That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. But this is so frustrating because the pattern here....makes you feel like this girl was a sitting duck.

Yes, all the more so because she didn't know anyone at the party, her sister disappeared, and she probably nursed a drink waiting for her.

The earlier description I read said he was forcing himself on women, and trying to make them kiss him, one woman in particular, but she was part of the school and there with friends... she rebuffed him, they rebuffed him, and when he kept acting like a jerk the guys threw him out.

I hope he gets his due in prison or just in the general populace after his 3 month sentence is over. What a SMF.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

OMG! Who are you? You are a monster to defend that guy. Do you feel it is ok to rape and finger a drunk woman passed out by a dumpster. He committed a crime; she didnt.

Probably a member of Isis. Really. "Antelope" ??? Who talks like that? Has to be someone in Isis or living in a cave in Kentucky.

Actually the victim called HERSELF an antelope. You knew that, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

Oh really? And I bet it still sounds like I'm helping rapists rape, huh?

You just keep repeating yourself like you're saying something profound, and it's annoying me. I don't think it's profound at all; I think it's simplistic. And I don't think you get why saying "be careful" in this context is lame. Of course, everyone should be careful. You don't think the victim wishes she'd been more careful? You can't read the story without thinking, gosh, I should be more careful. But it's shitty to say it, because she paid 1000000 times over for her "carelessness." And nobody deserves what happened to her. And when you do what you're doing, which is assign guilt, you're telling every single person that reads your words that if they're raped, they should go over what they did and think about their role in it.

I'm sure rape victims already do that. In a case like this where some bad decisions were made you think we should just completely ignore those bad decisions and not try to learn from them at all? You would think rape victims would be the first to jump up and and say "Protect yourself, ladies, as best you can! There are bad people out there". Empower others to avoid these bad guys, if they can. They can't all be avoided, but if you have *some* control over a situation why wouldn't you at least try your best to reduce the risk.

If I had sons, I'm sure I'd be thinking of ways to help them be a good person and respect others. Be a Swede.

But I only have girls so I'm thinking of ways to help them avoid these bad guys.

Anyway, it has been said 70,000 times now so I'll stop. Unless the "help rapists rape" comments continue.

+ a million!! It's true empowerment to try to be at your best to have as much control over a situation as is humanly possible. Regardless of the circumstances, whether it's a man or a woman, you pretty much lose control of what's happening when you drink heavily.

Great. You're so helpful. Because not drinking solves everything.

He might have spiked her drink!!! She wasn't a heavy drinker..... Don't be so quick to judge.

I avoided bad guys in college at a very competitive, socially intense school where there was a ton of binge drinking and all kinds of sexual stuff happening, very similar in those respects to Stanford. You know what it meant? not being cool, and suffering the social consequences.

Blowing off people when they were headed into wierd situations, excusing myself and walking home alone when things were getting wierd.

So there I was, not drunk, doing the right thing, with no choice but to walk home, alone. I could have gotten raped walking home alone, not drunk, dressed in a cardigan, or as conservatively as she was.

Do you think you would have some other advice for what to do in those other situations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

He is living with the consequences of his actions, and the more people know his name and those of his apologists, the better.

Brock Turner
Dan Turner
Leslie Rasmussen

They had a choice, and they have a choice every day to rethink. And they are doubling down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

Oh really? And I bet it still sounds like I'm helping rapists rape, huh?

You just keep repeating yourself like you're saying something profound, and it's annoying me. I don't think it's profound at all; I think it's simplistic. And I don't think you get why saying "be careful" in this context is lame. Of course, everyone should be careful. You don't think the victim wishes she'd been more careful? You can't read the story without thinking, gosh, I should be more careful. But it's shitty to say it, because she paid 1000000 times over for her "carelessness." And nobody deserves what happened to her. And when you do what you're doing, which is assign guilt, you're telling every single person that reads your words that if they're raped, they should go over what they did and think about their role in it.

I'm sure rape victims already do that. In a case like this where some bad decisions were made you think we should just completely ignore those bad decisions and not try to learn from them at all? You would think rape victims would be the first to jump up and and say "Protect yourself, ladies, as best you can! There are bad people out there". Empower others to avoid these bad guys, if they can. They can't all be avoided, but if you have *some* control over a situation why wouldn't you at least try your best to reduce the risk.

If I had sons, I'm sure I'd be thinking of ways to help them be a good person and respect others. Be a Swede.

But I only have girls so I'm thinking of ways to help them avoid these bad guys.

Anyway, it has been said 70,000 times now so I'll stop. Unless the "help rapists rape" comments continue.

+ a million!! It's true empowerment to try to be at your best to have as much control over a situation as is humanly possible. Regardless of the circumstances, whether it's a man or a woman, you pretty much lose control of what's happening when you drink heavily.

Great. You're so helpful. Because not drinking solves everything.

He might have spiked her drink!!! She wasn't a heavy drinker..... Don't be so quick to judge.

I avoided bad guys in college at a very competitive, socially intense school where there was a ton of binge drinking and all kinds of sexual stuff happening, very similar in those respects to Stanford. You know what it meant? not being cool, and suffering the social consequences.

Blowing off people when they were headed into wierd situations, excusing myself and walking home alone when things were getting wierd.

So there I was, not drunk, doing the right thing, with no choice but to walk home, alone. I could have gotten raped walking home alone, not drunk, dressed in a cardigan, or as conservatively as she was.

Do you think you would have some other advice for what to do in those other situations?

No one has said that just not drinking heavily would be the answer to every situation. It's still a powerful message, and people need to hear it and act on it. I get the situation you're describing and don't have a perfect answer. I do think colleges and universities need to provide more solutions whether it's small buses or taxis or a "help" line to call for assistance. Many do those things already. Just watching the Hannah Graham videos should be enough reason for making changes. I absolutely can't imagine the fear and pain she experienced.

[Anonymous]

This thread is such an interesting example of socioeconomic dynamics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, he's a dirtbag, but so is the judge who decided a long prison sentence would have too severe an impact on him. Severe impact is exactly what this guy needs, not just a quick time out.

+1
Exactly!

I agree both that the dude is a dirt bag and that he deserved a longer sentence. I do have some concern when sentences like these are criticized on the grounds of racial and wealth disparity. If the problem is that judges can't adequately empathize with disadvantaged groups, then the issue is that the disadvantaged groups are getting sentences that are too harsh, not that privileged white people are getting sentences that are too lenient. Its less of an issue here because the sentence was too lenient regardless of the defendant's background.

Call a spade a spade plueeze. White priveledge is reeking from this entire case. It is a true illustration of race and privledge disparity. Please don't minimize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

If I stand naked in the street at 2:00 am it doesn't give anyone the right to rape me.

you're right it doesn't. but would you advise your daughter to do so?

NP here. Safety advice I would give my child is completely irrelevant to whether someone is justified in committing a crime against them or whether the criminal deserves jail time.

I tell my kids to lock the front door. Whether they do, do but forger the deadbolt, or do not for some reason, if someone breaks in and steals their things it is still a crime and still the fault and moral responsibility of the thief.

[Anonymous]

^forget the deadbolt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

If I stand naked in the street at 2:00 am it doesn't give anyone the right to rape me.

you're right it doesn't. but would you advise your daughter to do so?

NP here. Safety advice I would give my child is completely irrelevant to whether someone is justified in committing a crime against them or whether the criminal deserves jail time.

I tell my kids to lock the front door. Whether they do, do but forger the deadbolt, or do not for some reason, if someone breaks in and steals their things it is still a crime and still the fault and moral responsibility of the thief.

Absolutely! But making the effort to try to be safe should still be the message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to teach my girls to assume all men are dirtbags (even though most are not), and unless you know EVERYONE you are with in a closed environment, and trust them completely, don't drink to the point of passing out. And I'm going to teach my sons to respect women and that no means no and that the law says drunk women cannot consent, even if you are drunk too.

No one drinks enough to pass out on purpose. You can rarely control who will be at a party especially in college. I don't believe in blaming women but if I had a daughter I would do what I could in advance as well of course. Maybe we should actively teach safe drinking just like we promote safe sex and sex ed. Young men and women shouldn't be sent off to college with zero drinking knowledge where they'll be surrounded by weekend binge drinkers. They should be taught how to pace themselves, what not to mix, they need to eat first and rehydrate etc..

I think it's great that you are teaching your son about consent. Hearing that from you will be powerful I'm sure they'll always remember that.

My son has already told me that he has no interest in drinking alcohol. He enjoys athletic pursuits and being fit. Drugs/drinking/tobacco don't fit into his lifestyle. I don't know how I ended up with a kid like this but right about now I am counting my lucky stars that I have (I definitely enjoyed drinking in college). And he isn't even judgmental about people who do drink, it's just not his thing.

At any rate, I mention this because drinking really is...optional. Definitely talk to them about watching out for themselves and other people. Definitely talk to boys about being decent to girls.

What happened in this case is a parent's nightmare - on both sides. But I really think that there are more swedes in this world than Brocks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

If I stand naked in the street at 2:00 am it doesn't give anyone the right to rape me.

you're right it doesn't. but would you advise your daughter to do so?

NP here. Safety advice I would give my child is completely irrelevant to whether someone is justified in committing a crime against them or whether the criminal deserves jail time.

I tell my kids to lock the front door. Whether they do, do but forger the deadbolt, or do not for some reason, if someone breaks in and steals their things it is still a crime and still the fault and moral responsibility of the thief.

Absolutely! But making the effort to try to be safe should still be the message.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

Oh really? And I bet it still sounds like I'm helping rapists rape, huh?

You just keep repeating yourself like you're saying something profound, and it's annoying me. I don't think it's profound at all; I think it's simplistic. And I don't think you get why saying "be careful" in this context is lame. Of course, everyone should be careful. You don't think the victim wishes she'd been more careful? You can't read the story without thinking, gosh, I should be more careful. But it's shitty to say it, because she paid 1000000 times over for her "carelessness." And nobody deserves what happened to her. And when you do what you're doing, which is assign guilt, you're telling every single person that reads your words that if they're raped, they should go over what they did and think about they're role in it.

You know what? I read her story and think that I would have been severely upset and angry if I found out that some opportunistic college hook up had fingered me while I was passed out drunk.

But being passed out drunk and half naked and then being photographed like that by the police... being at the hospital and not knowing what had happened to me, getting that rape kit done, being photographed again, going through the trial, having all of that graphic evidence laid out for all to see.....that would have been way worse than the initial crime. Maybe that's just me. But I can not imagine going through that hell...

He was convicted of penetration with a foreign object. He wasn't just fingering her. He was shoving stuff up her vagina while she was unconscious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious what he was supposed to do with her body had he stopped at the right time? Leave her there for (potentially) someone else to rape her? Take her to the hospital where she could have fabricated a story against him? Carry her back to the bar? I mean the girl went behind a dumpster to have sex with a stranger. The only reason the story turned into a huge mess is her passing out form too much alcohol.

There's no evidence that she went behind the dumpster willingly at all, and the "huge mess" is BECAUSE HE RAPED HER.

The rape charges were dropped so he didn't rape her.

He was convicted of penetrating her with a foreign object. Just because he didn't use his penis doesn't mean it wasn't rape. He was shoving things in her vagina while she was unconscious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

Oh really? And I bet it still sounds like I'm helping rapists rape, huh?

You just keep repeating yourself like you're saying something profound, and it's annoying me. I don't think it's profound at all; I think it's simplistic. And I don't think you get why saying "be careful" in this context is lame. Of course, everyone should be careful. You don't think the victim wishes she'd been more careful? You can't read the story without thinking, gosh, I should be more careful. But it's shitty to say it, because she paid 1000000 times over for her "carelessness." And nobody deserves what happened to her. And when you do what you're doing, which is assign guilt, you're telling every single person that reads your words that if they're raped, they should go over what they did and think about they're role in it.

You know what? I read her story and think that I would have been severely upset and angry if I found out that some opportunistic college hook up had fingered me while I was passed out drunk.

But being passed out drunk and half naked and then being photographed like that by the police... being at the hospital and not knowing what had happened to me, getting that rape kit done, being photographed again, going through the trial, having all of that graphic evidence laid out for all to see.....that would have been way worse than the initial crime. Maybe that's just me. But I can not imagine going through that hell...

Yeah she really asked for it by having that rape kit done

The rape kit was an invasive process. Necessary in some situations but probably not necessary in this case and if she had been more aware of what was happening to her she might have decided not to have that rape kit done. As it was, she had blacked out drinking and didn't know what had happened to her - she could have been gang raped for all she knew. Not knowing what had happened to her probably factored in to her decision to have that invasive rape kit and those additional photographs taken.

How do you propose that they remove the dirt and pine needles and other stuff he shoved up her vagina? Getting that bacteria laden crap out of her body was pretty necessary.