FCPS Skyview Boundary Scenario 1/2/3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So most of Franklin MS will go to Oakton but then the poor Lees Corner kids will be the only ones there that go on to Chantilly HS? They will have no opportunity to meet kids going to Chantilly while at Franklin? That’s awful.

Its really not a big deal if their entire elementary school is going on the Chantilly. Certainly not "awful". How silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So most of Franklin MS will go to Oakton but then the poor Lees Corner kids will be the only ones there that go on to Chantilly HS? They will have no opportunity to meet kids going to Chantilly while at Franklin? That’s awful.

FCPS does not care about this. Many schools have this same problem now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand the rationale to move one street (with a few secondary courts) in Franklin Farm to Lees Corner and Westfield. That particular street-- Tuckaway-- connects to Thompson Road, which is where Navy is. If that street has to be different from the remainder of the development, why not move them to Navy?

Franklin Farm currently feeds into two high schools, but they might now feed into three?

Make it make sense...

It’s not just Tuckaway - they also proposed doing that to Hidden Meadow and Thorngate on the east side of Franklin farm.

Sending them to Westfield, as well?

The logic is, they need kids to go to Westfield.

That's not the point.

I have nothing against Westfield.

My concern is splitting ONE street (with a few secondary streets) in the development to a different high school. I also can't figure out why Tuckaway doesn't go to Navy since it is perpendicular to the road off which Navy sits.

If they chose to change a bunch of Franklin Farm to Westfield, I wouldn't question it. I just think it's very strange that they chose only Tuckaway.

They chose Tuckaway because they are sending it to Lee's Corner and they were doing that stupid suggestion of sending Lee's Corner to Westfield.

Again, no one should be shipped that far away when it is not necessary.

Just shift Centreville and Chantilly around the edges to Westfield. Cub Run, and at least some of Bull Run that is equidistant. Both of those are reasonable suggestions.

That Tuckaway drive area is closer in miles to Westfield then Bull Run ES. So doesn't make sense to describe it as "shipped that far away". If that's too far for you, then the Bull Run ES areas are definitely too far. Your logic isn't logicking.

It is not closer--and the time is significantly different--especially on a school bus. They would have to drive through another high school boundary to get there. Right now, the time difference is plus 5 minutes than Bull Run Elementary in a car--much,much longer on a school bus than Bull Run (and there are Bull Run neighborhoods that are much closer in time elapsed. Rush hour the time difference would be greater.

Geographically, it makes no sense at all. Especially, when Bull Run is also not close to Centreville High School.

I don't live in the area but I do hate hypocrites. Anyone can pop into google maps and see that you are wrong on the distances.

"Time traveled" and "time on a school bus" are not significant measurements, especially when it depends on the route and time of day with traffic around here. Please don't insult our intelligence. That neighborhood in Herndon would be going to and from Westfield **against** commuter traffic. The Bull Run areas would be commuting with traffic in the morning and with traffic in the afternoon on Route 28 which is a pain. That does make a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So most of Franklin MS will go to Oakton but then the poor Lees Corner kids will be the only ones there that go on to Chantilly HS? They will have no opportunity to meet kids going to Chantilly while at Franklin? That’s awful.

FCPS does not care about this. Many schools have this same problem now.

Agree. I think worrying about split feeders in middle is pointless. The capacities and locations don't line up in any logical way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain why Crossfield has Franklin - Skyview in one scenario only? And why wouldn’t it be Carson - Skyview when Franklin is going to be an Oakton feeder? Make it make sense!

Because Crossfield to Skyview is not such an obvious choice.

The trip from Crossfield to Skyview would be much shorter than the current commute to Oakton, which is a valid point.

That said, if Crossfield switched to Franklin Middle and stayed at Oakton High, while Oak Hill switched to Carson Middle and Skyview, it would eliminate a split feeder pattern, another criteria.

Fox Mill is as close to Skyview as Crossfield is, if not closer

It appears that more Fox Mill families would send kids to Skyview than Crossfield families.

Community input isn’t everything, but it should carry weight.

But I agree that if Crossfield gets moved to Skyview, it should stay at Carson. That part doesn't make sense.

The difference is that Crossfield family have a much longer commute to Oakton than Fox Mill families have to South Lakes. It's comparative. We really need to alleviate the commute, therefore families like McNair, Coates, Floris, Crossfield who have 20+ drives to high school should be prioritized.

The distance/commute is not a sole criteria.

Reducing/elminating a split feeder pattern is also a criteria. And community feedback should matter too.

You're absolutely right. Fox Mill really should be moved to Hughes. Thank you.

Fox Mill to Hughes is not going to happen. It is only discussed on this board. Even Meren doesn't support it now.

The likely outcome is either

Fox Mill - Carson - SLHS / Crossfield - Carson - Skyview

or

Fox Mill - Carson - Skyview / Crossfield - Franklin - Oakton

Both scenarios are plausible.

I don't understand why we can't just keep middle school the same. Why does Oak Hill have to move to Carson? Why can't they just stay at Franklin, while Fox Mill and Crossfield stay at Carson?

That would make the split feeding pattern even worse.

They are changing middle school boundaries to minimize the split feeder issue.

Split feeders are awesome.

My kid can go to an ib or ap school!

More choice is better.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain why Crossfield has Franklin - Skyview in one scenario only? And why wouldn’t it be Carson - Skyview when Franklin is going to be an Oakton feeder? Make it make sense!

Because Crossfield to Skyview is not such an obvious choice.

The trip from Crossfield to Skyview would be much shorter than the current commute to Oakton, which is a valid point.

That said, if Crossfield switched to Franklin Middle and stayed at Oakton High, while Oak Hill switched to Carson Middle and Skyview, it would eliminate a split feeder pattern, another criteria.

Fox Mill is as close to Skyview as Crossfield is, if not closer

It appears that more Fox Mill families would send kids to Skyview than Crossfield families.

Community input isn’t everything, but it should carry weight.

But I agree that if Crossfield gets moved to Skyview, it should stay at Carson. That part doesn't make sense.

Closer != faster.

Left turns, stop light timing, number of stops lights, speed limits, traffic density, propensity for accidents and the like.

That's just too simplistic.

I live in Franklin Farm. Trust me when I tell you it is far safer for a teen to drive from my neighborhood to Skyview (big, wide open roads, maybe 5 stop lights total and really only one left turn) than it is for them to drive on narrow windy roads with a ton of blind spots to get to Oakton.

Um, your kid can....
get on west ox (nice big road), then get on rt 50 (nice big road), get on i66 (nice big road), get off on 123 (nice big road) , then get on germantown (nice big road).

Each of these roads is at least 2 lanes in each direction....

They're not required to go on fox mill, whaples mill, or bennet.

66 is a HIGHWAY. It gets backed up, merging is insane. I know this, I do this every. signal. day. I see fender benders on 66 at least twice a month.

Old enough to remember when 2 Oakton students were killed on it 50 on the way home from 2nd day of school.

Unfortunately, HS drivers are killed on wide roads with 35 mile an hour speed limits because HS drivers are less experienced and more prone to making poor decisions regarding speed.

And in all honesty, seeing a few fender benders a month is not really that big a deal, they are a relativly rare event given the amount of traffic on the road. I am not saying that the distance and road conditions are a reason to move or not move but I don't think that the likelihood of an accident or event with teenagers involved changes that much. Teens are already at a far higher risk for accidents regardless of where they are driving.

Wow you RIO moms will do ANYTHING to stay at Oakton. I don't want my kids driving on highways if not necessary.

Cool, they can take the side streets. And my kid isn't at Crossfield or going to Skyview.

I have no issue with saying that distance and commute are good reasons for Crossfield families to attend Skyview, valid points. Layering in "This one tragic event happened so we are right." is manipulating peoples emotions. Getting upset when people point out that teens get in deadly crashes in front of schools on wide open roads with a lower speed limit because it counter balances your tragic event is an interesting choice.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain why Crossfield has Franklin - Skyview in one scenario only? And why wouldn’t it be Carson - Skyview when Franklin is going to be an Oakton feeder? Make it make sense!

Because Crossfield to Skyview is not such an obvious choice.

The trip from Crossfield to Skyview would be much shorter than the current commute to Oakton, which is a valid point.

That said, if Crossfield switched to Franklin Middle and stayed at Oakton High, while Oak Hill switched to Carson Middle and Skyview, it would eliminate a split feeder pattern, another criteria.

Fox Mill is as close to Skyview as Crossfield is, if not closer

It appears that more Fox Mill families would send kids to Skyview than Crossfield families.

Community input isn’t everything, but it should carry weight.

But I agree that if Crossfield gets moved to Skyview, it should stay at Carson. That part doesn't make sense.

The difference is that Crossfield family have a much longer commute to Oakton than Fox Mill families have to South Lakes. It's comparative. We really need to alleviate the commute, therefore families like McNair, Coates, Floris, Crossfield who have 20+ drives to high school should be prioritized.

The distance/commute is not a sole criteria.

Reducing/elminating a split feeder pattern is also a criteria. And community feedback should matter too.

You're absolutely right. Fox Mill really should be moved to Hughes. Thank you.

Fox Mill to Hughes is not going to happen. It is only discussed on this board. Even Meren doesn't support it now.

The likely outcome is either

Fox Mill - Carson - SLHS / Crossfield - Carson - Skyview

or

Fox Mill - Carson - Skyview / Crossfield - Franklin - Oakton

Both scenarios are plausible.

I don't understand why we can't just keep middle school the same. Why does Oak Hill have to move to Carson? Why can't they just stay at Franklin, while Fox Mill and Crossfield stay at Carson?

That would make the split feeding pattern even worse.

They are changing middle school boundaries to minimize the split feeder issue.

Split feeders are awesome.

My kid can go to an ib or ap school!

More choice is better.

That is pupil placement, your kid can place to an IB school if they are at AP, or vice versa. That has nothing to do withsplit feeders.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand the rationale to move one street (with a few secondary courts) in Franklin Farm to Lees Corner and Westfield. That particular street-- Tuckaway-- connects to Thompson Road, which is where Navy is. If that street has to be different from the remainder of the development, why not move them to Navy?

Franklin Farm currently feeds into two high schools, but they might now feed into three?

Make it make sense...

It’s not just Tuckaway - they also proposed doing that to Hidden Meadow and Thorngate on the east side of Franklin farm.

Sending them to Westfield, as well?

The logic is, they need kids to go to Westfield.

That's not the point.

I have nothing against Westfield.

My concern is splitting ONE street (with a few secondary streets) in the development to a different high school. I also can't figure out why Tuckaway doesn't go to Navy since it is perpendicular to the road off which Navy sits.

If they chose to change a bunch of Franklin Farm to Westfield, I wouldn't question it. I just think it's very strange that they chose only Tuckaway.

They chose Tuckaway because they are sending it to Lee's Corner and they were doing that stupid suggestion of sending Lee's Corner to Westfield.

Again, no one should be shipped that far away when it is not necessary.

Just shift Centreville and Chantilly around the edges to Westfield. Cub Run, and at least some of Bull Run that is equidistant. Both of those are reasonable suggestions.

That Tuckaway drive area is closer in miles to Westfield then Bull Run ES. So doesn't make sense to describe it as "shipped that far away". If that's too far for you, then the Bull Run ES areas are definitely too far. Your logic isn't logicking.

It is not closer--and the time is significantly different--especially on a school bus. They would have to drive through another high school boundary to get there. Right now, the time difference is plus 5 minutes than Bull Run Elementary in a car--much,much longer on a school bus than Bull Run (and there are Bull Run neighborhoods that are much closer in time elapsed. Rush hour the time difference would be greater.

Geographically, it makes no sense at all. Especially, when Bull Run is also not close to Centreville High School.

Random house on Tuckaway drive (13208 Tuckaway Dr, HERNDON) to Westfield HS is 5.4 miles
Bull Run ES to Westfield is 5.8 miles.
Random house in the area (14725 Calvary Placve-currently CVHS) pp wants to send to Westfield: 7.2 miles

In what universe is 5.4 miles NOT CLOSER IN MILES than 5.8 or 7.2 miles?

FWIW, I would not put real addresses here on DCUM. But, since you did, the time is still the same. The difference? Chantilly is five minutes away. Skyview, maybe 10 minutes.

In any case, Lee's Corner is not near any other Westfield elementary schools. Bull Run is next to multiple Westfield elementary schools. That is community and neighborhoods.

NP-So we are all on the same page that 5.4 miles is closer than 5.8 miles or 7.2 miles? The location in Herndon is closer in miles than those locations in the Bull Run area? Or are we living in an alternate facts universe?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain why Crossfield has Franklin - Skyview in one scenario only? And why wouldn’t it be Carson - Skyview when Franklin is going to be an Oakton feeder? Make it make sense!

Because Crossfield to Skyview is not such an obvious choice.

The trip from Crossfield to Skyview would be much shorter than the current commute to Oakton, which is a valid point.

That said, if Crossfield switched to Franklin Middle and stayed at Oakton High, while Oak Hill switched to Carson Middle and Skyview, it would eliminate a split feeder pattern, another criteria.

Fox Mill is as close to Skyview as Crossfield is, if not closer

It appears that more Fox Mill families would send kids to Skyview than Crossfield families.

Community input isn’t everything, but it should carry weight.

But I agree that if Crossfield gets moved to Skyview, it should stay at Carson. That part doesn't make sense.

Closer != faster.

Left turns, stop light timing, number of stops lights, speed limits, traffic density, propensity for accidents and the like.

That's just too simplistic.

I live in Franklin Farm. Trust me when I tell you it is far safer for a teen to drive from my neighborhood to Skyview (big, wide open roads, maybe 5 stop lights total and really only one left turn) than it is for them to drive on narrow windy roads with a ton of blind spots to get to Oakton.

Um, your kid can....
get on west ox (nice big road), then get on rt 50 (nice big road), get on i66 (nice big road), get off on 123 (nice big road) , then get on germantown (nice big road).

Each of these roads is at least 2 lanes in each direction....

They're not required to go on fox mill, whaples mill, or bennet.

66 is a HIGHWAY. It gets backed up, merging is insane. I know this, I do this every. signal. day. I see fender benders on 66 at least twice a month.

Old enough to remember when 2 Oakton students were killed on it 50 on the way home from 2nd day of school.

Unfortunately, HS drivers are killed on wide roads with 35 mile an hour speed limits because HS drivers are less experienced and more prone to making poor decisions regarding speed.

And in all honesty, seeing a few fender benders a month is not really that big a deal, they are a relativly rare event given the amount of traffic on the road. I am not saying that the distance and road conditions are a reason to move or not move but I don't think that the likelihood of an accident or event with teenagers involved changes that much. Teens are already at a far higher risk for accidents regardless of where they are driving.

Wow you RIO moms will do ANYTHING to stay at Oakton. I don't want my kids driving on highways if not necessary.

Cool, they can take the side streets. And my kid isn't at Crossfield or going to Skyview.

I have no issue with saying that distance and commute are good reasons for Crossfield families to attend Skyview, valid points. Layering in "This one tragic event happened so we are right." is manipulating peoples emotions. Getting upset when people point out that teens get in deadly crashes in front of schools on wide open roads with a lower speed limit because it counter balances your tragic event is an interesting choice.

I'm the PP who "layered that in." Please note, I only "layered that in" after a PP had claimed that those highways (66) and rt 50 were fine.
We all know that the more miles you drive, the stats are worse.
Having driven that route many times (and I was not the poster who said she drives it daily) I can vouch for the awful traffic on 66 and the awful back roads which I have often taken many times.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand the rationale to move one street (with a few secondary courts) in Franklin Farm to Lees Corner and Westfield. That particular street-- Tuckaway-- connects to Thompson Road, which is where Navy is. If that street has to be different from the remainder of the development, why not move them to Navy?

Franklin Farm currently feeds into two high schools, but they might now feed into three?

Make it make sense...

It’s not just Tuckaway - they also proposed doing that to Hidden Meadow and Thorngate on the east side of Franklin farm.

Sending them to Westfield, as well?

The logic is, they need kids to go to Westfield.

That's not the point.

I have nothing against Westfield.

My concern is splitting ONE street (with a few secondary streets) in the development to a different high school. I also can't figure out why Tuckaway doesn't go to Navy since it is perpendicular to the road off which Navy sits.

If they chose to change a bunch of Franklin Farm to Westfield, I wouldn't question it. I just think it's very strange that they chose only Tuckaway.

They chose Tuckaway because they are sending it to Lee's Corner and they were doing that stupid suggestion of sending Lee's Corner to Westfield.

Again, no one should be shipped that far away when it is not necessary.

Just shift Centreville and Chantilly around the edges to Westfield. Cub Run, and at least some of Bull Run that is equidistant. Both of those are reasonable suggestions.

That Tuckaway drive area is closer in miles to Westfield then Bull Run ES. So doesn't make sense to describe it as "shipped that far away". If that's too far for you, then the Bull Run ES areas are definitely too far. Your logic isn't logicking.

It is not closer--and the time is significantly different--especially on a school bus. They would have to drive through another high school boundary to get there. Right now, the time difference is plus 5 minutes than Bull Run Elementary in a car--much,much longer on a school bus than Bull Run (and there are Bull Run neighborhoods that are much closer in time elapsed. Rush hour the time difference would be greater.

Geographically, it makes no sense at all. Especially, when Bull Run is also not close to Centreville High School.

Random house on Tuckaway drive (13208 Tuckaway Dr, HERNDON) to Westfield HS is 5.4 miles
Bull Run ES to Westfield is 5.8 miles.
Random house in the area (14725 Calvary Placve-currently CVHS) pp wants to send to Westfield: 7.2 miles

there is no point laying out facts to that nutty lees corner mom who argues and exaggerates about everything.
In what universe is 5.4 miles NOT CLOSER IN MILES than 5.8 or 7.2 miles?

FWIW, I would not put real addresses here on DCUM. But, since you did, the time is still the same. The difference? Chantilly is five minutes away. Skyview, maybe 10 minutes.

In any case, Lee's Corner is not near any other Westfield elementary schools. Bull Run is next to multiple Westfield elementary schools. That is community and neighborhoods.

NP-So we are all on the same page that 5.4 miles is closer than 5.8 miles or 7.2 miles? The location in Herndon is closer in miles than those locations in the Bull Run area? Or are we living in an alternate facts universe?

[Anonymous]

Anyone who can read a map can tell that almost all the Chantilly HS zoned elementary neighborhoods are much closer in distance to Westfield than any of the areas currently zoned to Centreville. Westfield HS is in Chantilly.

If FCPS is prioritizing distance in miles to fill seats, Chantilly areas should be moved over to Westfield and Oakton areas should be shifted west to Chantilly and Skyview.

Of course, they have 17 different priorities that they won't rank in any sort of order, so we have no idea what their "real priorities" are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So most of Franklin MS will go to Oakton but then the poor Lees Corner kids will be the only ones there that go on to Chantilly HS? They will have no opportunity to meet kids going to Chantilly while at Franklin? That’s awful.

FCPS does not care about this. Many schools have this same problem now.

Agree. I think worrying about split feeders in middle is pointless. The capacities and locations don't line up in any logical way.

This. I think high school boundaries should come first. Then, if split feeder middles can be avoided, that would be a good thing. But, I don't think they can avoid it always.

Certainly, Crossfield should be at Skyview and stay at Carson. So, it might be necessary to leave Oak Hill kids at Franklin until Fox Mill can be moved to Hughes.

If FCPS stupidly keeps Crossfield at Oakton, then move them to Franklin.

One thing that should not happen is to create multiple split feeders for a neighborhood. (ex. current Emerald Chase which goes to Oak Hill, Carson, Westfield.)
It would not have made sense to send Emerald Chase to Oak Hill before McLearen was built. They were at Floris then and made very good sense. But, after McLearen was built Oak Hill is closer/better for them.
But, now they go to Carson and then to Westfield.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So most of Franklin MS will go to Oakton but then the poor Lees Corner kids will be the only ones there that go on to Chantilly HS? They will have no opportunity to meet kids going to Chantilly while at Franklin? That’s awful.

FCPS does not care about this. Many schools have this same problem now.

Agree. I think worrying about split feeders in middle is pointless. The capacities and locations don't line up in any logical way.

This. I think high school boundaries should come first. Then, if split feeder middles can be avoided, that would be a good thing. But, I don't think they can avoid it always.

Certainly, Crossfield should be at Skyview and stay at Carson. So, it might be necessary to leave Oak Hill kids at Franklin until Fox Mill can be moved to Hughes.

If FCPS stupidly keeps Crossfield at Oakton, then move them to Franklin.

One thing that should not happen is to create multiple split feeders for a neighborhood. (ex. current Emerald Chase which goes to Oak Hill, Carson, Westfield.)
It would not have made sense to send Emerald Chase to Oak Hill before McLearen was built. They were at Floris then and made very good sense. But, after McLearen was built Oak Hill is closer/better for them.
But, now they go to Carson and then to Westfield.

Fox Mill isn’t getting moved to Hughes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who can read a map can tell that almost all the Chantilly HS zoned elementary neighborhoods are much closer in distance to Westfield than any of the areas currently zoned to Centreville. Westfield HS is in Chantilly.

If FCPS is prioritizing distance in miles to fill seats, Chantilly areas should be moved over to Westfield and Oakton areas should be shifted west to Chantilly and Skyview.

Of course, they have 17 different priorities that they won't rank in any sort of order, so we have no idea what their "real priorities" are.

a normal functioning school district would have some kind of sensible priorities, in order of importance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who can read a map can tell that almost all the Chantilly HS zoned elementary neighborhoods are much closer in distance to Westfield than any of the areas currently zoned to Centreville. Westfield HS is in Chantilly.

If FCPS is prioritizing distance in miles to fill seats, Chantilly areas should be moved over to Westfield and Oakton areas should be shifted west to Chantilly and Skyview.

Of course, they have 17 different priorities that they won't rank in any sort of order, so we have no idea what their "real priorities" are.

The priorities are obfuscation and confusion, which leads to frustration and eventually Superintendent Reid getting what she wants while throwing the contractor under the school bus.