Three Officers and Two Paramedics Are Charged in Elijah McClain’s Death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:18:18 again.

Just a few days ago a Colorado police officer parked his cruiser, with a suspect in it, on train tracks. The cruiser and the woman inside were hit by a train. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-train-hits-police-car-woman-handcuffed-back-seat-fort-lupton-colorado/

Parks her on train tracks. On train tracks. Presumably the place where everyone knows not to park and he left a suspect parked there.

This is truly awful. However I am hoping it was just stupidity on the officers' part, and not intentional.

Unlike this guy who broke the arm of a dementia patient and then laughed about it.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/former-officer-sentenced-arrest-73-year-old-woman-with-dementia-that-broke-her-arm/WVRABH3HTZDEVK6T6RVLQ4QLWU/

Bet the cops wife poster will bend over backwards to defend this.

Sigh. No. I know a couple posters here would like me to, but as I have repeatedly said, I do not condone the horrific actions of some officers.

I simply don’t cast aspersions at wide groups of people. I don’t spit on or threaten officers as they go about their days doing their jobs, which has happened several times to my husband. I assume that’s acceptable behavior to a couple posters here. He just deserves it, correct?

I don’t hold police solely responsible for society’s faults. I also know, based on many interactions, volunteer experiences, and participation in community policing initiatives, that there is a lot of good work being done in communities. Instead of making things harder for everyone (police and citizens alike) by intentionally demeaning and denigrating people trying to be good officers and citizens, I choose to help.

I’m saddened by the fact that simply saying something positive caused so much hatred and hostility. I did notice that statistics I posted about use-of-force and police training did not receive angry retorts, which I take to mean that the facts were generally accepted. I wonder, then, why the hate?

You’re welcome to answer, but I’m done responding. This puts hate into the world, and that’s not my thing.

Professional victim right here. I know you think you’re painting police in a positive light but your incessant nattering about how cops just aren’t that bad is painting you all in a worse light. I replied to your facts and figures and you reply with martyrdom, martyrdom you’re so deep into that you can’t even identify it as such. Like “I did notice that statistics I posted about use-of-force and police training did not receive angry retorts, which I take to mean that the facts were generally accepted. I wonder, then, why the hate?” I replied to two of your “statistics” posts with calm, fact based replies and you reply with “Nope, I’m sorry. I will not hate people because somebody on DCUM told me to.” No one told you to hate anyone, bub.

What you and all the other police force cheerleaders pretend not to see is that there are serious and deeply entrenched problems in police forces. Like the Oathkeepers who have been publicly identified. https://apnews.com/article/oath-keepers-leaked-membership-rolls-2ca4195ed3a10e45dd189bf98f3e5a26 Like active white supremacists in police forces. https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/prevalence-white-supremacists-law-enforcement-demands-drastic-change-2022-05-12/ Like the amount of force used against Black people and in Black neighborhoods. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01846-z

When you and your husband’s career line pretend you’re high and mighty and above reproach, guess what? Innocent Black people are going to continue to get murdered. Mentally ill people are going to continue to get injured and murdered. People with hearing problems are going to continue to get beat down. People are going to continue to have a can of pepper spray emptied in their face for attempting to follow disparate commands. But you don’t see a problem and you sure as shoot don’t respond honestly.

So in fact you’re correct. You are putting hate out there. Your instinct to not once again respond thoughtlessly, like a mynah bird, is the correct one. Don’t reply at all until you’ve actually read some of the dozen cites I know that I’ve posted. Don’t come back until you want to learn something, because your endless cheerleading of racism and problems in the force in the face of facts is beyond irritating, it’s pathological.

LOL please state your qualifications. You obviously have no experience in law enforcement, because if you did, you would not be making endless ignorant and hyperbolic statements. There is absolutely no replacement for actual experience. The media and social media is mostly propaganda and it appears you are consuming massive amounts of it! I've worked in law enforcement for over 20 years and it is not nearly as controversial as you are portraying it. It's as if you watched some crazy movie about police work and think it's reality. How old are you? Law enforcement has improved 10x over the last few decades. Maybe you should find a hobby or do something positive, because you sound like someone who will always be disgruntled if you focus on politics.

[Anonymous]

The mindlessly pro police people whine. A lot.

Let’s look at an older example of a well trained police force that doesn’t try to kill people even when they’re trying to kill the police:

[Anonymous]

Law enforcement has improved 10x over the last few decades.

By what measure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Law enforcement has improved 10x over the last few decades.

By what measure?

Training, procedure, accountability, etc.

Anyone with family members who were cops in the 70's or 80's probably heard the stories.

Back in the day, shooting a fleeing felon was legal and some cops carried drop guns. But that is a reality that you will never hear from the BLM crazies or nut jobs in the media.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think there are generally hard situations where officers make a bad decision and then there are cases like this that are just so shocking that it would appear to me that all policing is fundamentally sick on some level. This is one of those cases.

This case has shades of Kelly Thomas but the dirt bag cops got a not guilty verdict there on worse facts for the cops.

I think that whatever presumption or benefit of the doubt police are legally getting needs to be walked back if this kind of situation keeps happening.

And it DOES keep happening. It does. Black innocent or black people guilty, at best, of misdemeanors keep getting murdered by police.

Not every person in the Washington Post database of gunshot victims of the police is Black and some are probably “justified,” but this paragraph should be instructive for the cop’s wife whose spouse and his colleagues can do no wrong (italics mine):

“After Michael Brown, an unarmed Black man, was killed in 2014 by police in Ferguson, Mo., a Post investigation found that the FBI undercounted fatal police shootings by more than half. This is because reporting by police departments is voluntary and many departments fail to do so.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

There. is. a. problem. and police and their advocates pretending that there is not is entrenching the problem. “Although half of the people shot and killed by police are White, Black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of White Americans. Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.” And that database doesn’t even count the people who are killed by the police or their actions like George Floyd, Sandra Bland and Elijah McClain, nor does it cover other sorts of police abuse of their power like planting evidence and raping people. Daniel Holtzclaw is an extreme example, but he’s probably not the only one.

But sure. The police force is a pure as the driven snow and anyone with any evidence to the contrary is crazy or something.

Officer's wife here. Literally NOBODY, including me, is saying that a police force is as "pure as the driven snow." Let's stop the hyperbole, shall we? It doesn't help your argument at all. I have already... repeatedly.. said that there are officer-involved shootings in which the officer is CLEARLY in the wrong. What I take great offense to is the notion that 800,000 officers should be held as inherently bad because of the actions of the few.

There were 1,021 officer-involved shootings in 2021, of which 32 were of unarmed citizens. (This information came from the Washington Post database.) That's in a population of over 333,000,000. There are over 800,000 police officers in the United States, and the majority of them have not even touched a weapon in months except for mandatory training. Over 99% of police interactions have no use-of-force. Do horrific shootings occur? Of course. Nobody... again: nobody... is denying that. The issue I have is with blatantly ignoring the facts and assuming officers are evil. It's not true and it's actually dangerous rhetoric that leads to understaffed shifts.

I've said this before: you are welcome to hate police, but if you post inaccurate information, I will be here to correct it.

Honestly, lady, lol. You have been on here trying to claim that the police forces in this country aren’t riddled with violent and racist people who abuse their power. You refuse to acknowledge that “good” cops looking the other way does, in fact, make them bad cops. You seem like a nice enough person but I don’t think you have any distance on this issue nor can you step back and examine how the experience of policing looks and feels for people in those communities who get brutalized in a way that you, a wife of a police officer, and I, a White upper middle class woman, are hugely unlikely to ever experience.

Breonna Taylor and Amir Locke say hello.

Nope, I’m sorry. I will not hate people because somebody on DCUM told me to. You’re argument rests on a fallacy: that officers routinely look the other way. Where’s your proof, other than a strong desire to make somebody (anybody?) responsible for society’s ills?

If you want to view the world through an “inherently evil” lens, that is your choice. The world may be better served if you do something to make it better, however. Volunteer through a citizen’s academy. Attend community policing activities. Do ride-alongs. Participate in their service opportunities and help communities. Get to know your local police department. I am 100% confident you won’t be so quick to condemn them all once you meet them.

You are condemning some good people who are working toward change. Seems counterproductive to me.

This kind of change?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/likened-kkk-ghost-costumes-ohio-150244898.html

I have never had to personally fear the police, but tell me how the horses from a few days ago look different from this? Literally no one in that office thought that, with the orange lights turned off, these horses don’t look like ghosts - because horses in costume aren’t exactly a social media thing - they look like their riders are in the KKK.
https://monroehistory.org/2019/04/22/first-open-meeting-of-the-ku-klux-klan-in-bloomington/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are generally hard situations where officers make a bad decision and then there are cases like this that are just so shocking that it would appear to me that all policing is fundamentally sick on some level. This is one of those cases.

This case has shades of Kelly Thomas but the dirt bag cops got a not guilty verdict there on worse facts for the cops.

I think that whatever presumption or benefit of the doubt police are legally getting needs to be walked back if this kind of situation keeps happening.

And it DOES keep happening. It does. Black innocent or black people guilty, at best, of misdemeanors keep getting murdered by police.

Not every person in the Washington Post database of gunshot victims of the police is Black and some are probably “justified,” but this paragraph should be instructive for the cop’s wife whose spouse and his colleagues can do no wrong (italics mine):

“After Michael Brown, an unarmed Black man, was killed in 2014 by police in Ferguson, Mo., a Post investigation found that the FBI undercounted fatal police shootings by more than half. This is because reporting by police departments is voluntary and many departments fail to do so.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

There. is. a. problem. and police and their advocates pretending that there is not is entrenching the problem. “Although half of the people shot and killed by police are White, Black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of White Americans. Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.” And that database doesn’t even count the people who are killed by the police or their actions like George Floyd, Sandra Bland and Elijah McClain, nor does it cover other sorts of police abuse of their power like planting evidence and raping people. Daniel Holtzclaw is an extreme example, but he’s probably not the only one.

But sure. The police force is a pure as the driven snow and anyone with any evidence to the contrary is crazy or something.

Officer's wife here. Literally NOBODY, including me, is saying that a police force is as "pure as the driven snow." Let's stop the hyperbole, shall we? It doesn't help your argument at all. I have already... repeatedly.. said that there are officer-involved shootings in which the officer is CLEARLY in the wrong. What I take great offense to is the notion that 800,000 officers should be held as inherently bad because of the actions of the few.

There were 1,021 officer-involved shootings in 2021, of which 32 were of unarmed citizens. (This information came from the Washington Post database.) That's in a population of over 333,000,000. There are over 800,000 police officers in the United States, and the majority of them have not even touched a weapon in months except for mandatory training. Over 99% of police interactions have no use-of-force. Do horrific shootings occur? Of course. Nobody... again: nobody... is denying that. The issue I have is with blatantly ignoring the facts and assuming officers are evil. It's not true and it's actually dangerous rhetoric that leads to understaffed shifts.

I've said this before: you are welcome to hate police, but if you post inaccurate information, I will be here to correct it.

Honestly, lady, lol. You have been on here trying to claim that the police forces in this country aren’t riddled with violent and racist people who abuse their power. You refuse to acknowledge that “good” cops looking the other way does, in fact, make them bad cops. You seem like a nice enough person but I don’t think you have any distance on this issue nor can you step back and examine how the experience of policing looks and feels for people in those communities who get brutalized in a way that you, a wife of a police officer, and I, a White upper middle class woman, are hugely unlikely to ever experience.

Breonna Taylor and Amir Locke say hello.

Nope, I’m sorry. I will not hate people because somebody on DCUM told me to. You’re argument rests on a fallacy: that officers routinely look the other way. Where’s your proof, other than a strong desire to make somebody (anybody?) responsible for society’s ills?

If you want to view the world through an “inherently evil” lens, that is your choice. The world may be better served if you do something to make it better, however. Volunteer through a citizen’s academy. Attend community policing activities. Do ride-alongs. Participate in their service opportunities and help communities. Get to know your local police department. I am 100% confident you won’t be so quick to condemn them all once you meet them.

You are condemning some good people who are working toward change. Seems counterproductive to me.

This kind of change?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/likened-kkk-ghost-costumes-ohio-150244898.html

I have never had to personally fear the police, but tell me how the horses from a few days ago look different from this? Literally no one in that office thought that, with the orange lights turned off, these horses don’t look like ghosts - because horses in costume aren’t exactly a social media thing - they look like their riders are in the KKK.
https://monroehistory.org/2019/04/22/first-open-meeting-of-the-ku-klux-klan-in-bloomington/

Well I am old and I have to admit that I have seen lots of pictures of the KKK but absolutely never saw one with a horse draped in white. In fact, it never, ever crossed my mind. that someone would do that!

I do know that in the past month there were tons of videos circulating on social media of people dressing up their pets as ghosts using white sheets and taking funny pictures. I thought it was cute! Were those people also channeling KKK messages?

Yes, white people do insensitive stuff all the time. In this case, I just don't think any police office sat around and said , heeeyyyy I know what we can do! Let's dress the horses up as members of the KKK! They likely saw the same social media videos and thought it would be funny to dress up the horses and probably even thought they could get a lot of likes if the posted on their social media pages.

[Anonymous]

One officer was convicted of criminally negligent homicide, another was acquitted. The third officer and the paramedics have a different trial in a few weeks.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/us/elijah-mcclain-police-trial-thursday/index.html

[Anonymous]

Oh no, will the stop working even more?

[Anonymous]

The two paramedics who injected Elijah McClain with an overdose of ketamine while he was held down by police were found guilty of criminally negligent homicide.
https://apnews.com/article/elijah-mcclain-death-officers-trial-acef1eabe02b458f53d30d8fe3bf76a4?taid=658630ebca93ff0001d37356&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Law enforcement has improved 10x over the last few decades.

By what measure?

Training, procedure, accountability, etc.

Anyone with family members who were cops in the 70's or 80's probably heard the stories.

Back in the day, shooting a fleeing felon was legal and some cops carried drop guns. But that is a reality that you will never hear from the BLM crazies or nut jobs in the media.

Really not sure you are making the point you think you are making

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The two paramedics who injected Elijah McClain with an overdose of ketamine while he was held down by police were found guilty of criminally negligent homicide.
https://apnews.com/article/elijah-mcclain-death-officers-trial-acef1eabe02b458f53d30d8fe3bf76a4?taid=658630ebca93ff0001d37356&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

Of course the cops got off… police Union is strong. They are basically blackmail rackets.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Aurora police dept is an abomination. Weren't they the same who dragged the little girls out of a car because they assumed it couldn't belong to black people. They were forced to lie face down on asphalt with guns drawn on them. The car wasn't even the make and model that was reported stolen.

There was also video 2 black women took in their apt complex of a 2 cops trying to detain a white woman in a car. The white woman refused to stop and the cops were befuddled. An young black male walks by and the cops dropped dealing with the woman and began hassling him and tried to detain him. The women walked over and let the officers know they had recorded everything and they had no right to stop the young man. He was clearly terrified. One of the cops literally turned around and took off when he saw he was being recorded. The other followed.

There is so much more.

Citation please. There are over 700 officers working for Aurora PD if you didn't know.

Do you know the phrase “a few bad apples spoils the bunch”? Probably not, and if you do, you probably don’t understand what it means. You see, back in the olden times, apples were stored in barrels and if even one or two apples went bad, soon the whole barrel would be rotten. It’s the same thing in policing. How many covert or overt acts of racism by the police have occurred where McClain was murdered? How many “good” cops looked the other way? How many “good” supervisors quietly squashed stories or investigations to protect the bad cops? How many good cops were retaliated against? Now repeat that across the country. There’s no accountability. Black people are just left to dangle on their own, their stories pretty unbelieved or waved away.

We need the police. We need a police force that works for everyone, not just to the benefit of some.

My husband is a police officer. He has been criticized for not doing more to turn in bad cops, even though he has logically and clearly explained that he works on a shift of 5... all honest, hard-working officers who consciously try to make good decisions. He was once accused openly in front of many people for not stopping something that happened across his county among officers he doesn't even know. There are 1,800 officers in his department. He is apparently personally responsible for what all of them do, regardless of whether or not he has ever met them.

That's the problem with your "bad apples" analogy that you try so hard to insult a PP above. Those apples are stored in MANY different barrels. The apples in barrel #245 are not responsible for the applies in barrel #742, but yet that's exactly the mindset we are using when we judge police today. You are only assuming there are legions of "good" cops looking the other way and "good" supervisors squashing stories. Data actually suggests otherwise, especially when you look at use-of-force statistics. The overwhelming majority of police intereactions are actually of the helpful variety, not the type that unfortunately make the news.

This story on this thread is about bad apples. Condemn the bad ones, but let the other ones stand on their own merits.

You’re trying to hard to defend those who cover for bad cops.

Again: you have no proof that officers are inherently bad. That’s the only explanation that would work to explain how all your barrels would be spoiled. There is literally no proof, and you know it. I’m not defending “bad cops.” I’m defending people who went into this profession honorably who are now being held accountable for stuff that happens counties or states away.

If we go down this road, be prepared to talk about how all teachers are inherently bad, all doctors are inherently bad, etc. I can find bad in all groups of people, so if one bad apple spoils an entire profession…

You have no proof that they aren't inherently bad. For the sake of argument, maybe your husband is a "good" cop but if he was with other cops who stopped a black man for no reason other than the color of his skin and who put him in a choke hold, what would your husband do? Would he tell his fellow cops to stop? Would he report them? We all know that he would do absolutely nothing

I’m not taking your bait. No, “we all” don’t know that. I also know that regional statistics in the DMV area also don’t support your bias and hate. Your tone alone suggests that no data, nor documented anecdotes, will change your mind. I’ve been down this road on DCUM before and have noticed that people who want to hate will simply continue to hate, no matter how unwarranted their feelings may be.

To get this thread back on track: condemn the officers who should be condemned. Don’t blame 800,000 for the actions of a few.

Honest questions: do you think the cops that did this thought they could get away with it because they were cops? I cant imagine doing something like that- surrounded by other people and plentiful evidence- and think that I was 1) doing the right thing and 2) if I thought it was wrong, not thinking I wouldnt get caught and YET......this is where the birth and culture of policing in America is most of the problem and it has only gotten worse by the militarization of the policing in America.

I can’t presume to know what went through their minds. I’ve already stated above that I don’t condone their actions. What I also don’t condone is the blanket “all police are bad” nonsense in which certain posters on DCUM love to engage. It’s this type of misplaced anger that puts good officers in danger. Look at local police departments. They are severely understaffed, so officers are responding to calls without sufficient backup. They are working extra shifts, so they are regularly tired. My husband had been spit on for doing nothing more than getting out of his car. He has been pulled away from helping others, including administering first aid, by “well meaning” people. He has had threats put on his car. He is not the enemy.

Your questions above insinuate that he is, that somehow merely suggesting that officers are not a monolith somehow is equal to supporting the actions of officers that day.

I don’t operate that way. I don’t make assumptions about groups of people.

DP but what would help is if police chiefs started laying down the hammer on this behavior and talking about a culture of safety, integrity, service, and respect. But often they don’t. They double down and defend officers accused of horrendous criminal behavior.

Police have a PR problem of their own making.

In my hometown, the new chief did exactly that and studies have changed there. “ Protect and serve” is believable again.

[Anonymous]

This story on this thread is about bad apples. Condemn the bad ones, but let the other ones stand on their own merits.

My husband is a former police officer. When he reported police misconduct and lying about crime stats, MPD ran him off the force. He dealt with harassment, retaliation, you name it. He hates whe I tell our DC to fucck the police because he says it disrespects everything he tried to do when he was on the job. In the end, there are more bad apples than good ones. The good ones have to turn their heads the other way, ask for a transfer and hope for a good one, or leave.

This, people.

Policing in America has gone off the rails.

Y'all need to read up on gang stalking tactics used by law enforcement.

There are a bunch of lawsuits across the nation involving gang stalking. Google them, and don't let anyone gaslight you about how law enforcement is using the power of their office to terrorize the public.