Regular decision at UVA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone's kid gotten Echols Scholar in-state?

Mine has. Applied ED. He had the qualifications for Ivies but as we know -the odds are very against anyone unhooked (which he isn’t).

[Anonymous]

^ I mean he is! Unhooked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding first generation admits, there tends to be a lot of overlap between this group, minorities, and Pell grant recipients. So, if the university says 20% of the admitted or attending class is first gen, 25% is minority, and 10% received Pell grants, the percent of unique students between these groups might be 28% (some white kids might have received Pell grants). However, just because these kids have these designations, doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified.

The point is that elite schools are not really admitting more minorities. Instead, they are shifting the “descriptors” of the minorities they accept based on shifting ranking criteria and social pressures. For example, elite colleges used to admit more Blacks from wealthy backgrounds. These students essentially had much the same background as the white admits. However, when first gen and Pell grants became a thing, they started admitting more minorities with those attributes and fewer wealthy minorities. Now, there are lots of articles about poor minorities admitted to prestigious colleges that don’t feel like they “fit” with the culture. Anyway, be careful about your assumptions and how you read the data.

Agreed. A lot of this is marketing/ranking driven.

[Anonymous]

Are the BoV going to hike tuition? It's a proposed 3.1% hike.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the first gen focus is a way to admit a more racially and ethnically diverse student body without getting sued over affirmative action policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"supporting an organization that hid child molestation."


For real? That is terrible!!

oh stop it. Grow up. Do you really think the Council “knowingly” supported Child molestation like the Catholic Church. Do you want a detailed list of all of the meetings and conferences and clearances he had to go through to be a VOLUNTEER scoutmaster?

Yep, quite a lot like the Catholic Church, actually. Truly sad and embarrassing that scout defenders won’t acknowledge what happened. Look up the “p list”. The organization hid this problem for years. Then they ran like cowards behind bankruptcy. It has nothing to do with your kid’s work. Scout organization is disgusting. But it won’t change your mind. There’s nothing that could, clearly. [/quot

The P list was to identify those men who could not have access to the boys. The Catholic Church did not do that. The teainkk okng to be a scout master was unbelievably rigorous to ensure only the men and women volunteers who had been screened were leaders. But then the gay community screamed foul so they had to be let in both as scouts and leaders ... and you know the rest. Bankruptcy is a the only sane way of combatting the 100s of trial lawyers trying to make money by adding on all sorts of individuals with specious claims and extraneous torts.. So it all comes down to lawyer greed. The only way to survive is have the mess managed by a bankruptcy judge and begin liquidating. There’s no hope of reorganization yet so the trial lawyers have won and destroyed something that was very good and important in our family’s life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ UVA needs to increase its share of first-generation students to compete with UCLA and UMich. It will improve its US news ranking. 695 offered in EA/ED round is actually not that many. UVA makes roughly 9000 offers each year. So it's not even 10%. UVA's yield is only around 40%. Don't equate the admitted number with the final enrollment.

So this is another exercise in colleges slavishly doing whatever is needed to jump
In the rankings. Public universities should not be playing that game.

It's a good policy too. UVA should be commended for focusing on it. Again they are doing it incrementally. The data so far doesn't suggest a big jump. PP was confused about the offered slots (less than half will matriculate) vs. the enrollment target.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regarding first generation admits, there tends to be a lot of overlap between this group, minorities, and Pell grant recipients. So, if the university says 20% of the admitted or attending class is first gen, 25% is minority, and 10% received Pell grants, the percent of unique students between these groups might be 28% (some white kids might have received Pell grants). However, just because these kids have these designations, doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified.

The point is that elite schools are not really admitting more minorities. Instead, they are shifting the “descriptors” of the minorities they accept based on shifting ranking criteria and social pressures. For example, elite colleges used to admit more Blacks from wealthy backgrounds. These students essentially had much the same background as the white admits. However, when first gen and Pell grants became a thing, they started admitting more minorities with those attributes and fewer wealthy minorities. Now, there are lots of articles about poor minorities admitted to prestigious colleges that don’t feel like they “fit” with the culture. Anyway, be careful about your assumptions and how you read the data.

Agreed. A lot of this is marketing/ranking driven.

+1. Agreed. Which is unfortunate. Public schools should be serving their state’s mission and the children of the state. They should not be worrying about USN&WR rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regarding first generation admits, there tends to be a lot of overlap between this group, minorities, and Pell grant recipients. So, if the university says 20% of the admitted or attending class is first gen, 25% is minority, and 10% received Pell grants, the percent of unique students between these groups might be 28% (some white kids might have received Pell grants). However, just because these kids have these designations, doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified.

The point is that elite schools are not really admitting more minorities. Instead, they are shifting the “descriptors” of the minorities they accept based on shifting ranking criteria and social pressures. For example, elite colleges used to admit more Blacks from wealthy backgrounds. These students essentially had much the same background as the white admits. However, when first gen and Pell grants became a thing, they started admitting more minorities with those attributes and fewer wealthy minorities. Now, there are lots of articles about poor minorities admitted to prestigious colleges that don’t feel like they “fit” with the culture. Anyway, be careful about your assumptions and how you read the data.

Agreed. A lot of this is marketing/ranking driven.

+1. Agreed. Which is unfortunate. Public schools should be serving their state’s mission and the children of the state. They should not be worrying about USN&WR rankings.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regarding first generation admits, there tends to be a lot of overlap between this group, minorities, and Pell grant recipients. So, if the university says 20% of the admitted or attending class is first gen, 25% is minority, and 10% received Pell grants, the percent of unique students between these groups might be 28% (some white kids might have received Pell grants). However, just because these kids have these designations, doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified.

The point is that elite schools are not really admitting more minorities. Instead, they are shifting the “descriptors” of the minorities they accept based on shifting ranking criteria and social pressures. For example, elite colleges used to admit more Blacks from wealthy backgrounds. These students essentially had much the same background as the white admits. However, when first gen and Pell grants became a thing, they started admitting more minorities with those attributes and fewer wealthy minorities. Now, there are lots of articles about poor minorities admitted to prestigious colleges that don’t feel like they “fit” with the culture. Anyway, be careful about your assumptions and how you read the data.

Agreed. A lot of this is marketing/ranking driven.

+1. Agreed. Which is unfortunate. Public schools should be serving their state’s mission and the children of the state. They should not be worrying about USN&WR rankings.

+2

+3. I would also feel better if I knew the first-generation studies we are supporting with our Virginia tax dollars are Virginians. California should take care for f it’s low-income, first-generation students with its xlnt UC system and more affordable Cal State system and community college system. Virginians should be able to call upon its own schools to help the low-income, first generation students. So far neither uVA or VT are reporting those figures. For the same reason. I don’t think public universities should be engaging in yield protection. VT clearly did so this year —in a year in which those families really needed the I -state tech school for financial reasons. Historically, UVA did not but after tomorrow night’s results roll in we will have a better sense of that.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the typos above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ UVA needs to increase its share of first-generation students to compete with UCLA and UMich. It will improve its US news ranking. 695 offered in EA/ED round is actually not that many. UVA makes roughly 9000 offers each year. So it's not even 10%. UVA's yield is only around 40%. Don't equate the admitted number with the final enrollment.

So this is another exercise in colleges slavishly doing whatever is needed to jump
In the rankings. Public universities should not be playing that game.

Perhaps UVA needs to grow a bit. Virginia has 8.5 million residents and its flagship only serves 17,000 undergraduates, 35% of whom are OOS. You can have a highly ranked elite public school with 30,000 undergraduates. Berkeley, Michigan, and UCLA seem to manage it quite well.

There's no room. UVA was built in 1819 and is landlocked, trainlocked and has insufficient parking as it is. Due to the fact it can't expand, UVA started GMU in 1957 as its northern campus. GMU was then made an independent university in 1972. Berkley was established in 1868 and UCLA in 1882, both when land was available everywhere in California and dirt cheap. That's why California has such splendid large campuses. That's also why is has such a wide-open and straight freeway system (which used to be great to drive on until everyone moved out there). No need for eminent domain and land was next to free.

This is also why UVA-Wise was established in 1954.

The Commonwealth is pouring money into the other 40 institutions of public higher learning in the state. When my DS attended GMU, it felt like non-stop construction and it is still going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ UVA needs to increase its share of first-generation students to compete with UCLA and UMich. It will improve its US news ranking. 695 offered in EA/ED round is actually not that many. UVA makes roughly 9000 offers each year. So it's not even 10%. UVA's yield is only around 40%. Don't equate the admitted number with the final enrollment.

So this is another exercise in colleges slavishly doing whatever is needed to jump
In the rankings. Public universities should not be playing that game.

It's a good policy too. UVA should be commended for focusing on it. Again they are doing it incrementally. The data so far doesn't suggest a big jump. PP was confused about the offered slots (less than half will matriculate) vs. the enrollment target.

It "May" be a good policy but 56% of the students in the U.S. system are already "first-generation" so why expand that category? 952 students selected ED and EA for 3,750 first-generation seats is not "doing it incrementally". The class size is only 3,750. ED was 968. PP wasn't confused - she or he was clear that "no one will know how many will accept" because no one does know. This has been one wild year. Parents are financially scared and don't want to overcommit. Suddenly those 76K a year SLACs don't look that budget friendly anymore. Remember two years back when VT was severely oversubscribed? The same could easily happen here if the 6,000 accepted EA turn up, the 968 ED show up, and the 952 first-generations (yes they are melded into the EA and ED columns but we don't know to what degree) show up. That's over 7,020 students for 3,750 slots. Even if ALL the first-generations are subsumed by the ED and EA categories, still it's possible (but unlikely) that 6,968 students will show up for 3,750 slots and we haven't even begun to hear what the RD decisions will be.

Let's say 1/3 of the EA students show up (which has been roughly a good call in normal years). That's 968ED, + 2,000EA show up for 2,968 slots. Let's say the 952 figure of first-generation are totally subsumed within other categories on Ed and EA - that's still 2,968 students showing up PLUS the students that deferred one year due to Covid (200?) = 3,168 students already coming, which leaves 400 seats for regular decision and some 30,000 applicants. On top of this mess is the fact that both VT and UVA have to allocate enough space for the guaranteed transfer students, which, while not first years, still need dorm space, food service and professor time.

In any event, I don't think VT or UVA can do much about the RD decisions until they affirmatively know how many of the EA students will show up. That won't happen until May lst. So tomorrow I imagine the bulk of the RD students will be waitlisted. Some of the deferrals might get in. Some might be outright rejected. But it won't be pretty. Then, as both school gets a better idea of numbers, they will return to the the waitlist and start cherry-picking off that. That's the safe way to proceed to avoid oversubscription. Just my opinion. Good luck to those trying tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to both a HS counselor and two college admission officers that we know, being an Eagle Scout doesn’t count for anything anymore.

They are wrong. All the boys from our troop who applied to UVa got in ED or EA. And a recent UVA Eagle Scout grad just got into Oxford for grad work. It does follow you in life. There's a lot of literature on it. See, e.g., https://troop106gnyc.org/can-being-an-eagle-scout-help-you-get-into-college-heres-what-17-schools-told-us/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ UVA needs to increase its share of first-generation students to compete with UCLA and UMich. It will improve its US news ranking. 695 offered in EA/ED round is actually not that many. UVA makes roughly 9000 offers each year. So it's not even 10%. UVA's yield is only around 40%. Don't equate the admitted number with the final enrollment.

So this is another exercise in colleges slavishly doing whatever is needed to jump
In the rankings. Public universities should not be playing that game.

It's a good policy too. UVA should be commended for focusing on it. Again they are doing it incrementally. The data so far doesn't suggest a big jump. PP was confused about the offered slots (less than half will matriculate) vs. the enrollment target.

It "May" be a good policy but 56% of the students in the U.S. system are already "first-generation" so why expand that category? 952 students selected ED and EA for 3,750 first-generation seats is not "doing it incrementally". The class size is only 3,750. ED was 968. PP wasn't confused - she or he was clear that "no one will know how many will accept" because no one does know. This has been one wild year. Parents are financially scared and don't want to overcommit. Suddenly those 76K a year SLACs don't look that budget friendly anymore. Remember two years back when VT was severely oversubscribed? The same could easily happen here if the 6,000 accepted EA turn up, the 968 ED show up, and the 952 first-generations (yes they are melded into the EA and ED columns but we don't know to what degree) show up. That's over 7,020 students for 3,750 slots. Even if ALL the first-generations are subsumed by the ED and EA categories, still it's possible (but unlikely) that 6,968 students will show up for 3,750 slots and we haven't even begun to hear what the RD decisions will be.

Let's say 1/3 of the EA students show up (which has been roughly a good call in normal years). That's 968ED, + 2,000EA show up for 2,968 slots. Let's say the 952 figure of first-generation are totally subsumed within other categories on Ed and EA - that's still 2,968 students showing up PLUS the students that deferred one year due to Covid (200?) = 3,168 students already coming, which leaves 400 seats for regular decision and some 30,000 applicants. On top of this mess is the fact that both VT and UVA have to allocate enough space for the guaranteed transfer students, which, while not first years, still need dorm space, food service and professor time.

In any event, I don't think VT or UVA can do much about the RD decisions until they affirmatively know how many of the EA students will show up. That won't happen until May lst. So tomorrow I imagine the bulk of the RD students will be waitlisted. Some of the deferrals might get in. Some might be outright rejected. But it won't be pretty. Then, as both school gets a better idea of numbers, they will return to the the waitlist and start cherry-picking off that. That's the safe way to proceed to avoid oversubscription. Just my opinion. Good luck to those trying tomorrow.

I just want to add for those parents who have sad kids tomorrow that these remaining seats - however many there are - will also be used to ensure that UVA meets its URM target, as well as its international, native-American, all 50 states, Blue Ridge Scholar, Jefferson Scholars (who got the scholarship but aren't technically in yet - it does happen), male-female balance, low-income, Pell Grant possibilities, and more first-generation students, Olympiad winner, athletes, and legacy targets). Something has to give in this system. It's just crazy. We have too many sub-categories of special treatment.