My Unorthodox Life on Netflix

[Anonymous]

As a secular Jew, we are insecure about letting the rest of America see our fundies. This series is over the top, but it does give a peek inside Orthodox Judaism which is just as messed up racially and gender as evangelicals and fundamentalist Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Oj1 here.
Bais yaakov of Monsey provided an excellent education complete with opportunities for Julia to perform in front of hundreds of people. She had access to secular culture and many of her peers got degrees.

Pp with the divorced relative, I'm so sorry that happened to your relative. That sounds really awful. The reality is that "bshow" dating (being married off by others and only meeting once or twice) is atypical except among the strictest Hasidim. More common is my experience: set up by mutual acquaintance, date 7-20 times without touching, get engaged and married fairly young but not 18 - most married btwn 19-23.

[Anonymous]

Oj1 here. Baltimore has a large and beautiful orthodox community. It is culturally a bit different than what we think of as "in town Haredi" (ny/nj/Israel). For example, I have relatives in Baltimore and they are very religious, but they won't let their daughters start dating until they have a college degree, which is a little out of the box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The answer is probably, "religious modesty rules: they don't make sense" but why does Batsheva's husband Ben have a problem with her wearing a pair of jeans because of "modesty" and pants being one step too far, but is totally ok with a micro mini skirt that barely covers her ass paired with a pushup bra and deep cut shirt showing tons of cleavage? I've only watched the first episode, but when she came out in those pants and he was upset my first thought was, "the pants?! what about the sultry off the shoulder cleavage bearing top?!" If any secular man were to be checking her out, it would definitely have been for those boobies, not the wide legged jeans!

Neither are okay. The show emphasis on pants is ridiculous as you say

-oj1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll answer here to the best of my ability. Pp who actually grew up with no movies or secular books and is annoyed and slightly amused by Julia (we knew her as Talia Leibov)

What about the morning prayer she referenced, which the males say, "Thank G-d I'm not a woman"? Is that a loose translation, or no?

It's an exact translation. Women say "that god made me the way He wanted". I personally don't feel offended, but feel free to take offense on my behalf.

I am taken aback by the prayer, not offended. You seem a touch defensive of something you are ostensibly okay with. Perhaps you could put it in context and also expand on the women's prayer. You have an opportunity to educate, take advantage of that and keep in mind that many of us aren't familiar with that culture.

Thank you. I hear you. I'm not really sure how to explain it to someone not from my culture, but it doesn't feel like an insult to me - more like an acknowledgement of how much harder it is to be a woman than a man.
.does that make sense ?

[Anonymous]

oj1 last one for tonight- it is just not true that most girls are married at 18. This is only true of the strictest Hasidim. Nowadays most get married between 19-25, many families insist the girl have a degree so that they can support themselves before marriage, dating is now 7-20 dates (meetings) to engagement with the matchmaker functioning as relationship coach to some extent and facilitating communication - no one is being married off against their will without any recourse.

Divorce is also much more common than it used to be. Many Hasidim are changing their customs after some recent issues, like a graduating class of a very Hassidic high school where 20% of the class was divorced within 2 years of marriage (i only know this because I have family involved - it was kept quiet, but that community is now being encouraged to meet more times before engagement.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an ultra orthodox woman. I was debating responding but I'll give it a shot
The issue most of my friends have isn't that Julia is making up things that never happen. There are plenty of sources for the hell boiling water (not acid) modesty punishment and yes, well, wait til you find out what fundamentalist Muslims and Christians believe.

The problem is we know her. We grew up with her. She did not come from a community like the one she describes. It's like the Nigerian prime minister coming to Harvard and speaking about his difficult life in inner city Chicago.

This. I'm not ultra orthodox personally, but know people that know her/her family and went to the schools she taught in/her kids went to. I haven't seen the whole series, but from what I did see, the core issue is that she did not come from a community like the one she describes.

Also, fwiw, I personally thing silvio is the reason she has been able to take the job she has. it doesn't mean she is not good at it, just that this may be another example of an impressive women claiming to achieve x only on her own--but really because of who her partner is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve only seen two episodes thus far, but can we talk about the husband and his wealth?

Julia is leaving A LOT out of her story. In the first two episodes, they make her seems like a self-made single mom who thrived despite her upbringing.

However, Silvio - her husband - is one of the richest telecom execs in Italy. He started the first broadband ISP, which he sold for $5.7B to Swisscom (his ownership was worth over $1B in 2007).

Using that money, he bought Elite World Group group in 2011
In 2013, he buys La Perla for 60m euros.

In 2013, Julia leaves her husband.

In 2016, Julia’s shoe line collaborated with La Perla. She becomes creative director of La Perla
In 2018, she becomes head of Elite World Group.
In 2019, Julia ans Silvio are married.

The husband has immense financial power over the kids and family. I guarantee we are not getting the whole story.

Absolutely. I am Jewish and not orthodox. I grew up "observant" conservative ( not to be confused with politically conservative, I mean Conservative synagogue as opposed to orthodox or reform). I am now, as an older adult, culturally Jewish, not observant at all, as in completely and
entirely secular.

Having said that, I am very, very familiar with orthodoxy, understand the various differences which is hard to explain to others. Not all orthodox is Hassidic, there
are even different Hassidic sects with different practices, modern orthodox is also different, Yesivish is different, etc. It's not going to be explained here, really. One has to experience the cultures, the areas, the schools, the shuls. I am very familiar with Monsey Yeshivish.

I work and live among the Yeshivish orthodox here in this area. I have family in this type of culture. My response to this program will probably surprise most.

I think this show is actually doing a huge disservice to what they appear to want to do- which is probably to denigrate the strict and fundamentalist culture and show what it looks like to break away. Look, I am no fan of orthodoxy. At all. And many of the take aways are true...the role of women, poor education, the " baby making" , arranged marriages, lack of sexual education, racism, and no acceptance of homosexuality at all. And, yeah, they are all largely Trumpers, just to add that in, for
reasons that are too ridiculous and scary to go into here. Sure, however, what I see in Julia's new world is also a cult. A cult of narcissism, extravagance of everything, lookism, skinny models, fake relationships, transactional relationships just to get started. I'm kind of disgusted that this is being touted as what's out there for the orthodox if only they would stop allowing themselves to be brainwashed. Really? She keeps using the word "brainwashed," yet isn't that what she's doing to her kids, too? She doesn't really have the right to interfere in her daughter's marriage, or her younger son's choices. That's for them to decide.

Julia's world is not an example of the entire secular world, or even most of it. She is an example of a segment made up in the IG social media world which promotes her lifestyle, and not all corners of the IG or secular world look like this. None of my friends start frenching with their husband upon greeting, my kids don't " make out" with a date at a business function, my boobs aren't continually overflowing my shirt everywhere, and we all don't drive Bentleys or anything close. Her relationship and sexual tutelage of her children is inappropriate, and I am non-religious, not a prude in any sense, and left leaning as they come. I found those discussions super weird.

Does she eat? She's had 4 children and she wears a 0. She learned about eating disorders from her previous world ( yes, it's a thing in the community), but really ratcheted it up for her next one where starving is an art form. Not really impressed, to be frank. I give her credit for having the guts to leave her unhappy marriage, her religious life that she couldn't endure, and starting her own life, but her $$$$ and empire comes from her new husband. She just traded one cult for another.

Lastly, she and the Kardashians have GOT to stop saying "literally." This is, though, LITERALLY one of the worst examples of people leaving an insular lifestyle, but, also, it needs to be fair and it isnt. The information given about the Monsey community, or the Baltimore, or Silver Spring, or wherever...is very out of context. I sure don't want to live like that, but the people are not monsters nor are they stupid and deluded. The reason cultures exist is very complex, it's just not that black and white. There should be more general information regarding families and community, with real examination of the people involved- they can't just be dismissed as black hatters and wig wearers vs mini skirts, bisexuality, and porn.

I also feel as though her children might be exploited in this show. The entire show makes me uncomfortable, and I was hoping to see some genuine exploration of lifestyle and culture.

Rating: No stars given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll answer here to the best of my ability. Pp who actually grew up with no movies or secular books and is annoyed and slightly amused by Julia (we knew her as Talia Leibov)

What about the morning prayer she referenced, which the males say, "Thank G-d I'm not a woman"? Is that a loose translation, or no?

It's an exact translation. Women say "that god made me the way He wanted". I personally don't feel offended, but feel free to take offense on my behalf.

I feel offended for myself. That’s disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll answer here to the best of my ability. Pp who actually grew up with no movies or secular books and is annoyed and slightly amused by Julia (we knew her as Talia Leibov)

What about the morning prayer she referenced, which the males say, "Thank G-d I'm not a woman"? Is that a loose translation, or no?

It's an exact translation. Women say "that god made me the way He wanted". I personally don't feel offended, but feel free to take offense on my behalf.

I feel offended for myself. That’s disgusting.

Oj1 - I tried to explain this above. I'll quote what I wrote

Thank you. I hear you. I'm not really sure how to explain it to someone not from my culture, but it doesn't feel like an insult to me - more like an acknowledgement of how much harder it is to be a woman than a man.
.does that make sense ?

I'll try go explain what it feels like to me a bit more.

Wouldn't it be great if men realized that they have it easier in life? This blessing acknowledges that men generally have it easier. No periods, pregnancy, more pleasure.

[Anonymous]

Still working my way through the season, but she seems way too involved with Robert.

Is that her real hair?

[Anonymous]

For a more balanced view, here is an interview with an Orthodox woman from Borough Park, where she talks about her life, work and family. In my experience (I am not Orthodox, but have several friends who are), this is more reflective of the community than what various “unorthodox “ movies are portraying.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDFpt6lcew

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still working my way through the season, but she seems way too involved with Robert.

Is that her real hair?

Oj1. I assume so unless she said otherwise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a more balanced view, here is an interview with an Orthodox woman from Borough Park, where she talks about her life, work and family. In my experience (I am not Orthodox, but have several friends who are), this is more reflective of the community than what various “unorthodox “ movies are portraying.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDFpt6lcew

This guy is libertarian right wing. Feel free to catch his other " balanced" videos, like the one on the border.
Re: video" You'll die faster from worrying, than COVID", please read up on how the NY orthodox dealt with COVID. They didn't.

FWIW, to be balanced, I've enclosed a link. I am not orthodox, don't agree with most of their religious and community tenets, but I did appreciate this written rebuttal on a number of levels, which surprised even me.

The Forward is a Jewish newspaper, usually catering to the observant.

https://forward.com/scribe/473098/i-grew-up-in-the-same-community-as-the-star-of-netflixs-my-unorthodox-life/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a more balanced view, here is an interview with an Orthodox woman from Borough Park, where she talks about her life, work and family. In my experience (I am not Orthodox, but have several friends who are), this is more reflective of the community than what various “unorthodox “ movies are portraying.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDFpt6lcew

This guy is libertarian right wing. Feel free to catch his other " balanced" videos, like the one on the border.
Re: video" You'll die faster from worrying, than COVID", please read up on how the NY orthodox dealt with COVID. They didn't.

FWIW, to be balanced, I've enclosed a link. I am not orthodox, don't agree with most of their religious and community tenets, but I did appreciate this written rebuttal on a number of levels, which surprised even me.

The Forward is a Jewish newspaper, usually catering to the observant.

https://forward.com/scribe/473098/i-grew-up-in-the-same-community-as-the-star-of-netflixs-my-unorthodox-life/

Oj1 - the forward actually caters to the Jewish involved but non observant, but I happen to really like this article.