Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Biden just said he has a deal with the Israelis to allow aid to flow into Gaza from Egypt.

What do the pro-Hamas people say now?

[Anonymous]

From the NYTimes:

American officials say they have multiple strands of intelligence — including infrared satellite data — indicating that the deadly blast at a Gaza hospital on Tuesday was caused by Palestinian fighters.

The intelligence includes satellite and other infrared data showing a launch of a rocket or missile from Palestinian fighter positions within Gaza. American intelligence agencies have also analyzed open-source video of the launch showing that it did not come from the direction of Israeli military positions, the officials said. Israeli officials have also provided the United States with intercepts of Hamas officials saying the strike came from forces aligned with Palestinian militant groups.

“While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open-source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,” said Adrienne Watson, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council.

Other U.S. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive information, cautioned that the analysis was preliminary and that they were continuing to collect and analyze evidence. Multiple officials said the evidence gathered so far refutes claims that Israeli forces were responsible for the blast and was strong enough for President Biden to make comments supporting Israel’s account of events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden just said he has a deal with the Israelis to allow aid to flow into Gaza from Egypt.

What do the pro-Hamas people say now?

No one here is pro-Hamas.

Are you disappointed that some civilians won’t die? You seem a little agitated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such guilt and self-hate, and such contrarianism, that privileged white Americans are siding with terrorist organizations supported by the likes of Russia, Iran and North Korea. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads of their ass-s and deal with reality.

Such continued racism and hate for Arabs and POC that privileged white Americans are siding with a terrorist state that supports apartheid and genocide of over 2 million people, while oppressing other religious minorities under a fascist state. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads out of their ass-s and deal with reality.

The right wing, fanatical, neo-fascist hate came from Hamas.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting how fairly Israel has treated Arabs and Muslims in the past. Like citizens with equal rights.
There's a reason that former colonies, oppressed countries and formerly enslaved people across the globe are for a Free Palestine. This struggle has played out before.

Israel does treat Israeli Arabs and Muslims as citizens with equal rights.
And you're wrong about who supports a free Palestine. It's largely privileged white westerners who hate themselves so much that they want to live under a caliphate.
Are you really blind to the fact that countries like India are vehemently pro Israel, while white Britons are in the streets screaming about gassing Jews?

You are clearly white. I read a lot of news from Latin America and the newspapers do not read like here. And the VAST majority of supporters of Palestinian rights are Arabs, Muslims, and POC - not white folks. IF there were more white people, the needle may move in favor but it has not. I don't think you know much about the movement at all. Question, do you have an Arab or Muslim friends? Friends with any latinos?

And yes, India has long been anti-Muslim. I mean, Modi. Come on. It's also why so many Indians voted Trump. Or did you not know there was an India-Pakistan rift?

DP. I follow Latin American news in Spanish and I disagree with your characterization entirely. There is simply not this universal support for Palestinians in Latin America that you are implying. In fact there is a great deal of distrust because of historic religious tension. Of course there is distrust of Israel too. But your characterization here is both inaccurate and misleading.

there is nothing misleading about the statement. I said that the "newspapers do not read like here", which is 100% on point. Folha de São Paulo has given far more even handed reporting than anything in US media. There were fights in the Brazilian parliament yesterday over the hospital bombings, and Lula has long been a supporter of Palestinian rights. Of course, Argentina is very pro-Israel because of the large Jewish population but other countries have been in firm Palestinian camps. You must not read enough because Colombia has now threatened to eject all Israeli diplomats, with Ecuador looking to condemn the same. VZ is clearly not a fan of Israel and Bolivia has followed suit.

I have no idea what you are reading in Latin America but you clearly aren't up to speed.

You are cherry-picking individual pieces of news to paint a picture that overall isn’t there. There simply is no large ground swell of support for the Palestinians among the populations of Latin America, which is was the point of your original post. There are some governments which are taking cautious positions one way or the other, but most aren’t taking a stand one way or the other.

It’s disingenuous to take the position that there is significant support for the Palestinians in most Latin American countries. There is not. The fact is most people in those countries do not care one way or the other. They don’t consider it their business, and they think they are both crazy. There is both antisemitism and Islamophobia in many countries in Latin America. And they’ve got their own problems to deal with.

I believe you are reading news, but you are not painting an accurate picture. Though perhaps you are only reading Folha, which could explain the disconnect. If you are solely getting your news from Folha, I could see the gap in information.

You have completely misrepresented everything that I said to create your own talking points. Once again, I said that news media in LA painted a very different picture from US media, which is 100% true. And the fact that the Colombian and Brazilian presidents support a liberated Palestine is a big deal. Why you overlook that is beyond me. It is not news that VZ, Bolivia and Cuba would support this but for Colombia, Brazil and to some extend Ecuador is major news. Most HR orgs in Latin America also support a free Palestine, as there is affinity with their own causes. But you are correct in that most religious right organizations side with US evangelicals in their support for Israel and dislike of Muslims.

And most Hispanic orgs in the US that I work with overwhelmingly support the plight of Palestinians but that is because we work with refugees and immigrants.

Oh. You are conflating your leftist circles and organizations with the population as a whole. Well, that explains your misinformation. I am quite certain that yes, leftist organizations in Latin America support Palestinians, like leftist organizations in many countries. But as in many countries, leftist organizations in Latin America are distanced from the general population. This is a common organizational failure of both left- and right-wing organizations; they surround themselves with like-minded people and convince themselves that they are fully representative.

If you so convinced of the enormous support for the Palestinian cause in Latin America, how do you think the general population would react to sending military support to Palestine? Do you think the general population in, say, Ecuador would be okay with their sons in the Ejército Ecuatoriano dying to support Palestine?

I believe that leftist organizations are loud and you think they are representative but if you believe there is deep and widespread support for the Palestinian cause across Latin America, you are badly deluded.

Do you think US conservatives or the general population will support US troop fighting for Israel? You are delusional. Biden would be impeached immediately if he commits any US troop to combat for Israel. The US has no treaty or moral obligation to Israel. None!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden just said he has a deal with the Israelis to allow aid to flow into Gaza from Egypt.

What do the pro-Hamas people say now?

No one here is pro-Hamas.

Are you disappointed that some civilians won’t die? You seem a little agitated.

Well, what do the “Israel is committing genocide” people saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden just said he has a deal with the Israelis to allow aid to flow into Gaza from Egypt.

What do the pro-Hamas people say now?

Nobody on this thread is pro-Hamas. I personally am anti-Hamas and also anti-Israeli war crimes.

I say that this is a very good thing, it's unfortunate that it took so long (and pressure from the U.S. president) for the Israeli government to allow this, and that I hope Israel honors this deal in good faith. I also hope and pray that Hamas does not hijack or otherwise commandeer this aid, because Palestinian civilians badly need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11am and MSNBC has a chyron saying "Hundreds killed in Gaza hospital blast" - still doing Hamas' propaganda work for them

Mainstream media is not equipped to properly report quickly and authoritatively enough to stop the spread of misinformation.

We are doomed.

There were likely hundreds killed.
A blast happened at a Gaza hospital.

Neither of those facts are disputed.

The damage assessment is clear, it wasn't an israeli missile, but that doesn't make MSNBC chyron wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such guilt and self-hate, and such contrarianism, that privileged white Americans are siding with terrorist organizations supported by the likes of Russia, Iran and North Korea. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads of their ass-s and deal with reality.

Such continued racism and hate for Arabs and POC that privileged white Americans are siding with a terrorist state that supports apartheid and genocide of over 2 million people, while oppressing other religious minorities under a fascist state. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads out of their ass-s and deal with reality.

The right wing, fanatical, neo-fascist hate came from Hamas.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting how fairly Israel has treated Arabs and Muslims in the past. Like citizens with equal rights.
There's a reason that former colonies, oppressed countries and formerly enslaved people across the globe are for a Free Palestine. This struggle has played out before.

Israel does treat Israeli Arabs and Muslims as citizens with equal rights.
And you're wrong about who supports a free Palestine. It's largely privileged white westerners who hate themselves so much that they want to live under a caliphate.
Are you really blind to the fact that countries like India are vehemently pro Israel, while white Britons are in the streets screaming about gassing Jews?

You are clearly white. I read a lot of news from Latin America and the newspapers do not read like here. And the VAST majority of supporters of Palestinian rights are Arabs, Muslims, and POC - not white folks. IF there were more white people, the needle may move in favor but it has not. I don't think you know much about the movement at all. Question, do you have an Arab or Muslim friends? Friends with any latinos?

And yes, India has long been anti-Muslim. I mean, Modi. Come on. It's also why so many Indians voted Trump. Or did you not know there was an India-Pakistan rift?

DP. I follow Latin American news in Spanish and I disagree with your characterization entirely. There is simply not this universal support for Palestinians in Latin America that you are implying. In fact there is a great deal of distrust because of historic religious tension. Of course there is distrust of Israel too. But your characterization here is both inaccurate and misleading.

there is nothing misleading about the statement. I said that the "newspapers do not read like here", which is 100% on point. Folha de São Paulo has given far more even handed reporting than anything in US media. There were fights in the Brazilian parliament yesterday over the hospital bombings, and Lula has long been a supporter of Palestinian rights. Of course, Argentina is very pro-Israel because of the large Jewish population but other countries have been in firm Palestinian camps. You must not read enough because Colombia has now threatened to eject all Israeli diplomats, with Ecuador looking to condemn the same. VZ is clearly not a fan of Israel and Bolivia has followed suit.

I have no idea what you are reading in Latin America but you clearly aren't up to speed.

You are cherry-picking individual pieces of news to paint a picture that overall isn’t there. There simply is no large ground swell of support for the Palestinians among the populations of Latin America, which is was the point of your original post. There are some governments which are taking cautious positions one way or the other, but most aren’t taking a stand one way or the other.

It’s disingenuous to take the position that there is significant support for the Palestinians in most Latin American countries. There is not. The fact is most people in those countries do not care one way or the other. They don’t consider it their business, and they think they are both crazy. There is both antisemitism and Islamophobia in many countries in Latin America. And they’ve got their own problems to deal with.

I believe you are reading news, but you are not painting an accurate picture. Though perhaps you are only reading Folha, which could explain the disconnect. If you are solely getting your news from Folha, I could see the gap in information.

You have completely misrepresented everything that I said to create your own talking points. Once again, I said that news media in LA painted a very different picture from US media, which is 100% true. And the fact that the Colombian and Brazilian presidents support a liberated Palestine is a big deal. Why you overlook that is beyond me. It is not news that VZ, Bolivia and Cuba would support this but for Colombia, Brazil and to some extend Ecuador is major news. Most HR orgs in Latin America also support a free Palestine, as there is affinity with their own causes. But you are correct in that most religious right organizations side with US evangelicals in their support for Israel and dislike of Muslims.

And most Hispanic orgs in the US that I work with overwhelmingly support the plight of Palestinians but that is because we work with refugees and immigrants.

Oh. You are conflating your leftist circles and organizations with the population as a whole. Well, that explains your misinformation. I am quite certain that yes, leftist organizations in Latin America support Palestinians, like leftist organizations in many countries. But as in many countries, leftist organizations in Latin America are distanced from the general population. This is a common organizational failure of both left- and right-wing organizations; they surround themselves with like-minded people and convince themselves that they are fully representative.

If you so convinced of the enormous support for the Palestinian cause in Latin America, how do you think the general population would react to sending military support to Palestine? Do you think the general population in, say, Ecuador would be okay with their sons in the Ejército Ecuatoriano dying to support Palestine?

I believe that leftist organizations are loud and you think they are representative but if you believe there is deep and widespread support for the Palestinian cause across Latin America, you are badly deluded.

Do you think US conservatives or the general population will support US troop fighting for Israel? You are delusional. Biden would be impeached immediately if he commits any US troop to combat for Israel. The US has no treaty or moral obligation to Israel. None!

God, you are so tiresome. Of course I do not think the US population would support US troops fighting in Israel. Forget the conservatives, there would be little support across the board. As with Latin America, there would be little support for losing sons to the Middle East.

Look, I don’t know why you want to keep believing that general Latin American populations care much at all about the Palestinians, or Israelis, for that matter. Just because your social circle consists of NGO employees does not mean Latin Americans as a whole have any desire to spend limited government money on or go to war for Palestinians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such guilt and self-hate, and such contrarianism, that privileged white Americans are siding with terrorist organizations supported by the likes of Russia, Iran and North Korea. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads of their ass-s and deal with reality.

Such continued racism and hate for Arabs and POC that privileged white Americans are siding with a terrorist state that supports apartheid and genocide of over 2 million people, while oppressing other religious minorities under a fascist state. It might actually take a world war for these people to get their heads out of their ass-s and deal with reality.

The right wing, fanatical, neo-fascist hate came from Hamas.

Ah yes, I keep forgetting how fairly Israel has treated Arabs and Muslims in the past. Like citizens with equal rights.
There's a reason that former colonies, oppressed countries and formerly enslaved people across the globe are for a Free Palestine. This struggle has played out before.

Israel does treat Israeli Arabs and Muslims as citizens with equal rights.
And you're wrong about who supports a free Palestine. It's largely privileged white westerners who hate themselves so much that they want to live under a caliphate.
Are you really blind to the fact that countries like India are vehemently pro Israel, while white Britons are in the streets screaming about gassing Jews?

You are clearly white. I read a lot of news from Latin America and the newspapers do not read like here. And the VAST majority of supporters of Palestinian rights are Arabs, Muslims, and POC - not white folks. IF there were more white people, the needle may move in favor but it has not. I don't think you know much about the movement at all. Question, do you have an Arab or Muslim friends? Friends with any latinos?

And yes, India has long been anti-Muslim. I mean, Modi. Come on. It's also why so many Indians voted Trump. Or did you not know there was an India-Pakistan rift?

DP. I follow Latin American news in Spanish and I disagree with your characterization entirely. There is simply not this universal support for Palestinians in Latin America that you are implying. In fact there is a great deal of distrust because of historic religious tension. Of course there is distrust of Israel too. But your characterization here is both inaccurate and misleading.

there is nothing misleading about the statement. I said that the "newspapers do not read like here", which is 100% on point. Folha de São Paulo has given far more even handed reporting than anything in US media. There were fights in the Brazilian parliament yesterday over the hospital bombings, and Lula has long been a supporter of Palestinian rights. Of course, Argentina is very pro-Israel because of the large Jewish population but other countries have been in firm Palestinian camps. You must not read enough because Colombia has now threatened to eject all Israeli diplomats, with Ecuador looking to condemn the same. VZ is clearly not a fan of Israel and Bolivia has followed suit.

I have no idea what you are reading in Latin America but you clearly aren't up to speed.

You are cherry-picking individual pieces of news to paint a picture that overall isn’t there. There simply is no large ground swell of support for the Palestinians among the populations of Latin America, which is was the point of your original post. There are some governments which are taking cautious positions one way or the other, but most aren’t taking a stand one way or the other.

It’s disingenuous to take the position that there is significant support for the Palestinians in most Latin American countries. There is not. The fact is most people in those countries do not care one way or the other. They don’t consider it their business, and they think they are both crazy. There is both antisemitism and Islamophobia in many countries in Latin America. And they’ve got their own problems to deal with.

I believe you are reading news, but you are not painting an accurate picture. Though perhaps you are only reading Folha, which could explain the disconnect. If you are solely getting your news from Folha, I could see the gap in information.

You have completely misrepresented everything that I said to create your own talking points. Once again, I said that news media in LA painted a very different picture from US media, which is 100% true. And the fact that the Colombian and Brazilian presidents support a liberated Palestine is a big deal. Why you overlook that is beyond me. It is not news that VZ, Bolivia and Cuba would support this but for Colombia, Brazil and to some extend Ecuador is major news. Most HR orgs in Latin America also support a free Palestine, as there is affinity with their own causes. But you are correct in that most religious right organizations side with US evangelicals in their support for Israel and dislike of Muslims.

And most Hispanic orgs in the US that I work with overwhelmingly support the plight of Palestinians but that is because we work with refugees and immigrants.

Oh. You are conflating your leftist circles and organizations with the population as a whole. Well, that explains your misinformation. I am quite certain that yes, leftist organizations in Latin America support Palestinians, like leftist organizations in many countries. But as in many countries, leftist organizations in Latin America are distanced from the general population. This is a common organizational failure of both left- and right-wing organizations; they surround themselves with like-minded people and convince themselves that they are fully representative.

If you so convinced of the enormous support for the Palestinian cause in Latin America, how do you think the general population would react to sending military support to Palestine? Do you think the general population in, say, Ecuador would be okay with their sons in the Ejército Ecuatoriano dying to support Palestine?

I believe that leftist organizations are loud and you think they are representative but if you believe there is deep and widespread support for the Palestinian cause across Latin America, you are badly deluded.

You have once again conflated everything that I have said. I said that the newspapers in Latin America "do not read like here" and there is far MORE support among Latinos than white folks like yourself who believe in full blown apartheid and genocide. And no, Latin America does not send troops anywhere but they are against colonialism - even Argentina (Hello, Malvinas). I also said that the vast majority of supporters for Palestine were POC, which is still true despite your inability to prove otherwise. And yes, the governments of Latin America are largely more supportive of a free Palestine than the US because they understand what oppression looks like. But sure, I'm going to have some white lady dictate to me what I said about my work with my population in my field of expertise. And then you accuse me of being a leftist. Right on freaking queue. White ladies know above everyone else? Have you sucked enough air out of the room yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden just said he has a deal with the Israelis to allow aid to flow into Gaza from Egypt.

What do the pro-Hamas people say now?

No one here is pro-Hamas.

Are you disappointed that some civilians won’t die? You seem a little agitated.

And you seem to have forgotten there were any Jewish civilians at all.

[Anonymous]

Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. It is becoming more and more clear:

“While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,” White House National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson says in a statement.

[Anonymous]

US vetoes UN Security Council action on Israel, Gaza
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-vetoes-un-se...ael-gaza-2023-10-18/

The United States vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution on Wednesday that would have called for humanitarian pauses in the conflict between Israel and Palestinian Hamas militants to allow humanitarian aid access to the Gaza Strip.

This is not a good look for the U.S. Quite a contrast with our humanitarian intervention in Ukraine! I'm embarrassed to admit that we come off as hypocrites, as the Russians say. Losing the moral high ground after all the struggles of the past 18 months in Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks, the Pentagon backs up Israel’s claim it didn’t strike the hospital. I’m not sure why people wouldn’t believe the govt experts—sounds kind of Trumpy.

Fake news just like beheaded babies.

Because that same Pentagon swore up and down that there were confirmed WMDs in Iraq. We went to war for 20 years based on that finding. Turns out, they knowingly misled the public and there were none. Did you forget that 20 year period?

Yes. This definitely means we should trust a terrorist group instead. They are always very truthful.

[Anonymous]

no one here supports Hamas - stop these ridiculous claims. We support the INNOCENTS being killed, staved and deprived of basic human rights.

the root of the issue here is that Israel believes the invisible dude in the sky said that they can have the land Palastine currently occupi(ed). You can't convince them otherwise and they have justified their horrific treatment and war crimes against Palestinians because of this.

Biden is complicit in this horror and is going to pay at the polls.

[Anonymous]

If what is in the photo is the extent of damage, to a parking lot, and the hospital building is intact, then the initial claims by Hamas are wildly false.