NYT Op Ed from a pediatrician - again arguing against schools closures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/opinion/schools-closing-covid.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I couldn't agree more and am really disappointed with MCPS and their non-scientific "health metrics" which we will certainly never meet, meaning no in-person school for our kids this year.

This isn’t about the kids. This is a workplace safety issue. The sooner you realize that and understand that your feelings as a parent are completely irrelevant, the sooner you will understand the reality of the situation.

Why the hell would a doctor write about schools? Maybe a teacher should write about the medical workplace?

Seriously. Unless teachers can be outfitted with covid floor level ppe, no way they should be forced to teach in person.

Yet somehow daycare workers and private school teachers and Catholic school teachers and German teachers are teaching in person ...

That other employees are exploited -- likely because they lack protections afforded by strong unions -- hardly means that others should similarly be exploited.

I am a Catholic school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since early September. I do not feel exploited, nor do my colleagues in my school. Please do not presume. We are adults capable of assessing our own risks and of making our own decisions.

+100000 public school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since late August. Do NOT speak for us.

Do you have 35 kids in a classroom who change classrooms for 8 periods in an over capacity building where each teacher doesn't have their own classroom and very little cleaning?

Our school has overcrowding issues and I am a high school teacher so yes students change classes. Our district STARTED with the default of opening schools this fall and then asked "how can we make it work?". I am grateful for all of the work my district did to get creative in finding solutions to the various issues associated with re-opening schools instead of looking at the existence of issues and throwing their hands up "well, those issues exist so I guess we can't open."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

But not a teacher. Apparently elementary school teachers are the world's foremost experts in infection control. Or something. It's so hard to keep track of their desperate arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

But not a teacher. Apparently elementary school teachers are the world's foremost experts in infection control. Or something. It's so hard to keep track of their desperate arguments.

Or SAHMs. They're apparently experts in the superiority of DL as a learning vehicle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

There is a big difference in a small school system with small schools but MCPS is not that situation. We are already overcrowded with some schools that need significant repairs. A school of a few hundred, sure, but not when you have 1000-3000 students and staff.

We can still support businesses. We do carry out but will not eat at a restaurant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

But not a teacher. Apparently elementary school teachers are the world's foremost experts in infection control. Or something. It's so hard to keep track of their desperate arguments.

Or SAHMs. They're apparently experts in the superiority of DL as a learning vehicle.

Ahhh, yes. The "it's working better for us" crowd that goes on to say you hate your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/opinion/schools-closing-covid.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I couldn't agree more and am really disappointed with MCPS and their non-scientific "health metrics" which we will certainly never meet, meaning no in-person school for our kids this year.

This isn’t about the kids. This is a workplace safety issue. The sooner you realize that and understand that your feelings as a parent are completely irrelevant, the sooner you will understand the reality of the situation.

Why the hell would a doctor write about schools? Maybe a teacher should write about the medical workplace?

Seriously. Unless teachers can be outfitted with covid floor level ppe, no way they should be forced to teach in person.

Yet somehow daycare workers and private school teachers and Catholic school teachers and German teachers are teaching in person ...

That other employees are exploited -- likely because they lack protections afforded by strong unions -- hardly means that others should similarly be exploited.

I am a Catholic school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since early September. I do not feel exploited, nor do my colleagues in my school. Please do not presume. We are adults capable of assessing our own risks and of making our own decisions.

+100000 public school teacher who has been teaching full time in person since late August. Do NOT speak for us.

Do you have 35 kids in a classroom who change classrooms for 8 periods in an over capacity building where each teacher doesn't have their own classroom and very little cleaning?

Our school has overcrowding issues and I am a high school teacher so yes students change classes. Our district STARTED with the default of opening schools this fall and then asked "how can we make it work?". I am grateful for all of the work my district did to get creative in finding solutions to the various issues associated with re-opening schools instead of looking at the existence of issues and throwing their hands up "well, those issues exist so I guess we can't open."

So, how does that work in MCPS? You are posting about MCPS so what would that look lik there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

There is a big difference in a small school system with small schools but MCPS is not that situation. We are already overcrowded with some schools that need significant repairs. A school of a few hundred, sure, but not when you have 1000-3000 students and staff.

We can still support businesses. We do carry out but will not eat at a restaurant.

Elementary schools in MCPS are fairly small and not any more overcrowded that other areas of the country.

Yes, I think opening high schools is a bad idea, but elementary schools are a completely different situation from a risk/reward perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

There is a big difference in a small school system with small schools but MCPS is not that situation. We are already overcrowded with some schools that need significant repairs. A school of a few hundred, sure, but not when you have 1000-3000 students and staff.

We can still support businesses. We do carry out but will not eat at a restaurant.

Oh yeah, forgot the "MCPS is too big to do anything at all" line of defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elementary schools in MCPS are fairly small and not any more overcrowded that other areas of the country.

Yes, I think opening high schools is a bad idea, but elementary schools are a completely different situation from a risk/reward perspective.

FYI, MCPS' "ideal" size for an ES is 740 or so. That's way above MD Dept of Ed guidelines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is a vocal handful on these boards that clamor for school openings and quote dubious claims by people who are not pandemic experts.
We must ignore them. They are literally pushing for more deaths.

Do you also complain that people who want restaurants and other non-essential activities to stay open are pushing for more deaths?

There are so few complaints about it that I don't come across them. The crazies are all focused on schools. Nothing inside should be open except essential services. Education and entertainment are not essential in a pandemic.

OP here. I disagree. I think education is essential but not entertainment. And I believe that DL ain’t “education”. Kids need to be with their peers learning in classrooms. And kids are depressed, anxious and suicidal in greater numbers. So- not learning plus poor mental health.

For the PP who said this was just some nutty pediatrician- Fauci says the same thing, as does my children’s pediatrician in Silver Spring.

History is going to judge us harshly for how we put the burden of this pandemic on our kids’ backs. I’m not a Trumper and I used to be a huge supporter of teachers and their unions. That support is wavering.

Many of those kids would have had mental health issues regardless of school. The difference is they are home now so parents notice things more. Otherwise it probably would have gone unnoticed. My kids mental health is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what one of Biden's advisors had to say on schools. This is from Dr. Céline Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center and assistant professor at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine. Does it seem like this is how MCPS is thinking about the challenges of reopening?

If you have widespread community transmission, there may come a tipping point where you do need to go back to virtual schooling. But I think the priority is to try to keep schools open as much as possible, and to provide the resources for that to happen.

From an epidemiologic perspective, we know that the highest-risk settings are restaurants, bars, gyms, nail salons and also indoor gatherings — social gatherings and private settings.

I would consider school an essential service. Those other things are not essential services. The smarter we are about being very responsive to trends in transmission — to closing indoor restaurants sooner — the longer you’re likely to be able to keep schools open.

We know that the risk of transmission in schools is not zero, but they’re not amplifying transmission the way some of these other places are.

We need to be supporting those businesses, whether it’s the restaurant owners and the people working in those restaurants, because it is not fair that they are bearing a very heavy brunt of the economic fallout from this.

So, an infectious disease specialist. Check. Works for Biden, not Trump. Check. Thinks kids should be in school. Check. Doesn't believe schools are super spreader environments. Check. I mean this shreds most of the ignorant retorts that get tossed around on this board and on this thread. DL advocate clowns for the loss...

There is a big difference in a small school system with small schools but MCPS is not that situation. We are already overcrowded with some schools that need significant repairs. A school of a few hundred, sure, but not when you have 1000-3000 students and staff.

We can still support businesses. We do carry out but will not eat at a restaurant.

Elementary schools in MCPS are fairly small and not any more overcrowded that other areas of the country.

Yes, I think opening high schools is a bad idea, but elementary schools are a completely different situation from a risk/reward perspective.

Many have 500 kids or so. That is not fairly small by any means.

[Anonymous]

Wow some random pediatrician expressed a personal opinion in opposition to any credible public health expert. Some people only believe what they want to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is a vocal handful on these boards that clamor for school openings and quote dubious claims by people who are not pandemic experts.
We must ignore them. They are literally pushing for more deaths.

Do you also complain that people who want restaurants and other non-essential activities to stay open are pushing for more deaths?

There are so few complaints about it that I don't come across them. The crazies are all focused on schools. Nothing inside should be open except essential services. Education and entertainment are not essential in a pandemic.

OP here. I disagree. I think education is essential but not entertainment. And I believe that DL ain’t “education”. Kids need to be with their peers learning in classrooms. And kids are depressed, anxious and suicidal in greater numbers. So- not learning plus poor mental health.

For the PP who said this was just some nutty pediatrician- Fauci says the same thing, as does my children’s pediatrician in Silver Spring.

History is going to judge us harshly for how we put the burden of this pandemic on our kids’ backs. I’m not a Trumper and I used to be a huge supporter of teachers and their unions. That support is wavering.

Many of those kids would have had mental health issues regardless of school. The difference is they are home now so parents notice things more. Otherwise it probably would have gone unnoticed. My kids mental health is fine.

Your child's mental health is not fine, because she has a psychopath for a mother.

[Anonymous]

Putting small children online for 12+ months of “school” is gross. Save the children.