husbands SAHMs? In THIS area? You’re conflating two separate issues.)

So I explained it and you still don’t get it.

Not shocked.

I still think the best thing for kids is to have a dad who is heavily involved in their care.

You didn’t explain anything. You “answered” my question about a 40 hour per week job by vaguely pointing “over there” where some guys work 60 hours! Not relevant.

My husband works the *exact same* 40 hour per week job now that he did before I quit. He is actually able to be MORE involved with the kids because I get all those pesky chores done during the week so he can just work, then come home and be 100% on as Dad.

So which is it you spend tons of hours doing chores or you spend all that time with your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not rocket science. What would a child want if he or she could choose? It doesn’t mean the alternative is horrible. But no child would choose separation at 3 months or even 12 months. The problem is kids have no lobby, no voice.

My child would choose to eat ice cream for every meal. So I should do that too?

Poor analogy. Ice cream every meal is unhealthy. Having a loving, caring SAHM is not.

It’s not a poor analogy at all. Who cares what a kid would advocate for if they had a voice? And if you think it’s a bad analogy, you’re also saying it doesn’t matter what the kid wants (the kid definitely wants ice cream). The parent is making the decision in the end… you said kids have no voice and no one to lobby “for them” as if it mattered?

And, please, show me convincing outcomes based evidence that a “loving, caring, SAHM” is superior to not staying at home.

I'm the PP above this, but not the PP above that. I didn't say that a loving caring SAHM is superior to not staying home. But if a woman desires it, and a child desires it, and its possible for the family, I don't know why any family would not choose it if they could. I'm very thankful that it worked out for us, and for that my husband will have my eternal gratitude.

How the F does a 6 month old desire a SAHP vs a working parent? Seriously. How deluded are you that you think there’s some complex cost/benefit analysis being done by a newborn?

I guess yours never cried when you left?

It’s when they cry being picked up that really is the issue with insecure people. They get friends and love being there and eventually they are sad when they have to leave their friends.

But eventually they learn.. oh I’ll see mom later, oh I’ll see my friend tomorrow and they learn how to regulate emotions, get along with others, not have separation anxiety.


Kids cry the 1st day of K so do you just tell them they don’t have to go to school. Kids cry when they lose a game, do you let them win every game?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say, I was significantly more open to SAHP for my next child until reading this thread. The train of thought that leads one to believe that it’s an absolute truth that SAHP is superior to daycare is so twisted and unfounded that it’s been a real awakening to me that it’s not a perspective I subscribe to at all. Imagine thinking the only way to do something well, is to be the only one doing it. I alone can fix it!! The arrogance, self-centered ness, and unfounded confidence for people who have experience doing this, 0, 1, or at best 2 times in their lives? They think this experience puts them as better than anything else? Wow!!

It’s funny because we moved to an area that a lot of posters on here love to put down. But we have excellent early childhood education from 0-12 years old. Apparently, all that big city living that you value so much comes with some drawbacks when it comes to finding quality child care?

There are so many ways to do things correctly! Just because you picked something that works for you, doesn’t make it “best” or the “only”way or even better. It’s just the way you picked.

Unless you’re going to be able to produce a large population study showing kids who were the product of a SAHM have lower incidence of mental health, higher performers athletically, academically, and professionally, lower incidence of drug and alcohol abuse, and lower rates of committing crimes than kids who didn’t, I’m not interested in your theories.

It’s just a choice. Stop being so damned insecure about it.

Lady, if you don’t want to stay home with your next kid then don’t. If you do want to stay home, the stay home.

Stop expecting all the other women of the world to do your thinking for you. Talk about insecure, JFC.

*whoooooosh*

Whoosh nothing. Dummy said she was open to staying home before she read this thread, but has now decided every single SAHM on the planet is some combination of stupid/AH so now she’s maybe NOT going to stay home (probably stomped her foot, too) because she doesn’t want to be associated with the arrogant train of thought that might lead a woman to think she is the most qualified person to take care of the baby she grew in her own body.

Basically, this lady’s post was an incoherent, rambling, scattershot mess. I don’t know how to approximate that sound, but it’s not something on target going over my head…

She also thinks a 3 month old needs to be in an education center and that is better for their development than being at home with a loving caregiver they can develop a secure attachment to, and fewer people while their immune system develops. This is someone who knows nothing about child development. There are a few of those on this thread.

Actually I think it’s better for kids to be attached to more than 1 adult.

Their dad … their mom … and they can spend a few hours away from them both without disrupting that attachment which helps them NOT have attachment anxiety.

It’s better than 1 caregiver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not offended by anything a woman who doesn’t work says to be honest. I subconsciously trust the judgment of my friends who are doctors/software engineers (yes these are all women) over the opinions of my SAHM friends. I’m not proud of this and would never admit it to anyone but it’s the truth.

I don't think you are really a friend to the SAHMs in your orbit. You can just tell them what you think.