Looks like a new Gaza war has started

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10/18/2023 12:04

Subject: Re:Looks like a new Gaza war has started

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Anonymous wrote:Such guilt and self-hate, and such contrarianism, that privileged white Americans are siding with terrorist organizations supported by the likes of Russia, Iran and North Korea. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads of their ass-s and deal with reality.

Such continued racism and hate for Arabs and POC that privileged white Americans are siding with a terrorist state that supports apartheid and genocide of over 2 million people, while oppressing other religious minorities under a fascist state. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads out of their ass-s and deal with reality.

The right wing, fanatical, neo-fascist hate came from Hamas.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting how fairly Israel has treated Arabs and Muslims in the past. Like citizens with equal rights.
There's a reason that former colonies, oppressed countries and formerly enslaved people across the globe are for a Free Palestine. This struggle has played out before.

Israel does treat Israeli Arabs and Muslims as citizens with equal rights.
And you're wrong about who supports a free Palestine. It's largely privileged white westerners who hate themselves so much that they want to live under a caliphate.
Are you really blind to the fact that countries like India are vehemently pro Israel, while white Britons are in the streets screaming about gassing Jews?

You are clearly white. I read a lot of news from Latin America and the newspapers do not read like here. And the VAST majority of supporters of Palestinian rights are Arabs, Muslims, and POC - not white folks. IF there were more white people, the needle may move in favor but it has not. I don't think you know much about the movement at all. Question, do you have an Arab or Muslim friends? Friends with any latinos?

And yes, India has long been anti-Muslim. I mean, Modi. Come on. It's also why so many Indians voted Trump. Or did you not know there was an India-Pakistan rift?

DP. I follow Latin American news in Spanish and I disagree with your characterization entirely. There is simply not this universal support for Palestinians in Latin America that you are implying. In fact there is a great deal of distrust because of historic religious tension. Of course there is distrust of Israel too. But your characterization here is both inaccurate and misleading.

there is nothing misleading about the statement. I said that the "newspapers do not read like here", which is 100% on point. Folha de São Paulo has given far more even handed reporting than anything in US media. There were fights in the Brazilian parliament yesterday over the hospital bombings, and Lula has long been a supporter of Palestinian rights. Of course, Argentina is very pro-Israel because of the large Jewish population but other countries have been in firm Palestinian camps. You must not read enough because Colombia has now threatened to eject all Israeli diplomats, with Ecuador looking to condemn the same. VZ is clearly not a fan of Israel and Bolivia has followed suit.

I have no idea what you are reading in Latin America but you clearly aren't up to speed.

You are cherry-picking individual pieces of news to paint a picture that overall isn’t there. There simply is no large ground swell of support for the Palestinians among the populations of Latin America, which is was the point of your original post. There are some governments which are taking cautious positions one way or the other, but most aren’t taking a stand one way or the other.

It’s disingenuous to take the position that there is significant support for the Palestinians in most Latin American countries. There is not. The fact is most people in those countries do not care one way or the other. They don’t consider it their business, and they think they are both crazy. There is both antisemitism and Islamophobia in many countries in Latin America. And they’ve got their own problems to deal with.

I believe you are reading news, but you are not painting an accurate picture. Though perhaps you are only reading Folha, which could explain the disconnect. If you are solely getting your news from Folha, I could see the gap in information.

You have completely misrepresented everything that I said to create your own talking points. Once again, I said that news media in LA painted a very different picture from US media, which is 100% true. And the fact that the Colombian and Brazilian presidents support a liberated Palestine is a big deal. Why you overlook that is beyond me. It is not news that VZ, Bolivia and Cuba would support this but for Colombia, Brazil and to some extend Ecuador is major news. Most HR orgs in Latin America also support a free Palestine, as there is affinity with their own causes. But you are correct in that most religious right organizations side with US evangelicals in their support for Israel and dislike of Muslims.

And most Hispanic orgs in the US that I work with overwhelmingly support the plight of Palestinians but that is because we work with refugees and immigrants.

Oh. You are conflating your leftist circles and organizations with the population as a whole. Well, that explains your misinformation. I am quite certain that yes, leftist organizations in Latin America support Palestinians, like leftist organizations in many countries. But as in many countries, leftist organizations in Latin America are distanced from the general population. This is a common organizational failure of both left- and right-wing organizations; they surround themselves with like-minded people and convince themselves that they are fully representative.

If you so convinced of the enormous support for the Palestinian cause in Latin America, how do you think the general population would react to sending military support to Palestine? Do you think the general population in, say, Ecuador would be okay with their sons in the Ejército Ecuatoriano dying to support Palestine?

I believe that leftist organizations are loud and you think they are representative but if you believe there is deep and widespread support for the Palestinian cause across Latin America, you are badly deluded.

You have once again conflated everything that I have said. I said that the newspapers in Latin America "do not read like here" and there is far MORE support among Latinos than white folks like yourself who believe in full blown apartheid and genocide. And no, Latin America does not send troops anywhere but they are against colonialism - even Argentina (Hello, Malvinas). I also said that the vast majority of supporters for Palestine were POC, which is still true despite your inability to prove otherwise. And yes, the governments of Latin America are largely more supportive of a free Palestine than the US because they understand what oppression looks like. But sure, I'm going to have some white lady dictate to me what I said about my work with my population in my field of expertise. And then you accuse me of being a leftist. Right on freaking queue. White ladies know above everyone else? Have you sucked enough air out of the room yet?

When you start lashing out with race-based misogyny, you know you’ve lost the argument. I did find it interesting how you assumed my gender and race, even though you know I consume Latin American news. Going to identity-based attempted insults (which don’t work for me because unlike you, I don’t consider “white lady” an epithet) means you’ve lost the argument.

Anyhow, you’re just coming across as ignorant at this point, and you’re angry that your lies have been caught out. I don’t need to spend further time dismantling an irrational person. Have a good day and try having an actual conversation in Spanish with someone who isn’t in your NGO some day.