Regular decision at UVA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go read College Confidential on VT and UVA. And also the subreddits and you will see the same. Students and famlies upset that they counted VT as a reach, match or safety and got zero and are desperately hoping to get off the deferral/waitlists.

There is a thread about VT - VT is taking more URM this year, and the stats are lower than usual, so lots of higher stats kids denied.

Lots of higher stats kids were denied because of yield protection. VT assumes higher stats kids aren't going to ultimately go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I'm wrestling with. I think UVA has gone overboard this year with the first-generation segment of applicants. We know UVA received almost 50,000 applications, a 17 percent increase this year. Out of the ED applications (38% increase), 968 were accepted. A few were rejected. The rest were deferred. Then 28,897 students applied for EA. 21,048 of those applications came from OOS. 18% OOS students were offered a slot.

But a whopping 692 first-generationers (remember the entire class is 3,750) were offered and ED or EA slot. I could be wrong but I don't think admissions has been transparent about how many of the first-generation students were EA or ED.

So with a class of 3,750, you first have to subtract those that took a gap year due to covid. Let's just say 200. the ED (minus or take a few that bowed out due to finances). Now, take 3,550 and subtract the EDs of 968 and you are down to 2,582. You have now a 6000 accepted EA (no one knows in this year how many of them will show up - family finances will play a huge party). So you are now in negative territory (2,582 - 6,000). Also you have those students who were deferred, not rejected from ED. If one-half of those 6,000 showed up, UVA is still over subscribed. If a third show up, then there are 582 slots left for ED deferred, EA deferred and RD. Now toss in the athletes (may already be in), URM, more low-income, Blue Ridge Scholars, the Jefferson Scholars, rich daddys who have made calls and it increasingly becomes an imposible situation for those like OP's kid.

What I'm pondering and haven't settled on a decision yet is why are so many slots going to in-state and OOS first-generation students? 692 slots for a class of 3,750 seems extreme. I'm a first-generation student (and white) and back then it didn't count for squat. No one even thought of it. Yes, I understand USN&WR now uses this category as a "social mobility" factor, but why are we rewarding students simply because their parents didn't finish college? Mine didn't. My grandfather didn't even finish middle school because his father died and he had to take care of the farm. VT is also doing the same.

I think -all things being equal - there are other more important subcategories in Admissions such as URM, Blue Ridge Scholars (disadvantaged and poor), etc. etc. Why is first-generation now so hot. Even as of 2015, 54% of all students were first-generationers (although most of us didn't know it). And only 14-16% of those were minorities.
https://firstgen.naspa.org/research-and-policy/national-data-fact-sheets-on-first-generation-college-students/national-data-fact-sheets. That may have changed. So I don't think you can say this is pushing race issues. Is this all just because USN&WR added the social mobility criteria and schools must now report the number to USN&WR.

But where does that leave the superstars at Virginia's top public and private schools. Or the TJ superstars? It's happening at TJ too. The Commonwealth's top kids aren't getting into the flagship or the state's best tech school. Is this right? I'm very proud of the fact that I am self-made with no help from anyone along the way. I should not have been rewarded that my parents did not graduate from college. And I was low-income too.

What do you think (and don't make this a DCUM yelling match). I'm genuinely curious.

Another step I think needs to be taken is to increase the number of seats at Virginian schools as other states have. Texas is top 6% of public high school class (a fairer one than Virginia's - and easier on the students and the parents); California has virtually pushed out all the OOS when the voters got fed up paying for a very good system (UC, Cal State, Community college) but their own chldren couldn't get in. UVA is still at 35%OOS and I bet that a lot of them are the first-generation students that Jim Ryan is so keen on admitting.

https://news.virginia.edu/content/historic-application-year-uva-offers-early-action-admission-more-6000

The current president, Jim Ryan, made First Gen acceptance a priority when he came on board. The legislature sets the in state/out of state numbers and how public colleges/universities are designed; this is not a a high priority for them. Charlottesville is small compared to California markets, Texas markets etc. Virginia does not have a large state system like UCs, UTs, UNCs, etc.

But the same is taking place with the relatively new Preisdent of VT. It's "First-generation" or bust for him. WHY? Is it just the USN&WR ratings pushing this? Go read the VT EA results, and the UVA EA results pages on this forum and see the kinds of statistics that are being deferred from TJ. Also there's a TJ acceptance thread with a similar point of view. (BTW I have no affiliation with VT). But these kids who are rejected or deferred have outstanding statistics and they are being favored over the first-generation applicants. Many VA families really NEED Virginia Tech this year because of financial reasons due to covid. The OOS and private tech schools are too expensive = lots of frustration.

Also UVA gets only a small percentage of its budget from the Commonwealth. It can do what it wants for the most part. And the Commonwealth WILL have to pay attention when enough parents in Virginia rise up and say "enough OSS - my own kid can't get into any of the UC schools and I've paid taxes for 30 years". Public institutions do have a different mission than privates. The other states have already starting curtailing the OSS programs.

The Commonwealth has 41 institutions of higher learning, which includes the community colleges. Per student population that's pretty amazing.

For UVa president it’s because he himself was a First Gen

Huh? From Where??

First generation doesn't mean first generation American. It means first generation attending college. He was the first to attend college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to both a HS counselor and two college admission officers that we know, being an Eagle Scout doesn’t count for anything anymore.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to both a HS counselor and two college admission officers that we know, being an Eagle Scout doesn’t count for anything anymore.

They are wrong. All the boys from our troop who applied to UVa got in ED or EA. And a recent UVA Eagle Scout grad just got into Oxford for grad work. It does follow you in life. There's a lot of literature on it. See, e.g., https://troop106gnyc.org/can-being-an-eagle-scout-help-you-get-into-college-heres-what-17-schools-told-us/

They reached out to dozens and only included the 17 positive ones in the article. It's also a scouts affiliated article, totally unbiased, I'm sure This is an excerpt:

The common thread: being an Eagle Scout won’t get you into your dream school on its own. But when combined with strong grades, a quality essay, solid test scores (if the colleges on your list still require them) and impressive letters of recommendation, that Eagle Scout Award can give you the extra edge you need.

Pretty much these kids with the strong grades and impressive letters of recommendation were getting in anyway.

[Anonymous]

Is UVA out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is UVA out?

Decisions come out tonight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to both a HS counselor and two college admission officers that we know, being an Eagle Scout doesn’t count for anything anymore.

They are wrong. All the boys from our troop who applied to UVa got in ED or EA. And a recent UVA Eagle Scout grad just got into Oxford for grad work. It does follow you in life. There's a lot of literature on it. See, e.g., https://troop106gnyc.org/can-being-an-eagle-scout-help-you-get-into-college-heres-what-17-schools-told-us/

They reached out to dozens and only included the 17 positive ones in the article. It's also a scouts affiliated article, totally unbiased, I'm sure This is an excerpt:

The common thread: being an Eagle Scout won’t get you into your dream school on its own. But when combined with strong grades, a quality essay, solid test scores (if the colleges on your list still require them) and impressive letters of recommendation, that Eagle Scout Award can give you the extra edge you need.

Pretty much these kids with the strong grades and impressive letters of recommendation were getting in anyway.

Exactly. If anyone thinks that being an Eagle Scout "counts" the same as having a strong essay, letter of recommendation, etc. - or more than a non-scout achievements that another applicant may have, they are delusional.

[Anonymous]

Because there has been so much commentary on the value of the Eagle Scout award and posting of views related to child abuse, I thought I would briefly reply. I am the Scoutmaster of the all-girl Scouts BSA Troop in the District that formed two years ago. We have posted on this site over the two years we and are pleased to share that many youth members came our way in this manner.

To the point, college admissions counselors consider two principal indicators of demonstrated leadership achieved through Scouts BSA (formerly, “Boy Scouts”). The first is for a young person to have served in the senior elected youth position, called the “Senior Patrol Leader”. In our 50-girl organization run by the youth, this is akin to being the young CEO of our $50,000/year operation. Planning, execution, everything. Of course, she and our other 10 youth leaders receive significant advice from our nine Scoutmasters and 21 adult committee members (majority women). Friends of mine who are involved in Big 10 admissions have directly confirmed this to me.

The value of the Eagle Scout award is also a significant asset on applications. It typically takes 3-4 years to achieve and requires leadership, outdoor and environmental competence, substantive study, community service and other activities far beyond the scope of this posting to detail. The "Eagle Project" is actually a fairly small part of the process. My admissions counselor friends inform me that having the Eagle award will not necessarily waive an applicant in. However, when demonstrated determination and willingness to persevere in an academic program is a factor in an application, having the Eagle award will nearly always result in admission. Greater advantages are provided to applicants to military academies and persons enlisting in the military services.

The tragic child abuse circumstances that affected children participating in BSA, school, youth sports and so many other youth-serving organizations during the 60s – 80s cannot be explained-away. This meritorious topic was discussed in detail in previous postings. My direct experience and observation these past two years has demonstrated to me that the Scouts BSA program of today is hyper-safe for our young people. I am pleased that the national organization is in the process of setting-up a trust to provide a degree of justice to those shown to have been victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:However, when demonstrated determination and willingness to persevere in an academic program is a factor in an application, having the Eagle award will nearly always result in admission.

No more than a demonstrated determination and willingness to persevere in another activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because there has been so much commentary on the value of the Eagle Scout award and posting of views related to child abuse, I thought I would briefly reply. I am the Scoutmaster of the all-girl Scouts BSA Troop in the District that formed two years ago. We have posted on this site over the two years we and are pleased to share that many youth members came our way in this manner.

To the point, college admissions counselors consider two principal indicators of demonstrated leadership achieved through Scouts BSA (formerly, “Boy Scouts”). The first is for a young person to have served in the senior elected youth position, called the “Senior Patrol Leader”. In our 50-girl organization run by the youth, this is akin to being the young CEO of our $50,000/year operation. Planning, execution, everything. Of course, she and our other 10 youth leaders receive significant advice from our nine Scoutmasters and 21 adult committee members (majority women). Friends of mine who are involved in Big 10 admissions have directly confirmed this to me.

The value of the Eagle Scout award is also a significant asset on applications. It typically takes 3-4 years to achieve and requires leadership, outdoor and environmental competence, substantive study, community service and other activities far beyond the scope of this posting to detail. The "Eagle Project" is actually a fairly small part of the process. My admissions counselor friends inform me that having the Eagle award will not necessarily waive an applicant in. However, when demonstrated determination and willingness to persevere in an academic program is a factor in an application, having the Eagle award will nearly always result in admission. Greater advantages are provided to applicants to military academies and persons enlisting in the military services.

The tragic child abuse circumstances that affected children participating in BSA, school, youth sports and so many other youth-serving organizations during the 60s – 80s cannot be explained-away. This meritorious topic was discussed in detail in previous postings. My direct experience and observation these past two years has demonstrated to me that the Scouts BSA program of today is hyper-safe for our young people. I am pleased that the national organization is in the process of setting-up a trust to provide a degree of justice to those shown to have been victims.

Where is your data to back up this statement? I have never, ever seen the scouts post numbers to support this.

Just how many "admissions counselor friends" do you have? Don't you think they are trying to be kind to a friend who is a scoutmaster?

[Anonymous]

The admissions counselors receive training on which youth service organizations conduct programs that offer certified awards requiring multiple years of culminating achievement. Counselors make their own determinations on what to count and how much weight to assign. I would imagine Eagle Scout would count for more than a one-off activity or single-service project. My friends tell me that things like Eagle are given more weight because they can be relied-upon -- in contrast to applications that feature numerous clubs or service project "trips" where seriousness of purpose is difficult to ascertain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would imagine Eagle Scout would count for more than a one-off activity or single-service project.

There's no basis for this at all. In fact, a number of the approved ES projects that I've seen are pretty ridiculous and took barely any effort at all - organizing a food drive, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would imagine Eagle Scout would count for more than a one-off activity or single-service project.

There's no basis for this at all. In fact, a number of the approved ES projects that I've seen are pretty ridiculous and took barely any effort at all - organizing a food drive, etc.

We get it, you don't believe ES is worthy and that scouts in general are a worthless endeavor. We also get that you know nothing of what it takes to become an ES. Can we move on now?

[Anonymous]

stats are up on Dean J's blog. Net net:

16,000+ regular decision apps
965 acceptances (14% of in state and 3% of OOS)

Absolutely brutal.
http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com

[Anonymous]

My admissions friends are fairly senior university folks who I have known for a long time -- and not in connection with Scouting. I've been on alumni student affairs advisory committees and have more than a passing feel for admissions. Scouting organizations don't post numbers on this because the universities do not publicly comment on such things. I'm not here to present trial-type evidence on these matters. However, it is generally-accepted practice in university admissions that applicant activities and awards are given varying weight depending on how certain the admissions officer can be that the claimed activity or award indeed demonstrates a meaningful activity having been engaged-in and completed. Eagle is one of many awards that are given significant weight because of relative difficulty and reliability.